LUEY : Unexplained Biting!

[Deleted User]

Hello Ladies

I thought Luey was doing so well … his biting had subsided considerably to the point where he could sit by me and have his pets with no biting at all.  Well, he has suddenly taken a dislike to me and his habit is probably worse now than before.  Nothing has changed with his routine, same diet, no new faces in the household etc, etc.

Last Saturday night he was with me and daughter in loungeroom sitting with us, just generally doing his thing.  I left the room but when I came back to the tv room he was behind the chair.  I noticed he had done a heap of poops so I started picked them up.  Next thing he came charging out from behind the chair and lunged at my hand and bit me.  He has this thing about me cleaning up his poops, but as I thought he would not see me I picked them up anyways.  Not a good idea I know.  Next thing he was attacking my slippers and every time I went to take a step he would lunge in my way and attack again.  I put him away in his pen and there he stayed for the night and the rest of the weekend!

I keep on saying one more chance otherwise you Luey boy are out on the kerb! …. (about the 3rd time I have said this now).  OK, so I thought yes another chance …. I was sitting with him in his run area .. he was ok me being there having his head petted and chin stroked whilst he was sitting in his littertray.  I can guess when he has had enough as he puts his head up then I stop touching him.  I started reading some rubbish I took in with me hoping he might be interested for more attention.  Should have known … he approached my side and took a chunk out of my madriff (teeth marks still visible (its Wed now) and bit my hand.  SOD him!

I am seriously thinking of taking him back to the lady I rescued him from.  This is very unpleasant … not the kind of bunny I had hoped for.  My daughter will not go near him at all.  She is scared he will bite her too.

I know some rescued bunnies have some awful backgrounds … not sure about Luey’s though … obviously not a very nice one I suppose.

[vanessa.b]

Your Luey sounds like my Barney. He too is very territorial and does not like me to pick up his poos or mop up wee or touch his straw in his presence. Yes I am intimidated by him even tho he can sit in the palm of my hand. Interestingly he is fine with my daughter and has NEVER had a go at her. Barney is better now he is castrated – I assume Luey is, if not get him done – he doesn’t attack with no reason but I have to be careful when touching ‘his stuff’ when he is nearby. He will lightly nip my my hand after sniffing it but it is no longer a full blown assault. I have been trawling the web for info but really it comes down to you and your bun. I did read an interesting piece which suggested not reacting and certainly not reprimanding when bitten because it maybe that the bun is looking for a response from you. This is not easy I know but if you don’t react the bun may get bored and try to get your attention another way. You could always wear gloves in a situation that could provoke him eg poo collecting. The piece also suggested talking to hom in a nice friendly voice as he rushes to attack you! I would also suggest letting Luey initiate petting, let him come to you for attention he may feel happier if any interaction is on his terms. I know however how distressing this can be – my hubby would be happy to see Barney go but I am damned if I give up on him. I wish you luck with him, is there an animal behaviourist you could approach. Maybe another rabbit with him may mellow him, my Barney has a hutchmate and they do get on really well. You would have to initiate bonding thought away from your home – do you have rabbit rescue centres near you that could do this?

[Deleted User]

Luey is fixed … I rescued him from a breeder (she was dumped with Luey by previous owners).  I have had him for three months.  I generally tend to let him come to me … its so frustrating … sometimes (not very often now) he can be very affectionate and others like an ANGRY ant!

I took him on as I had previously lost my dwarf lop Lily .. she was a treasure and not a mean bone in her body.  Luey is the dead opposite.  He is very territorial and if I am cleaning him out I have to put him in the other pen … even when I am cleaning his area he is prancing up and down the pen to get to his own area, biting the bars and pushing at the pen.

My other bunny, Sprinkles is with my friend … I let her go there because I wanted to concentrate on Luey.  Luey hated Sprinkles and there was forever a poop war going on between them both.  I had them separated of course and many a time I was caught in a spraying battle.  Sprinkles is my darling girl … very affectionate and has never bitten me.

Luey even hates my guinea pigs … has had a go at one through the pen bars … Monster him!

I am at my wits end and basically I have lost interest in him.  I know that sounds god awful but I have tried to do the right thing by him …not that he realises that of course!  I would never hurt him but tell him that. LOL.  I will leave him be for a while and try again when I’m over this god forsaken cold and have a bit more patience.  I am not scared of Luey just like "What am I doing wrong" and frustrated more with myself than anything.

I hope all goes well with your bunny boy!

[vanessa.b]

Hi, have just seen some of your other threads and realise you already have another bun. Is completely separating them an option? I wonder if he is stressed out by her presence? It may be that you have to accept Luey for how he is and that he might never be the rabbit you want him to be. Only you know if you can live with that and make allowances for his behaviour and protect yourself. I can understand totally how you feel about him and how hard it is to keep trying. Has he been checked by a vet for an underlying cause for his behaviour?

Barney is my daughter’s rabbit so whilst he is fine with her I have to accept him for his little foibles. Herbie our other bun also prefers Louise so I guess I just give something off that makes me less attractive to rabbits than Louise. Barney is a mini lop that we bought from a breeder at 12 weeks who had decided not to keep him for showing – I wonder if he was already showing his bolshy side then. He didn’t start attacking me for a couple of weeks later but he was incredibly fired up with hormones at this point so I guess this may have triggered him off. I hope in time that he becomes less stroppy as he is still very young.

I had a cat for 17 years which would not give me the time of day. This was sad but I had to laught about and accept his bloody mindedness and attitude to me. He was very intelligent and I did read that very smart buns can be aggressive out of frustration/boredom. Hence the room where the rabbits run is full of cardboard boxes, tubes baskets etc etc (husband not thrilled). Has Luey got plenty of distractions?

So hope that Luey sees the error of his ways.
Vanessa.

[Deleted User]

Hi Vanessa

Thank you for your replies …. it gives me a bit more insight into Luey’s madness! LOL.

Luey has plenty of things to keep him occupied and when I am cleaning him out he has the run of another  pen, plus his when I have finished.  He is a funny creature and I probably will never understand his ways … but I can hear what you are saying. 

I believe the previous owners did not want him any more because of his biting problems and he was outside in a hutch so probably did not get much interaction with others.  He is 2 years old. 

Having said all this, I did have him out with me in the loungeroom last night and he was ok (no biting that is!).  I basically ignored him, but he did come over to me several times for a sniff and a nose poke but I just let him be and do his own thing.  But I need to get another barrier to block off the area to my tv, stereo etc.  I had to shoo him out a few times and doing that he pooped like mad … but I left the poops and did not pick them up in case he started getting angry with me!

My other bunny, Sprinkles will be staying with my friend for the time being …it was just too hard having too stubborn, pooping and spraying bunnies … the cleaning up was enormous.  I guess sometimes I have better things to do than clean up all night long.  Sprinkles and my bun Lily who died were kinda bonded … well it was getting there.

Your daughter certainly has a way with animals … which is great!  Well, maybe not for you as it is nice to have a pet that you can call Mine.  I have two guinea pigs as well …. one is mine and the other is daughter’s.  I love piggies too!

Thanks Again.

[BinkyBunny]

Sounds like Luey is crazy territorial!  I am guessing the whole sitting near his cage, using gloves and offering treats didn’t work.

Does he seem to mark more in areas that Sprinkles used to go?   I know Sprinkles was a bit of a stubborn messy bunny.  Also, how long has Sprinkles been at your friend’s house?   Do you visit Sprinkles and come back with her scent?

If you think this could be scent related (left over Sprinkles) it might be a good idea to really wash the place as best you can to get out as much of Sprinkles scent as you can.

How many hours out does he get out of his pen? 

What do you usually do right now when he usually lunges and/or bites. 

Also, are his bites always skin breaking or does he offer a warning nip?

[Deleted User]

Sprinkles has been out of the house for nearly 3 months … I visit her maybe once a week …  I really don’t think it is her scent, but maybe it could be the piggies’ scents as I have two of those.  I will again clean the floor area just in case it could be Sprinkles.

I did the treat/sitting by his cage …maybe I’ll have to start with that again and see how he progresses once more.  He was ok with me sitting by his cage and giving  him treats (what bunny would not be!).

When Luey bites he bites (no messing about with him!).  He gave me an awful bite last week and bruised my little roll of fat around my madriff.  Absolutely no warning nips!  When I was getting up he bit my hand.  That hurt … I locked him back in his pen and there he stayed all weekend.

He has two pens to run through so the area is quite a good size.  I let him in those when I get home from work and he has that run all weekend.  Sometimes I let him roam in the loungeroom with me, like last night.  He was ok last night.  He is such a cute thing but can be so nasty when he wants to be. 

I don’t approach him now, just let him come to me … he does like a head/cheek pat through his pen bars with me babbling on though, so maybe I’ll have to gain more trust from him by sitting by the pen and doing those sorts of things he likes.

He generally poops when he seems a bit angry with me, like if he is not supposed to be near the tv/stereo and I shoo him away or like if I go to pick up his stray poops in the loungeroom he circles me and does more poops and this is when he attacks my slippers or my hand whichever is easier to bite.

I don’t want to give up on him … as I know he could be a great lil guy to have around.

Perserverance!  I know!

Dawn  xx

[BinkyBunny]

Owch. That bite on the madriff (or muffin top as my best friend calls it. HAHAHA), must have been painful. What a little bugger!

Some people have found success with gently pushing down on their bunnies head (to show dominance), but I know I have found that that can also cause further mistrust and aggression. However, some people have experienced just the opposite. So you could take a chance and try that technique. If that makes things worse you could go back and try and do the whole sit by the cage and treat thing. OF course he will like that, but that’s the point, that it will become such a habit for him to relate to you that way that he would stop lunging. How long did you try that for?

[Gravehearted]

how distressing it can be to put in so much time and energy only to have him bite you. aggressive buns like that often have abuse or neglect in their backgrounds. but don’t lose heart, i know a bunny who used to attack EVERYONE and was very angry and mean. a year later, he was a total lovebug who loves to sit on his dad’s shoulder.

rabbit.org has some really good articles on working with aggressive rabbits. I especially like this one and the section on rabbits who run with wolves : http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/aggression.html

[Deleted User]

I sat by his cage for about a week with the treats/cheeky rubs and have followed through with the hand on the head.  He did not like my hand on his head and would arch his head up to push my hand out the way.  I’ve given that one a miss!

I am going to start again with him and try from scratch as you suggested.  I think it is the only way with Luey … small steps, one at a time.

Thanks for all your suggestions and advice Ladies as Always!

I’ll check out the website for aggressive bunnies … Maybe that has some more ideas.       Dawn x

[BinkyBunny]

I like that article too that Gravehearted posted. Let me know how it goes. I know it’ll take time,and some days you’ll have progress, while others may seem like he’s digressed. Keep it up and keep us posted to see if over time it helps.

My fingers and toes are crossed for you Dawn!

[poopy]

Sounds like he’s the alpha male….which I haven’t had much experience with. The only thing I can think of is do you know any rescue organization nearby that keeps a bunch of bunnies in a herd? There is one I know of near me where like 50 fixed bunnies are in a herd in the rescue center. If you let Luey hang out in a situation like that for a couple weeks (where there are social rules and structure) maybe that would help socialize him and teach him etiquette.

[Gravehearted]

I would not recommend putting him in a stressful group situation, he needs to feel like he is somewhere safe with people who care for him.

[vanessa.b]

Hi Dawn,
How are you and Luey, have been thinking about you.

Thought I had turned a corner with Barney, he had not nipped me for a couple of days but then I took him to the vets for a check up as he is not willing to eat his poos. Little love obviously holds this against me and has become bolshy again. He is so territorial with me but seems fine with all others. I am always nervous tho when he is around new people, I feel I can’t trust him. My parents are coming to house/cat/rabbit sit whilst we are on our hols so I pray he behaves.

Last few days both rabbits have been a lot more affectionate, I assume this is due to the petering out of the hormones after castration 4 weeks ago. This may be a daft question but are you sure Luey is fully castrated? Could it be possible that one of his testicles was not descended and not removed? I have known this to happen in horses, not sure about rabbits.

I so hope that you and Luey work it out. perhaps he has to feel ultra secure before he can fully relax.
With best wishes,
Vanessa.

[BinkyBunny]

Dawn, I’ve been thinking about you too. Hope things are going okay with Luey, though I know it takes time. But you’ve been through a lot with Sprinkley Sprinkles, and the passing of your other bunny. I wish for you to have a sweet tidy healthy bunny! I’m sending over all the best wishes vibes I can muster!

Vanessa.b – My bunnies can be nervous around new people too. I always have friends or family offer healthy treats, like mint and rosemary when they greet my bunnies. This way it not only helps prevent any negative reaction from my bunnies, but it helps my bunnies learn to trust new people, and therefore become a bit more sociable with others.

[Deleted User]

Hello Ladies

Thank you for your support as always.  Luey has been ok of late, with only one biting incident, which I guess was not his fault.  My friend thought it was a good idea to pick him up (bad move!) and later in the evening I copped a biting on my finger!  Other than that, he has been pretty good.  I have been sitting by his cage, just talking to him and he has been keen for a nose pat through the pen bars.  He loves that and I can even rub his cheek.  He is putting his head down so I guess he is happy with me petting him.  I have had him out with me in the loungeroom (only when myself and daughter around) as he does not take kindly to other people (my friend in particular I guess now) and will hide under the couch.

Luey is happy to sit with me on the floor when he is out.  He will put his front paws on my lap while I pet his head … that is so cute to see!

Sprinkles is doing fine too …. but geez I miss her, especially her nature … being such a lovable and people friendly bunny.

I hope all good continues with Luey which I am confident will be the case.  But no doubt I will be back here if not!   🙂

[Gravehearted]

ooo I’m really happy to hear things have been improving and that all the time and energy you’re putting in with Luey is paying off!

[BinkyBunny]

Oh, good, well, I’m keeping my fingers and toes crossed that continued patience will pay off. And if it does, don’t disappear! You’ll be a bunny expert at that point and can help others who may deal with the same thing. Plus, what would I do without my favorite Aussie around!

[Author]

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