Litterbox help

[BaileyBun]

 Logan has been peeing outside of his litterbox more and more- and today, I don’t think he peed in his litterbox at all.  At first, I thought it was just a territory-claiming thing.  He was going a lot in the same area, so I put a litterbox there…. he’s still peeing in that area, but not at all in the litterbox.  It’s driving me nuts!  And I’m running out of carpet cleaner!  I suppose Bailey could be doing the same thing, but I haven’t seen her hanging out in that area, and she has always had perfect potty habits.  Any ideas?  My first thought was to put him in a smaller area without carpet, namely his cage, but I don’t want to keep Bailey in that small of a space with him and I don’t want to separate them.  Second thought was that he should see a vet about it- I’ve had to reschedule his vet appointment for his sneezing three times now due to weather, but he’s going in on Saturday.  Maybe he needs more than three litterboxes?  Maybe I should make the expen setup smaller and keep them confined to it (they’ve been running around my room as long as I’m here, which has been almost the whole day- but he’s only peeing in their expen area, not outside the pen)?  Or maybe he just needs to be litterbox trained… in which case, I’m clueless, because Bailey trained herself to use the litterbox.  Help would be appreciated!

[jerseygirl]

Are you still able to contact where he was fostered? Just thinking you could check if he had probs then but also try get his litter box set up the same as what they had. I know you tried a few changes to work out why he was sneezing.
Could he be having an aversion to the litter material or box size?

[BaileyBun]

I know that at his foster home, he was in a cage with two litterboxes, one on each end of the cage, with the same litter I’m using now. I didn’t think about the size, since they’re a good size for Bailey to hop in and hang out, but I believe that at his old home, the boxes were bigger… I know that sometimes, both bunnies are hanging out in the same litterbox, so I assumed it was a decent enough size for him. He seems okay hanging out in the box, as he’ll hop in to eat his hay, but actually using it is another story. I also realized that his new preferred carpet area is by the water bottle, which is in “Bailey’s” cage (I think it’s now considered a shared area, but I could be wrong), and maybe that has something to do with it…
I’m also noticing that these pee spots aren’t leaving stains on the carpet like usual- it looks more like spilled water- and they don’t really smell like urine. This little bunny is one big mystery- first the sneezing, now the peeing! Arghh!

[BaileyBun]

One more clue… I just picked Logan up for his daily grooming, and he had urine on the long hair on his butt, plus on his legs, poor boy. I gave him a mini-bath with a damp washcloth and rubbed it dry, but it looks like the skin underneath, at least on his legs, is already irritated. His hair underneath is usually a little yellow, probably because it’s just so long under there, but today was the worst I’ve seen it. I’ll definitely talk to the vet about this.

[RabbitPam]

Vet talk is the next step.
{{{{{{{{{{{Healing vibes for Logan}}}}}}}}}}}}

[BaileyBun]

Replying because the vet said it’s not health-related, but Logan’s still going everywhere…
It looks like he just needs to learn how to use the litterbox. I really want him to have soft things to stand/sleep on, like carpet and blankies and a comfy bed because of his broken leg, but he pees on everything that’s soft. I’m not sure how to “train” him to use the litterbox- Bailey has always used hers since I’ve had her, so I have no experience with this. I hate to confine them both to a cage until he’s using the box regularly (I will get major thumps of disapproval from Bailey), but is this something I should be doing? Right now they’re in the cage plus the expen (not the whole thing- it’s folded, so their area is pretty small- maybe 2′ by 4′) and there’s a litterbox on each side of the pen, plus one in the cage. Any tips??

[mocha200]

have you tried covering the litter with hay so it is soft? that might work.

[BaileyBun]

Yes- all of the litterboxes have hay on top. He likes to hang out in the box, too, and eat hay.

[RabbitPam]

You’ve probably already read the basic tips, but they are always worth a try. Putting the hay in one end of the litter box is enticing to him to stay in the box to eat it.
Make sure the box is big enough. Back it against a corner or wall where he can see but feel safe, not hanging out there or vulnerable.
Put all soiled litter and paper towel that you’ve soaked up pee with into the litter pan immediately.
When you see him go in it, praise him. Give him a small treat. You could try a clicker to reinforce the good behavior, but just don’t reprimand him when he doesn’t use it. (Punishment doesn’t work with bunnies, though they can understand a firm No.)
If you think he may need to go, by wiggling his butt and looking restless, scoop him up and put him in the litter pan.
Spray accident areas with a solution of white vinegar and water to discourage repeating in that spot due to the smell.
Have an outside litter box available, but do confine him for a while until he “gets it”.
Time his time out so that it’s right after he’s eaten and gone, so he won’t have an urgent need to go if it’s not marking pee. Then it will be more natural to go when confined later.

I hope some of this helps. I guess I’m glad it’s not medical, but it takes patinece and can be frustrating. While I wrote this, Sammy explored her outside cuddle cup, and left a pile of poos in it. I stopped and dumped them all into her litter pan. Sigh.

[BaileyBun]

Hmm, I wonder if I should get bigger boxes for him. Right now, he’s able to turn around in them and he’ll lay in them (just not flopped out- he has to compress himself a little). They’re about 14″ by 11″, and he’s 4.5 pounds. I think they’re a good size for Bailey, but even though they weigh roughly the same, he just looks a lot bigger (although it’s hard to tell if it’s just his poofy hair!), so he would probably like to have an extra few inches to move around. I’ll go to the store this weekend.
I’m having trouble seeing when he needs to go, and I can’t tell when he does go. He doesn’t wiggle or lift his tail or anything (at least not that I can see)- just all of a sudden, there’s a puddle on the floor, and by then it’s too late to do anything about it.
I’ve been spraying and cleaning the areas with a carpet cleaner made for pet stains and odors because it removes the stain marks from my carpet- should I switch to the vinegar/water? Thanks for the tips!

[RabbitPam]

I like the Nature’s Miracle product line for cleaning up after pets, because it is non-toxic for the animal. Otherwise, cleaning up after the stain with a pet control cleaner like that is fine. It should help keep him from repeating in those spots.

Also,the litter itself can make a big difference. If you get a larger litter pan, use it with his usual litter. Then put his old pan in another spot, like right outside his cage, and try a new litter that’s the opposite type. Like if you use a soft litter – carefresh or aspen shavings – switch to the pellet form like Yesterdays News. Or vice versa. It may be that the litter doesn’t appeal to him. Make sure it’s unscented, and if you use Pine, use untreated (Never use pine shavings) like Feline Pine pellets for rabbits or cats. Sammy used to scatter her litter outside her box until she made it clear that the Aspen pellets with aspen shavings were acceptible. (suddenly no mess anymore when I switched.) It took several brands in small quantities to find her favorite.

[jerseygirl]

Could he be peeing over the side of the boxes?

I was going to say try bigger box since you mentioned they were bigger at his foster home. Worth a try. Do you have anything around you could use like storage container. Even a cardboard box cut to size with a plastic liner, a ton of newspaper, litter and hay just as a temporary thing. Or you could pop the current box inside a carboard box cut down on the sides to allow them to hop in.

 

A small thing you could try is for the times when you do see him in the box and know he is peeing, acknowledge it. i.e. give attention and some nose pets. When he doesn’t do it in the box, don’t give attention, just go about cleaning up. Harder than it sounds believe me. Sounds as if you’re missing the times he is actually doing this anyway so the “not giving attention” at the time is probably taken care of.

[BaileyBun]

That’s a good idea, RabbitPam. I have carefresh leftover from when I was trying out different litter when I got Bailey, so I’ll try filling a box with that… although it’s such a pain to clean and more expensive compared to the stove pellets, so I’m not sure I’d be happy about switching to that! Either way, I’ll try it, and if it makes a difference, I suppose using carefresh is better than having ruined carpet
jerseygirl, I didn’t think of using a cardboard box- that’s smart! I’ll go dig one up and try that. Haven’t been to the store yet (what a busy weekend, plus he’s only had 1 or 2 accidents in the past 2 days!), so I’ll do that. I’m going to try to pay more attention to him and see if I can tell when he’s using it. He’s still pretty shy with me, so do you think a treat would be okay instead of petting? He also seems to respond to “good boy!” so I’ll do that, too.

[BaileyBun]

Funny update- I was grooming Logan this evening, and because his usual “grooming pedestal” aka my office chair was in use, I put him on my bed. Two minutes later, he pees all over my blanket, which I really should have expected, given how he immediately pees on anything soft. Guess I just wasn’t thinking! Oh well. I picked him up and plopped him in the litterbox.
Anyway, I’m really starting to think that it’s just a fabric/soft stuff problem. Maybe he’s just really confused by soft things and thinks they’re okay to “go” on. He’s getting a lot better with the carpet since he’s been confined to a smaller area (maybe 1 or 2 puddles a day now), but literally as soon as he steps onto something soft, he goes. Is there any hope for eventually letting him have a soft bed or a comfy towel? I’m worried that the relatively hard flooring will be rough on his broken leg- plus Bailey wants to have her cuddly stuff back!

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