It’s pasturella

[wendyzski]

OK – we got the culture results back – it’s pasturella.

Pepper was sneezing so I brought her to the vet when it started getting worse.  That was 3 weeks ago, and we came home with Baytril and a probiotic.  She got better for a while but after about a week and a half but then started getting worse again.  So when we went back this Saturday I asked them to do a culture to find out what it was and what would kill it.  She got better after the nasal flush but is back to making sad little wet noises under the couch again.  She is eating but with no real enthusiasm, and has lost about half a pound in the past 2 months – she’s down to 5.7 lbs.

The vet office left a message that it was indeed pasturella and that she would need Baytril and a probi.  I just called back and said “hey – we tried that and it kind of didn’t work!“, and they should call me back before 6.  I’m working stupidly early tomorrow so I can pick up whatever we need tomorrow afternoon.

I’m terribly grateful for three things right now:

1.  That she most emphatically does NOT want a bunny companion

2)  That I did NOT take her to the Red Door Spa Day a few weeks ago, because I was afraid she’d get somebunny sick

3)  That we have VPI and have already met the $50 deductible for this condition.  So everything from here on out if covered 90%.

(note – just got a call back and we’re getting chloramphenicol instead of baytril.  It’s google time!)

So anyone who can share their expereinces in caring for a Pasturella-positive bun, i’d appreciate it.

[babybunsmum]

(((((((((pepper)))))))))  no experience to share… sorry wendyzski.  i even have to go & look up what it is.  wanted to let you know that my furry friends & i are sending lots of healing vibes your way!

[osprey]

{{{{ Pepper }}}}

Thankfully, I have not had to deal with Pasteurella.  It is one of those strange ilnesses where a large number of rabbits carry the infection, but only a few manifest a disease because of it.  Poor Pepper, I know how much she likes meds.  When I see Auntie Heather on Saturday I’ll try to remember to ask her about it.

 

[LittlePuffyTail]

Sorry to hear about your bunnies illness. I recently had a Pasteurella scare when I brought my new girl Olivia home. Luckily, her culture came back negative.

I did a lot of research on the subject when I thought she had it and some of it seems really scary but my vet said it’s not the terrible epidemic disease it’s often thought to be. I’m sorry but I don’t remember any of these sites, I just found them via search engines.

What I do know is these bunnies can live very happy, normal, healthy lives. You just need to take some protective measures if you have other buns in your household. The disease is spread via any type of discharge. I also read that the best way to keep your pasteurella bunny healthy is to develop a routine and avoid stress as this often causes the negative symptoms to appear.

Hope this helps and **hugs**. I know this must be hard but I”m sure you two will make out fine!

[JK]

I’m sorry to hear about this. I don’t know much about it. Is this snuffles?

[Sarita]

I’ve cared for and had a few.

What is important to realize that they are only a problem to other rabbits when they are symptomatic.

Alot of the cure for this is a clean, stress-free environment which you are providing for her. Make sure you take all antibiotics prescribed to her religiously. I take it you did a culture – was there anything else present? I would ask what else other than Baytril it has a sensitivity too – you want to be very aggressive with this – it will never “go away” though.

[Sarita]

I’ve used chloramphenicol for many different things w/rabbits.

Are you getting oral or injectible?

Oral has an extremely bitter taste and you need to be careful handling this as it can cause anemia in humans which is why they do not sell this for humans or “livestock” any longer. I recommend if you do it orally you get it compounded with a pleasant flavor otherwise do it injetible.

This is used for a wide variety of ailments in rabbits – it’s good stuff in my opinion, better than baytril which is overused in my opinion.

[wendyzski]

Thanks everyone for your support – I’m calming down a little bit now but I was pretty freaked out when I found out.  I’ll be doing a lot of googling over the next few days.

Thanks for the hint about the flavor – my vet is very good about compounding stuff with bunny-friendly flavors.  We’ve had Baytril flavored like vanilla icing and apple – both went down just fine with a dab of applesauce or canned pumpkin. 

We already have a pretty steady routine, but there might be some concerns when I travel for faire gigs.  In the past she got annoyed with me for being gone so much by mid-season and started digging in her litterbox, etc.  But she eventually forgave me after I started sleeping on the couch so she could “visit” me.  And I plan to move this fall, but into a condo I’ll be buying so hopefully the stress will be short-lived.  And I live by myself and there are no other pets, so it tends to be pretty quiet.

I just hope that she starts eating well again – she’s been slowly dropping weight for weeks and I can’t do anything about it!

What would I do without you guys. 

[rabbitsmba]

Poor Pepper – I hope she gets better really fast.

I don’t have any personal experience with pasteurella but I do know that sometimes one course of baytril is not enough. Sometimes they need to be on it for up to 3 months to really nip it in the butt. And starting and stopping an antibiotic will make the body immune to it so continuous treatment is key. So don’t give up on the baytril just yet….

[Scarlet_Rose]

Poor Pepper! 

Some places to start for research:

http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rabrefs.html#past

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/index_en.htm

 Dana Krempels repsonses with links to pertinent articles

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/7-month-old-rabbit.htm 

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/head-tilt-unable.htm

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/Rabbit-dose.htm

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/Pasteurella.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sarita]

I do want to say that you need to be careful you don’t over research – you may only frighten yourself for no reason. Best to make sure that you discuss any concerns with your vet or any research that may concern you with the vet. That being said, I do think research is good so that you may discuss this with the vet.

[wendyzski]

Posted By Sarita on 05/08/2008 6:01 PM
I do want to say that you need to be careful you don’t over research – you may only frighten yourself for no reason. Best to make sure that you discuss any concerns with your vet or any research that may concern you with the vet. That being said, I do think research is good so that you may discuss this with the vet.

 

I appreciate this – really.  I’m seeing a lot of stuff out there that contradicts the other stuff out there  – but now I know what kinds of questions to be asking, some of the things to look out for, and I have a general idea of what I’m dealing with. 

I’m the kind of person who finds researching calming.  KNOWING what I’m dealing with helps me focus and gives me concrete things to wrap my head around.  I know some people who can get buried in details until they panic, but I’m not one of them.

[wendyzski]

Posted By Scarlet_Rose on 05/08/2008 5:57 PM

Poor Pepper! 

Some places to start for research:

http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rabrefs.html#past

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/index_en.htm

 Dana Krempels repsonses with links to pertinent articles

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/7-month-old-rabbit.htm 

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/head-tilt-unable.htm

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/Rabbit-dose.htm

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/Pasteurella.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 Thanks for those – I’d already found most of them, but there was one that said that the medication we start tomorrow can occasionally cause decreased appetite. Since she’s already dropping weight, this is something I will keep a very close eye on – and I have Critical Care on hand if necessary.

 

 

[osprey]

If you are worried about the weight loss, discuss with your vet if it would be OK to include some alfalfa hay in her diet.  This is higher calorie, and it seems to be tastier too, it may encourage her to eat more.

 

[Laura]

Hi

My Gerald had pasteurella (not multocida).  He was on trimethoprim-sulfa (oral) twice a day, for a month.  Just finished his medication about a week ago and he is doing much better.  (He wouldn’t take it from the syringe, so I mashed it up in some banana, which he loved).  I think he had pasteurella last year too (symptoms were the same), but we didn’t have it cultured last year.

Gerald symptoms were: runny nose & eye, sneezing, wet/dirty front paws, and not eating much.

Cinnamon developed 3 abscesses in his head a few months after we got him, which were lanced and drained, never cultured, that was probably pasteurella too.  He was on antibiotic injections for a year.  He is doing great now.

Other buns haven’t gotten it.  I believe there are different types of pasteurella. Hope this helped!

Laura

[wendyzski]

Posted By las711 on 05/08/2008 8:52 PM

My Gerald had pasteurella (not multocida).  He was on trimethoprim-sulfa (oral) twice a day, for a month.  Just finished his medication about a week ago and he is doing much better.  (He wouldn’t take it from the syringe, so I mashed it up in some banana, which he loved).  I think he had pasteurella last year too (symptoms were the same), but we didn’t have it cultured last year.

Gerald symptoms were: runny nose & eye, sneezing, wet/dirty front paws, and not eating much.

 

 

 

That sounds like Pepper’s symptoms – general lassitude, sniffles and sneezing.

 

 

 

 

 

[skunklionshow]

Sorry Wedyz & Pepper.  I hope that the Pepper starts to feel better soon!

[BinkyBunny]

It actually looks like you have received some great advice, and so i am sending over healing vibes for Pepper and peace vibes to you! I know it’s so hard to deal with this, especially when it is something you have to keep up to date on as new treatments come and go.

Please keep us updated, and again happy, stress-free healing vibes comin’ your way!

[Lion_Lop_Lover]

((vibes for Pepper))!!!

[wendyzski]

OK – a bit less frantic today, after spending time with her this weekend and a few days on the meds, and I am cautiously optimistic.

The specific infection is pasteurella multocida. She gets 1.6cc of banana-flavored chlora-whatever-it-is once a day and I’m supposed to up her .25cc of probiotic to twice a day.  She was more active and also more sneezy by Sunday, but I am hoping that the sneezing is because the goo is breaking up in her head.  I even got a slow-mo pellet dance on Sunday (more of an amble around my feet a couple of times, but it’s more that she WAS doing).

A dab of canned pumpkin laced with banana-flavored antibiotics apparently gets two paws up.  She nommed it right up.  There was happy butt-twitching.  She was licklicking the paper plate so hard that she was pushing it across the floor.  Utter concentration at the front end and scrabbling at the back.  Then she tried to eat the plate.

I’ve been able to find a bunny-sitter to visit over Memorial Day weekend, so that’s a BIG weight off my mind.

I also got a small bag of alfalfa hay to sprinkle in with her timothy – both to tempt her appetite and to put a little more weight on her.  This seems to be working, at least as far as the eating goes.  Output looks good, but I’ll clear the litterbox tonight so I can better monitor things.

So she seems to have stopped declining and is even slowly improving.  And I’m sleeping a little better.

[Beka27]

poor Pepper! i’m glad you’re doing what you can to help her out. i don’t know anything about this, but i know she is still going to have a wonderful life with you!

[Sarita]

So glad she is doing better!

[Scarlet_Rose]

That’s good news Mimz! Continued positive ***vibes*** for you, Pepper and the rest of your family!

[Gravehearted]

Sending lots of good wishes and healing to Pepper. I am so glad you took out the VPI plan for her!

[wendyzski]

OK – one week on the Chloro-whatsit-ol and there are small but definite signs of improvement.

She is more active now, and though she still sneezes sometimes they are not as “wet” sounding as they were.  Her nose is also MUCH drier.  She has put on a bit of weight and adores her alfalfa (we’re now down to a small handful a day).  She still occasionally whistles when she sniffs but it seems her sense of smell is improving – she sniffed EVERYTHING in the apartment yesterday.

This morning she actually ate all her pellets at once – it’s been weeks since she took more than a few mouthsful at a time and then came back later.   I nearly cried when I got out of the shower and saw that!   I even think I may have seen a small binky the other day!  She’s also restarted her campaign to chew through the gate to the bedroom, and has eaten 2 pages of the latest Deadalus Books catalogue.

Poops are a little worrisome – some are big and damp and some small and squished, but that’s probably from the antibiotic.  She’s getting .25cc of a probiotic twice a day and it seems to be keeping everything on a fairly even keel.

[osprey]

Yay Pepper!  Happy to hear she is feeling better.  I am glad she is liking the alfalfa hay, hopefully it will help her put on a little weight and recover more quickly.

 

[Sarita]

That’s wonderful news! Thank you for the update.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Oh my goodness just found this!! I’m so sorry she’s not feeling well, but Wonderful news in your last post, about her doing better!! **VIBES**

[wendyzski]

Houston, We have a BINKY!!!!  I repeat – we have a BINKY!!!!

She just hopped on to the hallway rug and threww three spinnking binkies!

*cries*

[MooBunnay]

YAY! BINKIES! Thats so great! She must be feeling sooo much better I’m so glad to hear she’s returning back to her normal eating habits as well. You’ll probably get quite a protest when you don’t have to put alfalfa in her hay anymore. How are the poops doing? I think that in addition to the antibiotic, its probably just the new things in her diet like the alfalfa and the treats that you mix the antibiotic in that are giving her some variation in her poops.

[BinkyBunny]

Yahoo!! I am so glad to hear that she is feeling better. It is not abnormal for poops to get whacky while on meds, but be sure to let your vet know though about this and just keep and keep an eye on it.

[Gravehearted]

I am so glad to hear that for the most part she is doing well and hope the smaller poops are just due to the meds.

[babybunsmum]

a binky… oh thats awesome!!!   i’m glad that she has improved so much

pinky’s poops were like what you described the day after her spay when i took her home and i assumed they were from the meds / surgery because they were looking normal the very next day.  she was a bit of an anomaly tho since she ate with gusto as soon as she got home & i’m sure thats why the poops returned to normal. 

have pepper’s poops gotten better now that she’s back to normal eating habits?

[wendyzski]

Well, we go back to the vet tomorrow for follow-ups.  Three weeks on the Chloro-whatsits has helped a LOT.  She is active again, and energetic.  There are bouncy-circles on the couch, and Bunny500s.  She is also well enough to be a brat again – she yanked the comb out of my hand last night when I was trying to groom her, and it was a bit of a challenge to finish my breakfast all by myself.

But she is still sneezing up a storm.  4-8 times at a stretch, and sometimes more.  Some bunny-boogers but clear (she will wipe her nose on my hand while I’m petting her head – eewwww).  I can’t tell if she’s gained much weight back, but her fur seems glossier.

So she is clearly feeling MUCH better but still not well.  I’ll report back when the vet tells me

[Sarita]

I’m glad Pepper is getting better. The chloramphenicol is a really good stuff (for animals).

Let us know what the vet says.

[BinkyBunny]

Oh good, I am glad she feeling better. Bratty Binky Girl sounds like she’s on her way to back to healthy!

[wendyzski]

We’re to stay on the meds for another 2 weeks, and then go off for a week or two before bringing her back, to see if that will do it.  She is still sneezing.

[BunnyLugs]

My tommy has it too. It was diagnosed as the snuffles, which I thought was the cutest sounding disease ever! However, it isn’t a ‘cute’ condition, but not as scary as they make out. MOST bunnies WILL have the bacteria and test positive, it doesn’t get out of hand in all bunnies though. He will always have it, and in times of stress it will come back. Just keep doing what you’re doing. I would like to share some tips that have helped me so far. My vet says he is one of the healthiest bunnies he has seen with the condition. Probiotic I put in the water acording to instructions and antibiotics he will only take when soaked into a tiny piece of bread. Plenty of greens, or I pull up some long grasses on my way home from work, wich he really enjoys, and lastly I keep a very clean cage. I have put a guard on his litter tray to stop him digging in his poo poos! I give him foot baths ocasionally to remove foot gunk that he uses to clean his face but try to keep this short and stressfree if you have to do it. The vet says a little olbas oil or vicks vapo somewhere helps to ease congestion. Not too much as you don’t want to damage his sensitive nose. I put a couple of drops on his carpet, where he will happily sit and sleep. Hope this helps

[wendyzski]

Well, it looks like this is one little bunbun who beat the odds!

At the vet recheck on Saturday, there were absolutely no signs of illness or infection.  She’s been off the chloro-whatsits for 3 weeks and the probitic for one, and no sneezes or discharge.  They did a culture anyway to be safe, but they said she looks perfectly normal.

Her immune system will always be somewhat compromised, so I need to watch her carefully and bring her in at the first sign of another illness.  But other than that, it looks like she is going to be just fine!

*snivels a little in relief*

[Sarita]

I’m glad she’s better.

Bunnylugs gave some very good advice too. It is a matter of a stress-free life and clean living area – they will always have pasturella if they’ve tested positive for it.

[osprey]

Yay Pepper!  Glad to hear the loppie diva is back to her old self.  Does this illness mean that she cannot now go anyplace other buns go, like to the Red Door spa or the vet’s office?

[Scarlet_Rose]

That’s great news!

[wendyzski]

I will probably skip the Spa days from now on, as while it’s not likely I’d feel awful if another bun got sick because of her.  I’m good enough with her nails and she’ll just have to learn to tolerate my brushings.

We go to the vet, but since she never really liked other bunnies anyway so she stays in her carrier.  I wash my hands thoroughly before touching any other buns we might meet at the vet.

[wendyzski]

Well, we spoke too soon perhaps.  Either that or this is just what life is like with a pasteurella-bun…

She started sneezing again on Thursday, and left most of her salad Thursday and Friday, so I called the vet 1st thing Saturday morning.  We’re back on the chloro-whatsits for 3 weeks and then a re-check.

Her nose is running again and she seems a little thinner so I layered in some more alfalfa.  She’s mostly happy that (drug-laced) applesauce has reappeared at meals!

[Beka27]

you are so great! thank goodness she has you to take care of her!

[Author]

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