Looking for advice on a trio bond that we’ve been working on for a year

[pinkiemarie]

Hi! I’m bonding a trio where my 2 neutered males are already bonded and I’m trying to work in my spayed female. I’m well aware that a trio is difficult…it’s been a year and we’re not there yet lol!  

My little male is quite aggressive actually that has caused a lot of setbacks. My bigger male is an angel but can’t go in the bathtub because he freaks out and this isn’t worth breaking his back over. I heavily resisted 2 bunny dates but finally relented because little man gets jealous when his brother tries to cuddle Clover. I did a couple of tub dates with the difficult two lately and did feel like there was some success but ultimately I felt like it led to them being more aggressive the next few days. Will try again if they get worse though.

Today I had my big male in a pen with me and the lady bun in the kitchen. They settled in next to each other voluntarily while I petted them. After about 8 minutes lady bun got annoyed and nipped man bun ripping out hair. I always stop this so it doesn’t escalate. Man bun only gives love nibbles for what it’s worth. Anyhow she ripped out hair which caused him to pee on the floor then try to cuddle up again. She behaved for a while then nipped again, pulling out fur again. Any ideas why this is happening? What I can do about it? I press her head down to make her let go. Is that wrong? After the date they plopped down and mirrored each other (link to pix below).

I’m also really open to advice about little man (the aggressive 2 pound Joe Pesci) and lady bun. He has calmed down some but last summer he broke into where she was playing to antagonize her and she almost killed him. We now have this Panama canal bunny gate system because he’s too small to be trusted. He’s not afraid of her and doesn’t mind antagonizing her but our first time in the tub 2 weeks ago he set his little head on top of her for about 30 seconds. They were both really agitated for a couple days after though. Their last date 2 days ago went well but I physically blocked her from being able to nip him as she won’t bite me.

Here are a couple of pix from right after today’s date which involved the gray bunny losing some fur. I don’t think this is a lost cause but I don’t know what i need to do to move it forward! Fwiw they live next to each other and go in each other’s houses daily and use the same litter boxes. https://m.imgur.com/a/vEcW2Fg

[DanaNM]

Hi there, welcome 🙂

So it sounds like you are working with the easier two currently?

With the long time you’ve been working with them I am a little concerned with how aggressive the little male is still acting. Not saying it’s impossible, but you don’t want to break your current bond in the process. And some buns just aren’t worth the stress.

That said, have you done the majority of dating in the same location(s)? About how many sessions have you done, and how regular are they?

Have you tried any stressing techniques? Car rides can be especially helpful with buns that just try to fight immediately. I have also had a lot of success with trying completely new spaces. Very large spaces have always worked better for me than very small ones.

Sorry for all the questions! With a bit more info on what you’ve tried so far I can hopefully give some ideas.

 

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[pinkiemarie]

I’m actually working more with the tougher two, yesterday just happened to be date night for the easier two. We also occasionally do group dates still. We do a date of some kind almost every day but sometimes Clover gets grumpy and just needs a day or two off. The only stress bonding we’ve done is the bathtub which helped some but then Clover was in a terrible mood for several days after. It seemed to help the little one’s attitude towards her though and his aggression levels. I haven’t had great luck in larger spaces but I’ve never tried a larger space with just two bunnies so I may give it another shot. Frankly my small rabbit is kind if crazy. He was one of three in the litter and I took him because my friend wasn’t sure if she wanted a weird one. As a baby he would run off and investigate while the two other buns huddled together acting like bunnies 🙂 I have cats so I was ok with taking one that would not be terrified or afraid if it has to defend itself.

My two boys don’t seem to be losing their bond but that’s the exact reason it took me to long to decide to go ahead with separate dates. Those two were love at first sight so they need to stay together 🙂

[DanaNM]

OK this is helpful. I would try a car ride! Get a helper and a plastic tub. Fill the tub with a fluffy hay layer. Have the helper drive, get the car running and ready to go. Plop the buns in the bin and take them for a drive. You sit in the back seat and stop any biting. You can pet them if needed. I would do like some 10-20 min car rides a few days in a row. See how they do and make sure no one is getting too stressed. Putting the tub on the washing machine when it’s running can work too. Really really focus on ending dates on a positive note (even if it’s ignoring each other, or you smooshing them together petting them). You don’t want them to figure out that if they fight they get to end the date.

Then try doing a car ride, followed by a short session in the regular bonding space. Some people even like to do a stress-sandwich where the date starts and ends with a car ride. I don’t really like stressing my rabbits too much, but it really can help when you have rabbits that just want to fight. However, stressing doesn’t help much when the aggressor doesn’t really react to the stress.

I also suspect that because you’ve been working with them so long that your neutral space isn’t too neutral anymore. I know it’s hard with all the lock downs, but if you have a friend with a garage or backyard that you could safely use, you might find a completely new space is helpful.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[pinkiemarie]

Haha I think at this point since I never leave the house I’m more afraid if rhd than covid! My understanding is that they now think it’s spreading in the wild in North America via birds. It’s been confirmed in neighboring states and provinces so outside is a no go for us. But I think I could drive them to my sister’s house and do the date there. You’re totally right that the kitchen might not seem neutral anymore even if they’re only there on dates. I think I’ll need to get a bigger hamper because I actually did try putting them in a laundry basket at one point and it was all freaking out and escape attempts lol. It sounds like you’ve done a fair bit of bonding. Do you think that driving over there in their carriers then doing the date is enough since they’ve never been there before, or do they really need the car ride together?

[DanaNM]

Being in side by side carriers doesn’t really have the same effect as them being able to snuggle together. Once you know they don’t fight in the car, you can put them in a carrier together in the car, but I usually don’t like to do that until I know they aren’t going to fight. Breaking up a fight in a carrier is much harder than in a bin! I usually just repurpose the rubbermaid bin I store hay in. 🙂

And oh man, RHD is so scary. 🙁 What state are you in?

And you could totally try a drive to a new location and then a date there. I was just thinking with the history of fighting might be good to do a few stress sessions in a row before then trying a new space. My first pair would fight on sight and doing several days of short car rides really helped break that cycle.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[pinkiemarie]

We’re in MT and now that I think about it I actually haven’t heard of it in Idaho but WA and BC are close enough! I do have a huge Rubbermaid bin for hay but I keep an entire bale in it so it’s tough to empty out. My sister might actually have something I can put them into in addition to a house I can borrow though.

[Author]

Messages