Lumps under chin

[Rae]

Maintenance and Housing
Is your bunny housed indoors or outdoors?

Indoors.

Does your bunny live with other bunnies?

In the same room but separated with very little full contact interaction.

If yes, are they bonded?

No.

If you rabbit spends time outside, are wild rabbits around?

N/A

How much exercise does your bunny get per day?

Freeroam.

How often do you clean the litter box?

Every other to every two days.

How often do you groom your bunny?

Not nearly as frequently as I should. Maybe once every two or three months?

Spay/Neuter
Is your bunny spayed/neutered?

Yes.

If so, for how long?

Twoish years.

Pooping and Diet – Very Important
What does your bunny eat normally:

A full bowl of organic spring mix – maybe a cup or two? Not sure, but he has never had weight issues. A tablespoon of Science Selective bunny pellets and unlimited Oxbow orchard grass hay.

How much hay and what type?

He has a large custom hay feeder that I normally fill once or twice a day for him – he’s been a good hay eater since I switched to orchard grass (and has been on orchard grass for 2.5/3 years of his life)

How much pellets and what type?

About a tablespoon of Science Selective Adult bunny pellets.

How much veggies and what types?

About a cup or two of organic spring mix – enough to fill his bowl.

How many treats and what types?

Oxbow banana chips, maybe a serving (two pieces) a few times a week, sometimes even less. Really just a rare treat.

Anything else not listed?

He has gotten into two things completely on accident that I stopped as soon as I found him. Junior, alfalfa based pellets – not a lot but it’s happened two or three times. And my energy drinks. He knocked over one while I was sleeping and in the morning I found him licking it out of the carpet. The tips of his ears were crusty and I have no idea how much he drank. From there on, I made sure to not leave drinks where I thought he could get to them (he’s never done this before) but since then he’s pulled some crazy stunts to get to them and has knocked them over a total of three times – one, the overnight; two, had access for under ten minutes; three, access for maybe a minute. I now try to keep them on a shelf a few inches below the ceiling, or don’t have them in the room at all. The first I had on the floor, the other two on tables.

Energy drinks were the most concerning to me. Had no changes in behavior/appetite/poop etc each time. First two incidences occured towards the beginning/middle of last month, and the last occurance was a few days ago where I had just left my drink for a minute to use the restroom.

I’ve felt utterly terrible about it and I hope you can understand I’m just a human and make mistakes. I’ve had Gus for three years – all of which I’ve drank energy drinks and he hasn’t done this up until last month. He started with knocking over my waterbottle and I think he was just doing it for fun with the Monster but ended up licking it and liking the sugar or taste.

When was the last time your bunny ate? 

About twenty minutes ago – timing around eating is the same as always. Eats most of his breakfast but leaves some to come back to within the hour and eats hay maybe every half hourish unless he is napping.

What was the last thing your bunny ate?

Hay, before that his breakfast. Appetite same as always.

When was the last time your bunny pooped? 

I believe about twenty minutes ago, if not, within the hour for sure. Still a little poop machine.

How did your bunny’s most recent poops look (round and firm, misshapen, small and hard, soft/mushy, runny, etc.) ?

Most recent completely normal in shape, size, and consistency. I have found some oddly colored a few days ago – more yellow/greenish but same size, shape, and consistency and I haven’t seen it again.

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this bunny?

Three years.

In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?

Two bumps near either side of his jawbone (under chin). Firm, but movable.

How long ago did you first notice these symptoms?

Three hours ago, at about 8pm.

Have you consulted a vet?

Calling his primary in the morning since he isn’t showing any other signs of illness or pain.

Have you started any treatment for the symptoms?

No.

Was your bunny physically ill or injured when you got them?

No.

How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?

I got a bad batch of Oxbow hay off the internet – it had some brown strands in it and he didn’t enjoy it. Noticeable decrease in hay consumption but not to a worrying extent. Got new box, cleaned old hay out of feeder a few days ago and went back to eating normal amount.

I had a moment where I felt his spine and was worried he had lost weight but he looks the exact same as he always has in his adult years and upon further inspection I believe that was just me over-worrying as every other indicator for a healthy weight was there (ribs feeling like they have a small covering layer of fat but still palpable, hip bones not sharp/jutting when in normal position, and general appearance of healthy weight).

Behavior remains the same – no lethargy, normal amount of napping/active time, same amount of interest in pets/snuggles, same amount of excitement at meal times or when I come home.

Explain your situation in detail. (Please explain what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

I believe all pertinent past information has been listed prior to this question.

As for the current situation in detail: I was petting Gus normally. He enjoys his whole head being pet – loves his cheeks and base of his ears. I was rubbing his cheeks and I felt something odd so I started feeling around more and found a small mass.

Location of mass: Under chin, beside the inner middle of his jawbone. Inner meaning closer to the throat, not closer to the cheek. It is not directly against the bone, rather extremely close but with a noticable tiny smidge of separation (I believe).

Second mass is on the other side, outer as opposed to inner, and closer to the front of his jawbone. Front meaning closer to his nose/mouth. It feels as if it is directly against bone.

Size/consistency: First mass, about a chickpea, maybe a smidge smaller. Second, a normal pea, green pea, whatever you’d like to call it. Both can be described as solid – not hard as a rock, but certainly not soft or squishy by any means. Both can be manipulated/moved gently to immediate surrounding areas.

Other: There is no hair loss, no matting, no wetness/dampness. I have not noticed him itching the area, nor grooming it any more than usual. I frequently see him sprawled out in a position that involves his chin being placed directly on the floor – like a superman position but pancaked.

He didn’t mind my inspection – reacting how he usually does when someone touches his chin which is press down but not pull away. Loved his cheeks being pet as always, showed no outright signs of pain (noises, pulling/running away, generally expressing ‘hey stop petting me there’).

Just yesterday he was chewing on a cardboard box with ease, and I caught him giving the baseboard a few nibbles for the first time in years.

I personally have noticed him being hungrier than usual – any time he hears me giving pellets to the girls he begs for food so absolutely no lack of appetite/disinterest.

He has no history of dental or general health issues whatsoever – my vet actually said he was the healthiest rabbit she had ever seen about a year ago. He has experienced one bout of stasis which just turned out to be gas.

He has interacted with the new, unbonded, unspayed, and just reaching maturity buns. Has been chased by one, not sure if there was a fight as the situation was accidental. Pens have been fortified, and I think the whole situation occurred a weekish ago. New buns have also began fighting themselves, so him getting caught up in the middle accidentally is a possibility. At this point everyone is separated and acting normally, looking normally, eating/drinking/pooping normally. No bunnies had any marks/visible injuries though I do believe I saw a tuft of fur on the ground – white, a color all three bunnies have in their coat.

I’ve read abscesses are the most common, and wonder if him getting into my energy drinks could have caused a cavity of some sort? Next best guess is he was involved in some sort of fight and developed an infection? Following that I have no idea.

I’m mostly looking for reassurance, advice, or similar personal experiences. I read some really scary stuff about abscesses on the internet and how they require surgery and even then can be fatal quite commonly. I also read tooth extractions and things can cost $1,200 which I don’t have. My car just had transmission, engine, and tire issues all at the same time which as you can probably imagine was unexpected and extremely expensive.

It’s to my knowledge that as long as he is acting, eating/drinking, pooping/peeing normally – it isn’t a medical emergency. I’m kind of holding onto that as hope while doing my absolute best to act quickly.

Attaching a really bad diagram I drew in case my location explanation isn’t all that great.

 

[Bam]

This is, as you know, concerning and needs to be checked by a vet. Getting into junior pellets or energy drink a few times could not have caused it. Rabbits can actually get caries, but not after a few exposures to sugar.

So whatever this is, you didnt cause it. His diet seems great. It’s great that he still has a good appetite for hay.

The location of the bumps does make jaw abscesses come to mind. A bad fight with deep bites could potentially result in abscesses, or the formation of hard connective-tissue scar tissue. He’s a bit too young to have really deplorable teeth, but some buns are sadly prone, even if they get the best food and eat plenty of hay. As a rule you see weight loss, though, because the bun cant chew the food very well, so the nutritional uptake becomes compromised.

A good rabbit vet will be able to assess his dental status by looking with an otoscope, if dental root disease is suspected, x-rays will confirm.

We’d be very interested in updates.

[DanaNM]

Sorry you are going through this. I agree with Bam, I doubt anything you did (or that he got into) would have caused this. One thing I wonder, is whether his hay intake may have declined a bit and you didn’t notice? I ask because my young dental abscess bun was absolutely ravenous for pellets and salad because he wasn’t eating as much hay as he should have been (he ate less hay because his teeth were hurting him, rather than low hay consumption causing bad teeth).

If it does end up being an abscess, it’s true the treatment can be expensive, but I would encourage you to do the most aggressive treatment possible from the outset to have the best chances of success (usually this is surgical removal and penicillin injections done at home). When caught early and treated aggressively they can resolve with just 1 round of treatment. Your vet may be able to work with you on costs, or you could look into Care Credit.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Rae]

Thank you both for the responses.

I called his primary vet the moment they opened and lucked out – someone canceled and we were able to take their spot.

The vet stated he wasn’t worried about an abscess because they are typically only occuring in older rabbits, he said about five years and up. He also stated that Gus looked, felt, and sounded healthy outside of the lumps.

Final diagnosis was an infection caused by external poking, like hay or if he had possibly gotten bitten by one of the girls. He is currently on antibiotics twice a day for 7-10 days.

He didn’t run any tests, but did look at his teeth and do a general exam so I believe he ruled out dental issues. I was told that in theory, as long as they are correct in their diagnosis, he will be totally fine with a round or two of antibiotics. Fingers crossed they are correct, but I feel we’re at least somewhat out of the woods and Gus is still a happy little bunny guy.

Just for purposes of future reference for people, I’m going to try and come back to update once the antibiotics are done in order to confirm or deny everything. Last night when I was frantically searching the internet I found there aren’t a lot of posts on lumps/bumps, just basic information pages. And the posts that did exist were typically saddening. If Gus ends up being totally fine, I’d like to be at least one happy ending story for anyone who ends up in my situation in the future.

[Rae]

Sorry to spam, but I just felt under Gus’ chin and the lumps have quite literally doubled in size. The chickpea one is about half a marble now. Is this a common thing for infections? Is it just a matter of he’s only had one day of antibiotics so they aren’t working yet and the infection is just progressing naturally?

Worried the vet might have made the wrong diagnosis now. I mean they doubled in 24 hours.

[Bam]

The lumps are abscesses, (rabbits are prone to abscesses and they can form practically anywhere on the rabbit’s body following an injury, f ex a bite or a piece of hay or a splinter that has broken the skin), and they can grow very quickly. Hopefully they’ll stop growing now thanks to the antibiotics. If not, they will probably need to be opened and cleaned out.

[DanaNM]

And infection caused by poking is by definition an abscess. Usually they do need to be cleaned out because the capsule wall is very difficult for the antibiotics to penetrate. I would give your vet the update about it growing in size.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Rae]

Alright – I hope I didn’t sound dumb.

The vet distinctly told me they were not abscesses, however in hindsight pocket of infection = abscess seems pretty straight-forward to me. Maybe he just meant to say he was sure they weren’t caused by dental problems since he is a younger bunny.

Either way I called the vet and they said to do warm compresses twice daily and if there isn’t improvement within 48 hours to call back and most likely schedule a surgery. They knew that rabbits don’t have the ability to turn the pus into liquid, and said the compresses should help the antibiotics work a little better against that.

I do think the abscess feels smaller than it did last night, and I couldn’t find the second one this morning. Even with the first one’s lessening, it still isn’t down to its original size – just not quite twice as big anymore.

I don’t know if it could be blamed for the lack of betterment, but, his first dose yesterday morning didn’t entirely make it in his mouth as he jerked away at the last second. He got about 70%, then ran away and gave me “the butt”. He was not a happy camper. The second dose of the day is when I noticed the increase in size, and we had no issues with medicine. This morning he actually actively wanted the medicine, so I think he was just upset over the whole vet ordeal yesterday morning.

I’ll keep you guys posted on everything, and if we have to pursue another form of treatment I plan on taking your suggestion Dana and advocating for the most aggressive type – my vet is very into gentle approaches and not causing any unneeded stress.

[Bam]

You didnt sound dumb.

I think your vet must have meant that these are not dental/ tooth root abscesses. That is of course very good and makes the prognosis a lot better!

Oral antibiotics as a rule need 72 hours to take full effect. You might see improvement before that, and sometimes you dont see improvement until after 5-7 days. I’m glad you contacted your vet again about this. They seem to be good vets! Rabbit abscesses often have to be lanced and emptied, and then the bun caretaker can distribute antibiotics or manukka honey daily, directly into the abscess cavity, while it slowly heals up from the inside and out.

 

 

[DanaNM]

You didn’t sound dumb at all! And I agree with Bam that he prob meant it wasn’t a dental abscess that came from the bone (which are notoriously hard to cure). One of my buns once got a small abscess on her foot, likely from being poked by a piece of hay, and it healed up really easily after being cleaned out and bandaged, without even needing antibiotics. So all abscesses are not created equally!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Rae]

Gus update:

TLDR: He’s getting better but slowly, and I’ve made some errors along the way.

Day seven of antibiotics. Day five of warm compresses, though only the last two days have been successful.

Smaller abscess is definitely gone, haven’t felt it for days.

Bigger abscess is down to its original chickpea size/right around there. It’s been steadily decreasing but only by an amount so tiny, I’ve questioned if I was just imagining it. This is the most progress it has made, and it happened overnight.

Compresses have been hard because they aren’t a simple “get in, get out” treatment like giving medicine, and I have quite literally never held Gus.

Gus is like a son to me, and I am the epitome of a “this is my first child and I think everything can kill them” parent. If he is freaking out – I’m freaking out. Because of this, my ex always did the picking up and holding; I always did the trimming and medicine giving.

Gus and I have been on our own for three months – I still don’t know how in the world to manhandle him. I’ve tried bun-ritoing, I’ve tried quickly picking him up. Every time he instantly thrashes wildly, and I let him go because I’m worried I’ll hurt him.

As one could guess, he has been a less than willing recipient of a warm washcloth in a plastic bag being pressed against his chin. After numerous failed attempts, I found a method that works.

He gets really lost in headpats – will close his eyes, press his chin to the ground and his front legs will slowly slide out from under him. Well, I threw that washcloth on the ground and led him to it, then pet him for ten minutes. If he doesn’t fully press his chin to the floor, I’ll slowly grab the compress and hold it against him. It has to be under him though, if I bring it in from the side he will absolutely run away from me.

I’ve had to get creative with his meds, too. He’s a smart bunny, after a time or two of one idea he catches on and instead of me tricking him – he’s tricking me. Just this morning he got crafty, thwarting my usual piece of banana chip in tip of syringe method. I blinked and he had stolen the chip and jerked to the side – cue a stream of antibiotics flying across the floor and a bunny running away happily.

I previously stated I thought he might have found the meds weren’t so bad because he grabbed the syringe – I am now 100% convinced he was trying to take it away from me and destroy it. Absolutely not like one of those stasis meds he was on where I could just put it in front of his snoot and he would instantly take it.

[Rae]

Also, sorry again for the double post but I just wanted to say a great big thank you!

Hearing not all abscesses are created equally really made me feel a whole lot better, and earlier statements about what he got into probably not being the cause relieved so much guilt I’ve been carrying for weeks.

Overall I am once more extremely grateful for you guys always being here to support Gus and I in our toughest moments, especially even after I make mistakes that seem pretty major.

I’m hoping Gus will continue getting better with his current course of treatment, but am also remaining realistic in the sense that I’m listening to your feedback about how these abscesses tend to need surgical intervention. I consider him and I to be lucky he’s experiencing what seems to be the lesser end of something that can certainly be quite terrible.

Fingers crossed for a happy ending to this thread!

[Bam]

Fingers very much crossed! It’s wonderful that you’ve seen so much improvement!

Gus does seem like a very smart bun 😃

[LBJ10]

It does sound like he is improving. Yes, not all abscesses are equal. The ones that are in the bone are the real nasty ones that you hear horror stories about. If it’s an abscess that formed because of a wound, then those tend to heal more easily. Keep up the good work! His 2nd abscess may just need more time (longer course of antibiotics).

Since you’re having a hard time, I will suggest a method that worked for me. I basically “sit” on them. I do this by sitting on my knees and putting bunny between my legs. I make sure to tuck my feet in so they can’t squirm backwards. Then it’s just a matter of getting the meds into their mouth. With an extra hand now, you can use hold his head while sticking the syringe in his mouth.

[jerseygirl]

I love the name Gus!

It sounds like your treatment is working if one of the lumps has now disappeared.

i just wanted to suggest some other possibilities for lumps in this area. Salivary glands and scent glands, although I do not know specifically where the chin scent glands are located.
Either way, compress and antibiotics could help resolve issues with either of those glands.

[Author]

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