Luna hates the new bun

[Sirius&Luna]

Hi all,

Essay incoming!

I had two house bunnies, who were happily bonded, Luna and Sirius. Luna was the dominant bun, and was always the one who received the most grooming from Sirius etc. That said, I did used to catch her grooming him when she thought we weren’t looking. She loved him, and they did absolutely everything together, always moving around or flopping in a pair. 

Unfortunately at the beginning of May Sirius died, and we were all heartbroken. Luna was at the vet’s with him, and she saw him get sicker, but didn’t see him after he died, as we decided to bring her home early since he was too ill to share a cage with her at that stage anyway. She seemed to understand that he was very ill as he wasn’t responding to her at all the last time she saw him.

[Luna is spayed FYI]

After he died she bonded with me a lot more, and became very cuddly and followed me around a lot. I was worried that she was lonely, and looked into getting a friend for her. There are limited rescues in our area, so I got a new baby, Atlas. We have now had him for 4 weeks and he’s 12 weeks old.

He has a very similar personality to Sirius and is very sweet and friendly.

At the moment they are housed in adjoining puppy pens with a 3 inch gap between them, and they get separate time to run around the house. Luna absolutely hates Atlas. She tried to lunge at him through the gap between cages, and I have to cover the others cage with blankets when they have free roaming time or she would try and attack him. She stalks him around the cage and lunges. He is desperate to be friends with her and still goes over to her, even though she tries to attack him every time. [FYI she cannot actually reach him or attack him].

I’ve been swapping their litter trays for the last couple of weeks, but Luna doesn’t seem to be getting any less aggressive. I don’t intend to try actual bonding until he’s bigger and neutered, but is there any hope? Is it fear aggression from Luna? She seems terrified of him, but I can’t work out why, she’s never had a fight with another rabbit, and both Sirius and Atlas have been submissive and friendly towards her.

She has also withdrawn from me, and become more grumpy in general. She still binkies around the room, but she used to come when I called her name, and she won’t sit and cuddle with me anymore. 

[Mikey]

Baby bunnies cannot bond. At 12 weeks/3 months, he could also be producing a hormonal smell. Fixed rabbits will ‘feed’ off of those hormones and in turn act hormonally. You cannot bond a fixed bun to a bun who is not fixed. Its likely not that she hates him, but rather she is acting territorial because this hormonal stranger is in her home. Shes likely mad at you since you are ignoring the ‘threat’ in her home.

Keep with swapping all items (litter trays, food bowls, water bowls, all toys, ect) once a day. Another thing to try is the stuffed animal tactic. Give them both a stuffed animal and leave it in their cages for a week or two. Let them mark it, bite it, kick it, throw it, hump it, ect. Let them do whatever they want to that stuffed animal. After the week or two, swap them. Again, let them do whatever they want to the stuffed animals. Swap once a week.

[Meesh]

The new bun probably smells really strange to her… I would suggest if she is acting so aggressive to separate them completely until he is old enough to be altered, and then try to start over the bonding process again once he recovers from being altered .. you don’t want to have them aggressive with eachother like that because if something traumatic does happen to either of them, they might never bond. Make sure to keep giving her love, but maybe keep the new one in a separate room she can’t go to. This will allow you to reconnect with her a bit as well.

Good luck!

[Sirius&Luna]

I’m not trying to bond them yet, and I haven’t been putting them together physically. I’m just worried since she’s being so aggressive to his presence.

Unfortunately in our flat there isn’t really the option of keeping them in separate rooms. Does it sound like shes being territorial rather than scared? Or are they essentially the same thing?

I’ve tried the stuffed toys too, and they both mostly ignore them, so I don’t think there would be much smell on them to swap. Should I be swapping them between cages yet or not?

[Meesh]

You could physically rub the toys on the buns chins, as their smell gland things are there, which might help with that a bit… You could put the cages on opposite sides of the room so that when one is out they can choose to go near the others cage rather than it already being there… Do they both get lots of floor time to romp about?

[Mikey]

Its sounds much like territory over fear. Since they cannot reach, a scared bun would be less likely to lash out, and more likely to completely avoid. She sounds mad that her territory and home are being invaded by a strange bun (to me).

Since youre swapping items, dont worry about swapping cages. Swap cages after he has been neutered. Remember too that his scent and personality will change after he is neutered.

[Moo <3]

I would also be careful when having one of the bunnies out for play time in the room, while the other one is in their pen “watching.” Are you keeping them in the same room that Luna has always been in? You can try and move them into a room that would be new to both of them, as Luna might see the old room as “hers” and be angry that a stranger is now in her room.

Also try swapping out fleece/towels as this will probably get most of the fur/scent attached because of how much they lay on them.

[Sirius&Luna]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I’ll keep on with the swapping, and do more than just litter trays. After he’s neutered will she think he’s an entirely different bunny anyway though? So will this have been pointless?

They both get lots of free time – I tend to give Luna more since she’s bigger and Atlas can binky and run around in his pen, Luna can’t get up much speed in her pen. They both get time in the mornings and evenings, and more at the weekends, but Luna is definitely annoyed when she can see Atlas out, even though I tend to wait until she puts herself away (eg. I don’t put her away to bring him out, I wait until she’s chosen to flop in her pen anyway).

We live in a one bedroom flat, with a joint kitchen/living room, which is where they are now. For the first week we had Atlas in the bedroom, but there’s not really enough space (for him or us) for that to be a long term solution.

[Mikey]

His smell will slowly change after his neuter, so she wont see him completely differently. As his smell slowly becomes less hormonal, she will see him as the same bun, but ‘different’.

Just to note, if they dont like one another and refuse to bond, do you have a back up plan? Usually, the back up plan is keeping both in different rooms and letting them both be single buns. You mention that you dont have room for this.

[Sirius&Luna]

From what I’ve read, almost all bunnies can bond with the right time and effort… Luna is being problematic, but she has bonded before so I don’t think she’s an inherently antisocial bunny. My back up plan is to send them to a professional bonder if I fail, I’ve found someone who is relatively close to me and has good success rates.

However, I do rent my flat, so if all else fails I can always move to somewhere with at least a separate kitchen and living room… but I hope it doesn’t come to that!

[Mikey]

Just like humans, rabbits will not get along with everyone. There have been many failed bonds recorded in this forum from people who had clashing bunnies who never got along, and had to be kept separated.

[Meesh]

I think that even humans are capable of loving one another given enough time and open mindedness.

[Mikey]

Just remember that rabbits will fight to the death if they dont like one another. If youre ok with that outcome, you do you. (@Thinking all rabbits can bond, even if they hate one another and fight every time they see one another)

[Meesh]

Bonding two bunnies is NOT just throwing them together and letting them work it out. It is being there for them and helping them. If they are fighting that bad you obviously do not leave them fighting, but I do believe that two bunnies that you may think can never bond because they fight can bond, given enough time and patience. There are lots of way to help buns bond, and I am willing to bet that any cases of bunnies that are impossible to bond were not actually impossible, just more challenging and time consuming.

[Sirius&Luna]

What?? When did I ever say I would throw them together and leave them to fight to the death? I’m well aware that rabbits can fight to the death and that’s why I asked for advice after reading and following lots of bonding information.

I have them separated at all times, and was asking for tips for the future, after he’s neutered. I have been doing the pre-bonding that has been advocated and they are never put together, so I think you’re being pretty unnecessarily judgemental, based on me asking for advice.

[DanaNM]

Girls can be quite territorial! Don’t get discouraged just yet. Most buns do not like a new bun in their home (especially an upstart youngin’), but meeting in neutral space can go much differently. Plus his scent will change once he is neutered, so she might react differently.

I think your best bet once you start doing actual dates, is to opt for a large, somewhat stressful space, that is VERY neutral for the first date or several. Perhaps a pen set up at a friend’s house? With no boxes, food, or anything that they might get territorial over. The first meetings can be crucial at setting the tone. When they come nose to nose, pet both and swap scents. You can even start brushing them with the same brush, and swapping pets so they associate the other’s smell with being groomed.

You might also opt to start with the “smoosh” technique for the first date, perhaps even during a car ride, with a helper of course.

You still have a while of pre-bonding left while Atlas recovers from his neuter, so she might very well settle down once his hormones settle a bit. Also try always feeding them near each other (on opposite sides of the barrier), so they learn that the other bunny = meal time.

Also, I’ve always swapped the bunnies every two days, rather than just litter trays, once the new bun has had some time to settle in (a week or two, depending on the bunny). That way Luna will hopefully loose some track of “her” territory. She will most likely end up being top bun, but you want her to be a little unsure about that.

And be sure to still give Luna extra love! Even if that’s just spending time sitting on the floor with her. The more she can associate positive things (food, pets, playtime), with the new bunny, the better.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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