LIttermates behaviour

[Izzy&Dexter's mom]

Hello,

I am brand new to Binky Bunny. I learned about the site several weeks ago, when I was scouring the internet for all the bunny info I could; prior to getting my babies from the breeder. I got 2 female littermates: Izzy and Dexter. Sorry if my story is long but I want to make sure that I didnt miss some small but important detail.

My previous experience with rabbits was when I was a kid and my parents bought bunnies for me and my 3 siblings. We lived in a horse farm and the bunnies had a large outdoor cage. We were in southeastern Brazil, by a lake, so it was never too hot or cold outside and they got nothing but fresh grasses and greens. My grandfather raised pet bunnies for a living when my dad was a kid so he taught us all he knew. (Never grab them by the ears or neck, no fruits, if the green isn’t so fresh you wouldn’t eat don’t give it to the bunny, don’t try to pick them up or carry them around and so on…)

Because we couldn’t let them out of their cage, all you could really do was feeding and petting them and I never really watched them interacting as closely as I have with Dex and Izzy. I never worried about trimming their nails or combing them since we were kids and my dad would be afraid we’d hurt them so the guy who looked after the horses would do that too. Both my parents lived in farms for most their lives and, if they didn’t know the answer to a problem, their siblings did – at least that’s how it seemed as a kid. Also, one of my uncles is a vet and he would check on them quite regularly, since the family gathered at our place pretty much every Sunday. (We are part Italian). Needless to say, I didn’t learn half as much as I wish I did… I never got too involved back then.

My bunnies arrived 3 weeks ago today and they were 8 weeks old according to the breeder. Their vet wants to wait until closer to 4 months to spay so I still have about a month to go. I deconstructed a 2’ d x 6′ w x 1.5′ h cage and used the wire bottom to make it taller so I have a 3.5′ h cage now. I also build a large bunny proofed area around the cage, which they can access 24/ 7. Basically their whole area is about 7′ x 8′.  

They seem happy and active. I used Aspen shavings for the litterbox, which they use more regurlarly every day even though I haven’t tried to train them yet since they are still so little. I do still find lots of dropping in the pen but that is all. I give them tons of hay and I have slowly introduced fresh greens over the last week. I grow as much bunny safe food as I can, so they get super fresh things. They love their fresh mint, wheatgrass, basil, dandelions… 

They have been doing binkies since the day they arrived. Very shy at first and refused to come out of the box we used as carrier but the minute they were out they were investigating and hopping like crazy. 

They used to be stuck to each other – eating side by side, sleeping pretty much on top of each other, where one went the other literally followed. And that’s where I am a bit unsure what to do. Basically, where Dexter went Izzy followed.

Dexter was the first to come out of the cage, to try new food I offered, to check out any new toy I put in their pen, coming over to say hi every day when I tidy up their pen and cage. Izzy always following Dex, a few steps behind.

Over the last few days I noticed they have been spending more and more time apart but they seem sweet to each other still when they are together. Seems like more and more often if one is in the cage, the other will be by the farthest corner of the pen. Sometimes I see Izzy hop inside their little tunnel or hut and Dex will hop out and go elsewhere but, other times they seem quite content to just cuddle for the longest time.  

Also, Izzy is also always grooming Dex for as long as she will allow it (until Dex hops away). I saw Dex groom her maybe twice for a few seconds. I usually don’t pet Dex for long because she just isn’t the cuddliest of bunnies and I don’t want to frustrate her so I will pet the forehead and generally she will hop away within a minute or so. Izzy is cuddlier and she will let me pet her head and body. Somedays she isn’t that interested but others she will close her eyes, stretch out and sometimes I can tell she is purring.  

Yesterday, I gave them their fresh veggies and petted their little foreheads and Dex actually seemed extra friendly so I pet her behind the ears.

A little later I came to check their water (someone always gets Aspen in it and the weather has been a bit warm lately so I change it quite regularly) and I noticed something seemed odd about Dex. I had a better look and I saw two bald spots where the ears meet the head. One side is all sore, with little scabs so I called their vet. He told me to separate them.

I took the remaining parts of the original cage (it was a large cage with 2 doors and a partition to make it into 2 cages). I reinstalled the partition and I split their pen into 2 areas so they can see each other still. At first Dex seemed delighted with the arrangement and Izzy was freaking out. I gave her a stuffed animal but she didn’t care. She was biting at the partition, hopping around non-stop and standing up, trying to find Dex. Dex was just chilling, binkying, eating as usual and if she saw Izzy through the partition she’d not seem to care. Izzy was eating and doing the basics but she’s not happy and it breaks my heart to see her so upset so I got up several times and checked on them through the night.

I came over a couple of hours ago and Izzy was quiet in her cage, but not the good kind of quiet. Coincidentally, Dex actually came to the partition as I was checking on her and both of them started to bite it furiosly. It was the first time I saw Dex seemly upset about the separation and I couldn’t watch anymore so I tried putting them together. They ignored each other at first, them sniffed each other and Izzy proceeded to lick the sore spots on Dex’s ear again and wouldn’t stop (no treat seems more attractive than those ears it seems) so I brought her back to her side of the pen while I write this, since I wouldn’t be able to supervise them.

I am supposed to bring both of them to the vet later today but Izzy is so clearly depressed I don’t really want to wait another 8 hours to put them back together. I was thinking maybe Dex is getting hormonal, breaking the bond by ignoring Izzy more and more so she is making up for it by overgrooming at any chance. I thought maybe I will have to separate them because of that until after they are spayed but seeing Dex upset too is making me wonder whether that is the way to go. Can a bunny break a bond and the other still be totally in love with her? I don’t know what to do. Any help would be most appreciated. Thank you.

[Izzy&Dexter's mom]

Sorry, I forgot to ask – is it possible Izzy licked the fur off to remove my scent since I don’t usually pet Dex around the ears. Can she be jealous?

Also, originally I was considering 2 males and the vet told me that he could neuter them at 4 mnths old. I ended up getting 2 girls instead – once I got to the breeder and I saw Izzy I was in love and my husband picked Dexter, which happened to also be a girl from the same litter. I don’t know if the vet can spay at 4 months, I recall him telling me for females it would be a longer wait. Can they be hormonal so soon? (just under 3 months?)

[Elrohwen]

I’m not really sure what the question is? Separation at this age is probably a good thing, because they may fight as they become hormonal. Typically it’s more around 5-6 months, but it’s not the same for every bun.

I would separate them so they cannot see one another, get them spayed, and then re-bond them.

The biting on the cage bars could be territorial behavior, not them being upset about being separated.

[Isabel]

Females generally don’t get hormonal until 5-6 months, but it depends on the breed. Generally, smaller breeds mature much faster than larger breeds. A male holland lop can reach sexual maturity as early as 8 weeks. Males tend to mature faster than females (around 3-4 months), which is probably why your vet suggested the earlier surgery. In addition, a neuter is a much less invasive surgery than a spay. Spays are usually held off until the bunny has gained a sufficient amount of weight and can survive the surgery.

Long story short, that 4 month mark is probably not realistic anymore. Your vet will most likely want to wait for the 5-6 month mark.

PS: Bald spots are NOT good. That’s a huge red flag. They’ve been fighting when you’re gone (most likely ripping out hair). If bunnies fight, it can be devastating to their bond. I would suggest keeping them separated until they both get spayed. I know it’s difficult, but it’s for the best.

[Izzy&Dexter's mom]

I suppose I have 4 questions:
1- Can Izzy have licked the fur off out of jealousy to try and remove my smell from Dex since I petted her a bit longer than usual?
2- Is it possible Izzy feels a bond but Dex doesn’t? Can one bunny cease to care while the other still does?
3- Should I move one of them to a completely different room of the house or just change the partition so they don’t see each other?
4- I eventually hope to allow the buns free range but for now I am still working on gaining their trust. If they won’t bond back after the operation, can unbonded bunnies share a house without issue?
Thank you kindly for your assistance.

[LBJ10]

First of all, are they both girls? They might not be.

1. Are there scabs? Fur missing on the back of the neck could be from humping. Izzy could be trying to dominate Dexter. You said Izzy grooms Dexter, but Dexter refuses when Izzy asks to be groomed.
2. It could be a matter of who is getting a taste of hormones first.
3. It is better to separate them completely. You can leave them in the same room so they are familiar with each others’ scent, but don’t have them right next to each other (where they could bite through the bars).
4. They can, but they wouldn’t have free range. At least not in the same area at the same time. You might need to have an area for one bun and an area for the other.

[Elrohwen]

1. Bunnies don’t understand concepts like jealousy or the time you have spent petting another bun. There’s really no way to know why she did it, but I would be careful about attributing too many complicated emotions to her actions.

2. Could be hormones. One might be naturally more curious about other bunnies than the other. When I got my second, she was very interested in my boy and tried to jump into his cage multiple times. My boy didn’t really care about her at all. After bonding, they are best buddies. I wouldn’t worry about it right now.

3. I would separate them completely until after they are spayed if they are showing signs of stress at being able to see each other.

4. Bunnies sharing the same territory (free range in the same house) much be bonded. They are very territorial of other rabbits until bonded and generally won’t tolerate other bunnies in their space. You would have to set up completely separate areas for them. I wouldn’t worry too much about them not re-bonding though. They haven’t had any horrible fights, and they are both very young, so in all likelyhood you will be able to bond them after spaying and they will live happily together.

[Izzy&Dexter's mom]

Hello
Thank you all for all the help. I took them to the vet and the doctor thinks Izzy is just overgrooming Dex. We are keeping them separate until the fur grows back in a couple of weeks or so. I also got some drops for Dexter’s bald spots and ears, since the vet found out there was some yeast starting to develop (possibly worsened by the excessive grooming / licking).
They seem really sad when separate so I created a new partition I can open up easily to allow them to go to and from each other’s area and I am allowing for multiple supervised visits through the day. I haven’t seen any fighting when they are together, just lots of bunny loving. The minute I open the little gate they are binkying and racing around… They are so much happier together!
Since now I have been watching everything they do, I noticed Dexter basically shoves her head under Izzy’s face very frequently, like she’s asking to be groomed so Izzy complies. I have to distract Izzy when that happens so I keep their wheatgrass handy otherwise Dex will be completely bald in no time.
I am guessing the yeast is bothering her and she wants the area groomed, but the vet said after a week of applying the antibiotic drops it should be better. Izzy doesn’t have any health issues and the vet said it won’t pass from one bunny to the other so easily.
We are probably looking at 2 more months for the spay surgery so hopefully they will remain good buddies until then but I will be watching them a lot closer, just to be safe. And, by the way, the vet confirmed both of them are girls.
Thank you all again for the advice.

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