Little help with bonding

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This topic has 32sd replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 10 months ago by sarahthegemini.

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- 09/11/2017 at 8:08 AM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  Hello everyone I have two rabbits. I bought my male Tuta on February 2016. And 15 days ago i adopted a girl called Debela. They said that she is two years old. And we really have bonding troubles.
  
  To introduce Tuta:
  
  He was only 45 days old when he arrived. He was so small. When he was 6 moths old, i bought him a girl. They bonded immediately. But the little girl was so sick, so she died after two months. Tuta was really sad, and depressed. We got over it, so i decided it was time to find him a new wife. But he want accept her.
  
  We tried neutral territory, their cages are next to each other. I tried to scare them with water, or with vacuum cleaner, but they continued fighting… Whole bathroom was covered in fur… I tried with food but they both love too eat, so they see each other like a threat…
  
  Can you give me some advice?
- 09/11/2017 at 1:16 PM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  Just to say that he is sprayed, an she is too.
- 09/11/2017 at 1:19 PM
  Bam
  Moderator
  16966 posts
  I think you need to take a time out. The new girl might need more time to settle in in her new home. She probably feels very insecure now when she’s in a new place, and Tuta seems to regard her as an intruder. In order for bonding to be successful, both rabbits need to be spayed and neutered. Otherwise there’s invariably trouble when the bunnies hit puberty. There will of course also be lots and lots of baby rabbits.
  
  I think you could keep them in cages near each other, but not so close so they can fight through the cage bars. Give them time to get used to each others presence. You can exchange toys between them if they have toys. After some time you can also start switching litter boxes between them.
- 09/11/2017 at 1:19 PM
  sarahthegemini
  Participant
  5584 posts
  You’ve only had your new bun for two weeks. You need to let her settle in and then try a month of pre bonding before an actual meeting.
- 09/11/2017 at 1:39 PM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  So, do I need to move her cage to another room? She is not aggressive one, Tuta is (male)…. I feel sorry for her cause her cage is small ( not to small) and Tuta has a cage for four bunnies. She is not litter trained, so she can’t be out all the time, and I have to watch her because she likes to pee everywhere. And I let them out separated.
- 09/11/2017 at 1:42 PM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  She already owns a home? she is not insecure one ? yeah, Tuta sees her as intruder.
- 09/11/2017 at 3:28 PM
  Bam
  Moderator
  16966 posts
  The best thing is if you can keep them in separate rooms for a little while now, say a week. But if that’s not possible, you can keep the cages in the same room, but you still need to give them time to get used to each other’s scents. Swop toys between them. Rub the toys (gently) on the back of each bunny so the toys get lots of scent on them. Sometimes this procedure can make the aggressive bun take out their aggression on the toy. And that’s good, because the toy obviously won’t fight back so the aggressive bun thinks he’s established himself as top bun and might not feel a need to fight when they meet.
  
  Be patient, both buns are in a state of stress right now and adding onto that stress by forcing them to meet now will, in all likelihood, make matters worse.
- 09/12/2017 at 10:24 AM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  He started pooping all over the house… Is that because of her?
- 09/12/2017 at 10:41 AM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  Yes, litter box habits go out the window with bonding.
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 09/12/2017 at 5:20 PM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  oh no, not again :'(
- 09/26/2017 at 4:48 PM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  Ok, I separate them cage2cage for 14 days. When i let him out, i put her in his cage, and him, in her cage… Tonight we went first time in other room… Not small, but its only neutral territory i have. Summary: he tried to approach, but now, she was one who is aggressive one. She jumped on him and fight started… Any advice?
- 09/26/2017 at 4:49 PM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  I also tried whit toys, they didn’t reacted at all…
- 09/27/2017 at 6:59 AM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  Can u help me?
- 09/27/2017 at 7:39 AM
  Deleted User
  Participant
  22064 posts
  You still need to prebond more. 2 weeks isn’t a long time for them to get used to each other. It’s recommended to switch litter trays, blankets and such for at least 1 month. Sure, some bunnies may take the process quicker, but yours have fought and it sounds like it was a pretty gnarly spat!
  
  I would have separated them into completely different rooms to allow them to “forget” about the other rabbit. After only two weeks, it’s probably fresh in their mind that they’ve had a fight and so when they get reintroduced so soon they may feel like they have to be automatically aggressive/defensive.
  
  It will take a lot of time to bond. I did prebonding for almost 2 months and I’m on week 3 of bonding. It can take a long time, you have to be patient and go at their pace or you risk permanently damaging their trust in each other.
- 09/27/2017 at 10:42 AM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  I agree that more pre-bonding would be good, and maybe after a full break to let them calm down and forget each other a bit.
  
  Is there a rabbit rescue near you that might be able to help in person?
  
  My first pair was a very tough bond (3 months), mostly because I screwed up early on (they had a good first date, and then my friend convinced me to just “see what would happen” in non-neutral space….. of course one attacked, which soured things up. Doh! rookie mistake!!!) We eventually bonded them, but they would fight in neutral space after that so we had to go very slowly.
  
  We had to start with VERY short sessions. Like 30 seconds, before anyone had time to start fighting or being aggressive at all. Several like that…. then slowly work up to 1 minute…. and then 2 minutes…. etc. Always being sure to end on a good note, even if that’s you petting them both side by side. This can also be a good way to start sessions.
  
  It is VERY important that you do not let them fight. Do they immediately chase/box/circle/attack? Or do they go nose to nose, ask for grooms, and then get upset when the other doesn’t reciprocate?
  
  Since your bonding sessions are in a big room, I would put each bunny in a separate carrier (or have a helper carry one, you carry the other), place them at opposite ends of the room, and then let them start exploring. If they immediately go to attack each other, you should probably take a long break like BunNoob suggested. If they start exploring and work their way towards each other, that’s a better sign. Still keep the date super short.
  
  The idea is to build trust between them, which is harder to do once they’ve already fought, but it is still possible. Keep in mind that bunnies are aggressive out of fear of the other rabbit, but they also bond with other rabbits out of fear of outside forces (predators).
  
  If you have access to a car and a helper, you and try taking them on a car plastic ride in a bin together. I would sit in the backseat with my two, armed with a squirt bottle, and with oven mitts on my hands in case they started nipping each other. I would smoosh them together and pet them both while my partner would drive. Be careful that neither bunny is getting too stressed (keep an eye on appetite and poops), and scale back if needed.
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 09/27/2017 at 5:18 PM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  BunNoob: Its been a month as she arrived at my place. Bam wrote to me and said to keep them cage2cage, that was two weeks ago. They dont have blankets in cages cause they pee on them, so i put them Dog Potty Pads and change it when they pee… Tuta has a litter tray, but it cant fit in Debela cage, its too big. She doesn’t have l.tray cause she always digs all out. So I change cages (put her in his).
  
  Dana NM: I live in one room, so i can move her cage, but they will always be in contact. I am from Serbia, we dont have rabbit rescue at all. On neutral space, I let them like 5minutes they just look around ignoring each other, and Tuta approached to her nose to nose and started to munch her forehead hear (he loves doing that, he did it with his little girl), and she got scared and there was a fight.
  
  I have very small bathroom, maybe to start there, but short sessions? Like you said 30s then minute and so…
- 09/27/2017 at 5:37 PM
  Deleted User
  Participant
  22064 posts
  I understand that it’s been a month. BUT your rabbits have fought on several occasions. They will have to have time to get over that or they will continue to fight. If you want to bond them, you need to stop trying to put them together when they are just fighting constantly. You’re being quite impatient if you think that 2 weeks of prebonding is enough when they have fought to the point that you said the bathroom was covered in fur….if you keep pushing them to bond and they keep fighting, you might force them to never want to bond.
  
  If you aren’t patient, nothing good can come of it. You need to separate them and stop letting them fight. You’re not doing yourself any favors by trying to reintroduce them so quickly.
- 09/27/2017 at 5:56 PM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  ok, for how long i need to separate them? cage 2 cage or to move her?
- 09/27/2017 at 6:11 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  Dana NM: I live in one room, so i can move her cage, but they will always be in contact. I am from Serbia, we dont have rabbit rescue at all. On neutral space, I let them like 5minutes they just look around ignoring each other, and Tuta approached to her nose to nose and started to munch her forehead hear (he loves doing that, he did it with his little girl), and she got scared and there was a fight.
  
  I have very small bathroom, maybe to start there, but short sessions? Like you said 30s then minute and so…
  
  Ok, this actually sounds more hopeful. Definitely better than immediately attacking! If it takes them 5 minutes to start fighting, end the session after 3 minutes, even if they are ignoring each other. And yes, 30 seconds would be a very safe bet! You could try 30 seconds for a few days, then try for a minute for a few days, then for 3, etc.
  
  If they suddenly approach each other and go nose to nose you can pet them both right away to calm them and swap their scents.
  
  The goal is to slowly and gradually build up their trust around each other. In this sort of case, you’ll want to be right in there with them for now, so you can immediately pet them when they go nose to nose.
  
  Eventually, once they calm down, you will want to back off a bit (and not jump right on them as soon as they go nose to nose), but for now it’s very important that they do not have the chance to fight.
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 09/28/2017 at 7:48 AM
  Deleted User
  Participant
  22064 posts
  Personally, I would do prebonding for 2 more weeks. But for me, I get very stressed out when they start to fight so I wanted to make them as comfortable with each other as I could before I started bonding. For me I would rather take the extra time and have them tolerate each other for longer sessions, rather than try to do several short sessions a day.
- 10/02/2017 at 11:11 AM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  Yes, doing more pre-bonding is never a bad thing, but I think in cases like this it’s very important to start with super short sessions to break the cycle of fighting.
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 10/27/2017 at 2:10 PM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  I separated them for a month. Tuta had bladder inflammation. So, how to do prebonding? Cant switch litter box (she doesn’t have one, and his is too big for her cage), i gave her his toys. They dont have blankets, only pee pads.
- 10/27/2017 at 2:35 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  Are you able to swap who is in which cage every day or two? That’s usually the simplest and most effective.
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 10/27/2017 at 3:00 PM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  Yes i can
- 10/27/2017 at 3:00 PM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  Tuta will be very angry, but i’ll try. For how long to do that?
- 10/27/2017 at 4:03 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  Considering yours were having some issues (reading back through your thread), I would aim for 1 month. You can swap them every day or every two days. Try not to clean the cage/litter boxes until they have been in the new cage for at least 6 hours. You want them to really smell the other bunny, and loose track of who’s territory it is.
  
  I usually would swap them in the evening one day, then clean the litter boxes in the morning, then swap them either the following morning, and then clean boxes that night, etc.
  
  I know it can be hard to have good housing for two bunnies at a time. You should consider expanding the smaller cage with either an x-pen, or storage grid cubes, to make sure both bunnies have enough space during the whole process. It will help everyone feel happier and more relaxed during the whole process, including you!
  
  You can also brush both bunnies with the same brush to swap their scents.
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 10/27/2017 at 5:49 PM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  I just remembered that i have old Tuta cage… So ill put her to live there for a few days, to make her feel comfortable… And then start switching… I totally forgot it on it…. It was wooden,and Tuta peed all over the wood, and it started to stink… So i bought a new one…
  Then i can start litter training on her, cause she pees all over the house
- 01/15/2018 at 4:21 AM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  Hey… We still didn’t moved from death spot. We lost neutral territory, so it got harder to bond. So, i changed their cages for two months… And they could sniff each other trough cages… So, i got the idea… I put male on the leash, and let her out… If he tries to bite her, i will pull him back.. So i am doing it now… Male wants to bit her in first minutes, but i dont let him… then they stop and watch, head to head… And i saw that female wants to kiss him, but she is scared… Then male starts doing strange thing: he starts licking her, but very fast he swiches to biting her, but not aggressively, its small bites, like pulling her hair… i dont know… and she sits still, but after a few little bites, she gets scared and runs…
- 01/15/2018 at 4:23 AM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  And they even eat together, once, and didnt fight…
- 01/15/2018 at 5:31 AM
  Sirius&Luna
  Participant
  2320 posts
  It’s not safe to pull a bunny on a lead, you could break his back.
  
  Can you try introducing them in the bath tub or bathroom? Or you can buy a pop-up pen, that would be neutral.
  
  If they are eating together without fighting, then repeat that for lots of short sessions.
- 01/15/2018 at 6:08 AM
  Bojana992
  Participant
  18 posts
  I am scared that they will fight if I put them in bath tub…
- 01/15/2018 at 6:16 AM
  Sirius&Luna
  Participant
  2320 posts
  If they fight then you should be there to separate them immediately. If you can’t introduce them in neutral space without being worried that they’ll fight, then perhaps they just aren’t going to bond. Some rabbits will not bond.
  
  From what you said, it doesn’t sound like they would immediately fight. Can you sit in the tub and stroke them both together? This way they get used to being next to each other but you’re right there so either they can’t fight, or you can grab one before it escalated.
- 01/15/2018 at 8:45 AM
  sarahthegemini
  Participant
  5584 posts
  Stop putting your rabbit on a leash immediately. Pulling the bun back with the leash could break his spine.
  
  Your female is terrified (“she wants to kiss him but she’s scared”, “she’ll sit still but then run away scared”) and you are putting your male at risk by leashing him.
  
  You need neutral territory. It’s not really negotiable. Find a way to create neutral territory. And do short sessions and stop before any one attempts to bite.
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