Liver Torsion

[BakingBunny]

Hello, I was wondering if anyone had experience with Liver Torsion in bunnies?

So here’s what happened (sorry in advance for the length):

Venti was feeling pumped yesterday all morning. When I called her for breakfast she was on a bed. She isn’t supposed to be because I know she has back pain and had to buy stairs so she can get onto MY bed and my bed only. Anyway, she jumped off, which I try to avoid happening as much as I can. It wasn’t anything serious, just looked like a normal bunny jumping off a bed onto hard wood (so a little slippery). I gave her breakfast and she started eating so walked away like usual. When I came back maybe 15-20 minutes later she didn’t finish her breakfast. That’s when I thought “uh oh, what happened?” She still accepted treats and goodies. But she didn’t want her critical care. As the day goes on she goes up and down, wanting treats then refusing them. She also arched her back a lot which is why I figured her back was hurting her, that’s what she usually does when it is. So after awhile of trying to get her to eat yet still hearing gut sounds I took her to the emergency vet. They told me it seems like her lower spine hurts when they touch it. But then they mentioned “Liver Torsion” as a possibility. They wanted X-Rays and Bloodwork and many meds which would add up to $1,000. I told them I just need severe pain meds cause the ones I have hadn’t helped her (Meloxicam and Gabapentin). So they gave me buprenorphine, which she’s has been on once before for her back. She felt better yesterday night after I gave it to her. Excited for dinner and hay toppers. Today, she’s the same, excited for food like usual. Once in a while I see her arch her back. But that’s to be expected with some back pain.

Now, I’m wondering if it’s really possible she does have liver torsion and I’m just masking her pain. Do they go down and way up that drastically if they do? The vet got me all worried about it.

Thanks you for reading through my long post. I would appreciate any ideas or experiences.

[DanaNM]

I think I would follow up with your normal vet as soon as you can. Emergency vets can be a lot more expensive for everything relative to a regular vet.

I’m not sure of her full history, but if you suspect a back injury I would personally want Xrays to see what was happening. Back arching can be a symptom of liver issues. Your normal vet may be able to work with you more on which tests to prioritize and to see if they really think liver torsion is a possibility. It is relatively common and prognosis is good if it’s treated early on, but if left untreated the lob that is torted can rupture… and prognosis is much worse after that happens. I know of a shelter bunny who had it and had been acting withdrawn (which everyone thought was just his personality). Turns out he had liver torsion! He had the surgery and made a full recovery.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BakingBunny]

That’s the thing, she’s isn’t acting different personality wise. This morning she was binkying, eating, and pooping. I’m wondering if she’d be able to do that is she had liver torsion. I’m not sure how it would work. Is it an up and down type of situation or do bunnies generally stay down when they have it?

[DanaNM]

Hmm, yeah that is odd. Did the vet mention a specific symptom that made them suspect torsion? Intermittent food refusal and back arching makes me think of something like gas pain, which can come and go.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BakingBunny]

She definitely has a lot of bubbles. I’ve been giving her gas drops. The vet just said maybe liver torsion because she seemed uncomfortable/sick, yet her stomach was soft and bubbly with no GI stasis and she didn’t wanna eat. That’s why I figured she was in pain cause she’d want to eat then not want to. Almost like she ate and went “ow” and didn’t wanna eat anymore. Also, after the strong pain meds she starting eating and pooping. Just showing small signs of pain here and there. She’s more awake and binkying in the morning cause the pain meds make her sleepy. I’m just not sure how a bunny with liver torsion would generally act. I’m gonna give her primary vet a call tomorrow as well and see what they think.

[DanaNM]

Yeah… I think following up with her regular vet is a good idea. Keep us posted!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BakingBunny]

Hello, so her normal vet called me back. He said she definitely doesn’t have Liver Torsion because she would be in way too much pain to run around or Binky. He agrees with me that she probably hurt herself and any type of pain will stop a bunny from eating. So that’s a big relief for me. Hopefully my little bun will get better soon. I’ll keep you updated if anything else happens. So far, she’s on her way to health. Thank you for the advice! Calling her normal vet put me at ease.

[DanaNM]

That’s great! And thank you for the update! Did your vet recommend restricting her space at all?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BakingBunny]

He recommended keeping her on Meloxicam as a pain manager. He said I could give her around 0.75cc a day if I’d like and up to 2cc if she’s really in pain. Other than that he didn’t really mention anything about confinement. I’ve kept her confined for back pain before and it always comes back. She HATES being confined even to one room so I hate to do it to her if it doesn’t really help long term. She’s an 8 1/2 pound bun so she ain’t small. I confined her to my room yesterday and she seems to be doing better. She digs on my door for a long time when I do that though.

[Bam]

If this is back pain  not a fracture or a torn ligament, she will benefit from moderate exercise. Meloxicam can be very effective for pain management long-term. As a rule you start with a somewhat high dose, after 1-2 weeks when the acute inflammation has been adequately subdued, you can often lower the dose somewhat.

It’s good to give Pepcid (famotidine) together with long-term meloxicam, to protect the stomach lining. You can ask your regular vet about this.

[BakingBunny]

I really don’t think it’s something serious like a fracture. She’s basically back to herself now. Getting Venti to exercise is not the easiest. She’s definitely more on the lazy side. But she runs around in the morning before breakfast and at night before dinner. Basically food gets her up and running. I‘ll ask her vet about Pepcid as well. Thank you.

[Bam]

I dont think it’s a fracture either, she seems way to active. I just meant that fractures and torn ligaments as a rule call for a few weeks’ cage rest, whereas with age-related changes like arthrosis, cage rest will not make it better.

Also I meant to say 1-2 weeks in my previous post, not 12 weeks 😖 I’ve corrected it now.

[BakingBunny]

Haha no worries I knew you meant 1-2 weeks. The vet says it’s because she’s so big and a tad bit chunky (not unhealthily so) that her muscles and bones are sensitive. She’s a Flemish giant and harlequin mix. She’s only 2 1/2 years old. I do think her size gets to her. Do you know of any over the counter joint relief that is safe for bunnies?

[Bam]

There are various joint-supplements and antioxidants like curcumin, but meloxican remains the best anti-inflammatory for rabbits. You might be able to experimentally work out a working combo of otc supplements plus a low dose of meloxicam (and possibly gabapentin for flare-ups), but which individual responds well to what is very much about trial and error/success.

It seems highly reasonable that her size is at the root of the problem here. Really big dogs tend to get similar problems, some before they’ve even reached adulthood.

[BakingBunny]

Sounds like a plan. It’s gonna take some work to find out which ones are safe for her and which ones work. There are so few things designed for pet rabbits it’s tough. Hopefully we can find something out that helps her long term along with the Meloxicam.

[DanaNM]

I give my buns the Oxbow joint support treats and they seem to help a bit. Sherwood also makes one, but my buns don’t like it as much. I’ve also tried Myristol with good results in my large bun, Bertha, when she was having some age-related mobility issues. With her my vet really wanted her on the lean side to ease the strain on her joints.

You also might look into acupuncture for her, I’ve heard very good things about it for buns with back and joint issues.

Recently with Bun Jovi’s arthritis I’ve been using this light therapy device called Luma Soothe. I can’t tell if it’s actually working, but he seems to really enjoy the treatments and it provides some warming, so I figure at least it’s an enjoyable experience for him.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BakingBunny]

Thank you! I’ll definitely look into those. I do currently give her the oxbow joint supposed she loves those. The Luma Soothe sounds interesting and I’ll look into it for sure.

[Author]

Messages