It’s Complicated… (GI issues)

[Bunnisox]

One of my rabbits, Muffins, has been having ongoing stasis-like symptoms and issues for the past 6 months.

– Reduced appetite (especially for hay – she won’t touch the damn stuff unless I shove it in her face over and over again)
– Reduced size droppings, intermittently
– Experiencing pain, intermittently (hunched up, grinding teeth, eyes closed)
– The upper GI area right below the stomach frequently feels hard (not bloated, like gas – but hard)

– She’s had a few instances of mucus covered stools: Roughly 3-4 times in the past 6 months, each isolated/separated incidents a few months apart, and only 1 to 2 fecal droppings covered in the mucus – not ever a ton of it, or mucus all by itself (from what I could ever see). I know this is due to inflammation in the GI. I’ve been trying to treat this with homeopathic remedies prescribed by a vet (Carbo Veg) and with Linden + Plantain leaf.

The last week has gotten much worse than normal (more frequent), so I took her in to see a new vet yesterday. I have already seen 4 previous vets in my area and am still looking for a good one (it’s getting frustrating for both me and my poor buns).

He took some x-rays, checked her teeth, took some blood, and sent in some stool samples. He said he didn’t see anything abnormal in the x-rays, and her teeth looked fine (didn’t see any molar spurs, or cuts in her mouth, or anything). We’re still waiting to hear back about the results from the blood-work and stool samples.

About 5 days ago, she stopped pooping and eating entirely and seemed to be in constant pain for about 7 hours — needless to say, I was a mess trying to remedy this. I ended up remembering that Bam said Ranitidine was a gut stimulant, and had some on-hand for my bun that’s having surgery soon, so I gave Muffins 2.5mg of Ranitidine. It’s seemed to help her a lot. She started pooping shortly after she took the medicine and then started to eat soon after pooping. I’ve been giving it to her once a day ever since, and her belly has not felt hard ever since. However, the vet advised to stop using this as rabbits need the acid in their stomachs to help break down food properly. I am hesitant about following his advice, as I’ve seen it has been helping her, but I know his advice is probably sound/logical… does anyone have an opinion on this? I know it’s not going to FIX the underlying issue, but if it’s helping her while we figure it out, is that so bad? I don’t know if it’s the acid reduction qualities or the GI stimulant properties that is benefiting her so much (or both?) – but whatever it is, she hasn’t been as bad since I’ve given it to her.

I asked him if she could potentially have stomach/gastric ulcers that could be causing her this pain – and he said it’s really rare, but possible. But I didn’t ask him how we would check for that, or if he did check for that — does anyone know how to confirm if they have these? Would it have shown up in the x-rays?

I changed her diet, eliminating everything except green/red leaf lettuce and carrot tops – which I understand are both okay for rabbits and shouldn’t cause any issues? Am I understanding that correctly?

I had a phone consultation with Dr. Newkirk in NJ about 2.5 weeks ago (he was featured in an article for HRS a while back for holistic medicines in rabbits, so I am hoping he knows what he’s talking about). He prescribed her 2 things:

1. Carbo Veg tablets – for reducing inflammation
2. Nux Vomica tablets – for helping with stomach pain / acidity

She had a really bad reaction to the Nux Vomica, and I stopped giving that to her after 2 doses. But she has been taking the Carbo Veg tabs 2x a day now for almost 2 weeks. I haven’t noticed any difference from them. I have another follow-up phone consult with him, soon.

SHE WONT EAT FREAKING HAY!!!! I don’t understand, if she’s not having any tooth issues, why the hell isn’t she touching any hay? I’ve tried ALL different kinds of hay – Timothy (1/2/3rd cut), Oat hay, Orchard grass, even the dreaded Alfalfa out of morbid curiosity to see if she’d eat it, but she won’t eat any of them! I would say she probably eats anywhere from 0-15 strands of hay each day – which IS NOT nearly enough. My other rabbits eat hay without a problem, it’s good quality hay. I tried reducing the amount of veggies and pellets I give her to help encourage hay consumption, but that ended up being more detrimental than anything because then she just stopped eating all-together. It’s literally driving me insane. Usually, the only way she eats it is if I literally sit there for HOURS shoving hay @ her mouth over and over again until she gets irritated enough and eats it. I’m literally losing so much sleep over this. I’m so worried for my baby that I end up staying up until the wee hours of the morning, trying to make sure she’s eating hay to keep her GIT moving! After doing this for months straight now, I don’t know how much longer I can keep this up. The times I just leave her be and don’t try to get her to eat hay, she doesn’t eat any and has a horrible day the next day.

I thought that maybe her pellets were causing this – they might be, as I haven’t been able to take them away. I know pellets in general are not the best things for buns, and I’ve read that soy bean hulls that are found in most pellets can cause stasis issues. That’s when I switched by other bun over to Sherwood brand pellets, which replace the soy in their pellets with alfalfa hay, instead. My other buns are on those pellets and are doing okay with them (not overweight or anything). I tried to get her to eat them but she won’t touch them. I keep them out for her 24/7 just in case she wants to eat them, but she won’t. The pellets she is on are Small Pet Select pellets, which are 25-29% fiber, and have the best ingredients and percentages of content that I can find in comparison to other brands like Oxbow. But I still don’t know if there may be an ingredient in there that is causing the problem. I tried slowly reducing the amount of pellets she gets so I could eventually take them away, but she just ends up going hungry and making things a million times worse because she won’t eat any damn hay in replacement of the pellets I’m taking away.

This last vet visit, he gave me some oils and a probiotic. The oils are for digestive support and immune support:

1. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002L7KU4Q
Contains: Certified organic marshmallow root, licorice root, ethically wild crafted plantain leaf, slippery elm inner bark; vegetable glycerin USP, distilled water.

2. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0048Z4WZC
Contains: Olive leaf, echinacea purp root and herm, as well as the eleuthero herb.

I also give her Papain/Bromalain tablets for hair issues, as she has been shedding a little bit lately.

If changing diet, bloodwork comes back normal, and nothing show in xrays – what next? I asked the vet that yesterday, and he told me “We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it” – pretty much not answering my question. I don’t know if HE doesn’t know what to do next either.

Does anyone have experience with GI issues like this? I feel like I’m literally killing myself trying to take care of her and make sure she’s okay – recovering from the vet visit yesterday is currently HELL right now, and I’m running on about 1.5 hours of sleep. My other rabbit has surgery coming up soon, and there is absolutely no way I’m going to be able to take care of her, and Muffins at the same time without passing out from exhaustion and not eating. I have no time to do either…

I feel like I don’t know where else to turn, no one else left to ask, nothing else left to do. I just want my baby to feel better.

Picture of my sweet bun, because she is so beautiful and I love her so much.

[Bunny House]

Muffins is adorable
I know how you feel about trying to find a good vet, I have tried so many vets. Do you have a vet school around you? Often times they have their own vet hospital and they can see animals. Thats what I did for my babies, I go to Texas A&M because they specialize in bunnies. You should go to an emergency vet ASAP that is specialized in exotics because this seems to be a very critical issue you have.

I have given gas meds to bunnies for gas and it helps, but i am not sure on how long they can take it. He should have prescribed you a safe gas medicine. I also want to say, she is in critical condition so I do not think she should be going under for surgery or it can have a bad outcome. Has the doctor prescribed her pain meds such as meloxicam or buprenorphine? She needs pain meds.

I would give her a variety of hays, fruits and safe herbs ( this can make them stimulate their appetite) and make sure she is on probiotics- this will give her good bacteria in her gut to digest food.I do not know how stomach ulcers are determined but there should be a way to see them. Have you given her critical care? And does she drink water? She needs to be fed critical care-according to the serving for her weight-this will give her food to keep her gut moving and also fluids so she won’t be dehydrated.

Has the doctor palpated her stomach? Listened to her gut sounds to make sure she is moving stuff along?
I would say she also needs an X-ray or ct of her head because she could have an abscess growing and make her not want to eat. I know bunnies can amaze us with how many issues they hide. My New Zealand amazes me with her health issues.

I hope this helps

[September]

Muffins is just beautiful and I can understand how much you love her and worry about her. I am no expert by any means, but I used to get my fussy Timothy to eat hay by rubbing a little banana on it. The smell initially got him interested, he wanted the banana, not the hay itself…but he would have to eat the hay to get the banana. It was a godsend when he was being picky, which was quite often. I know any fruit is not ideal, but it was only a tiny bit, because, amazingly, a tiny bit of banana covers quite a bit of hay. And if it was between that or not eating the hay at all, then there wasn’t much choice. If you are OK with trying it, you could tempt her, and then see if she would go to it herself eventually. Timothy would also like to eat soft, fresh grass, which is the next best thing I guess.

It is just a suggestion, and it maybe it won’t work for Muffins. I just know it was a trick that worked for Timothy. I know you must be desperate to try anything and with your dedication, you derserve for your Muffins to be back to good health. Bunnies are beautiful, but they are such a worry to us. Good luck.

[Bunnisox]

UPDATE: So I heard back from the vet and all of Muffin’s blood-work came back completely normal. He went back over the X-rays and still could find nothing wrong there, either. Her stool sample came back clean, with no parasites or issues there.

….. What the hell???

The more and more I think about this, the more and more I keep coming back to 2 things:

1. Whenever I give her the Ranitidine – she feels better. Her stomach is no longer hard, she eats, she poops, she runs around and acts pretty much “normal”. I can’t be certain though, if it’s the gut stimulant doing this, or the acid reducer doing this – or both. But giving her this medicine helps. I just don’t know what to make of it.

2. The pellets. In a post a while back, I indicated that BOTH my little Netherland Dwarfs were having the GI Stasis-like issues. Since then, I was able to wean one of them (her sister, Waffuls) off the Small Pet Select pellets, and have been feeding her the Sherwood brand ones (the ones without the soy bean hulls). Ever since I’ve done that, Waffuls has not shown any signs of stasis. I’m really wondering if it’s the pellets that are doing this to her… I came to this revelation last night and took them away and replaced them with the Sherwood brand — but she hasn’t touched them. I’m scared that she will not be eating enough now that I’ve taken the SPS pellets away from her, because that’s what happened the last 2 times I’ve tried to wean her off them. But this time, she’s on the Ranitidine, so I’m HOPING she will eat SOMETHING – either hay or the Sherwood pellets, when her morning veggies are gone. *fingers crossed*

Does anyone else have experience with using Ranitidine? As previously stated, my vet advised me to stop using it as it’s only masking the problem and not fixing it, and said she needs that acid in her belly to help digest food properly. But I’m so reluctant to stop giving it to her as it’s helping her feel better.

[Katie]

Does your bunny chew wires? If she does she may have an electrical burn on her mouth making eating painful and causing the other issues to go with it? I’m sorry that’s the only suggestion I’ve got that wouldn’t show up on an x ray or blood work I hope she’s feeling better soon

[Bunnisox]

Hey Katie — The vet did a full oral exam a few days ago and said that he didn’t see anything unusual, and her teeth/mouth looked perfect. >.<;;
Thank you so much for your suggestion, though. It’s always worth putting in a suggestion or thought, just in case we haven’t thought of it. I appreciate it!

[Bam]

Some buns have to be on gut stimulants for longer periods, but it is absolutely true that they need their stomach acid. My Bam got ranitidine to help reduce stomach acid when he was on metacam, because metacam irritates the stomach lining and can cause ulceration unless you give something that reduces the amount of stomach acid at the same time. He was on ranitidine for at least one week, perhaps two (I’m not at home so I don’t have my notes).

There are however a better gut motility drug called metoclopramide. It’s an anti-emetic/anti-nausea and gut stimulant for humans, not a acid reducing agent. It’s prescription only here, I don’t know how the prescription situation is where you are locate, but the drug seems available in most parts of the world under a whole host of brand names, most commonly Reglan or Emeprid: http://www.drugs.com/international/metoclopramide.html It’s often used by vets for rabbits.

I’ve read that gut stimulants should preferably be tapered out rather than stopped abruptly, because the body needs a bit of time to start up it’s own gut motility again when you stop the drug. So to be safe, you lower the dose over a couple of days before you stop the medication altogether. I don’t recall where I read that though, I’ll have to try and locate the source.

I’d try to switch her over to the pellets Wuffles tolerates. They are sisters and could have similar sensitivities to certain ingredients in food. And type of pellets really can make quite a difference for a bun’s GI health.

Muffin really is adorable =)

[JackRabbit]

Hi Bunnisox. Ranitidine acts differently in rabbits than in humans and has a milder motility effect than Reflan or Cisapride which are the commonly prescribed motility meds. Ranitidine is regularly used as a first measure in megacolon buns (one year old). The mucus on the poop says there’s irritation lower in the gi tract.

One of my buns has a very sensitive tummy and is thought to have “acquired megacolon” (meaning he doesn’t have the coloring or lineage indicating genetic megacolon but may have acquired the condition from damage done by coccidia when he was a baby). Anyway, we found that Sherwood adult maint pellets (the ones with added timothy hay) to be the best for his tummy as he does not tolerate soy (in any form) or sugars at all. Simethicone also seems to have a soothing effect for him. As far as hay eating, all my bunnies are big hay eaters, but he has come to especially like oat hay mixed in. I make up a mix of 1st and 2nd cut timothy, orchard grass hay, and oat hay for all of my bunnies in order to give them a variety of flavors and textures. Each has their favorites in the mix and foraging for their favorites helps to keep them interested in the hay.

[Bunnisox]

Thank you Bam & JackRabbit – both very good pieces of information to know.

Bam — I will talk to the vet about possibly using a different motility medicine until we determine the root cause behind the issue. I’ve already tapered her off the Ranitidine completely as of today, so no more of that.
I’ve taken away her other pellets for about 3 days now, with no noticeable difference as of yet. Do you have any idea on how long it usually takes for their system to adjust after the removal of a problem food/ingredient? She is definitely not eating the Sherwood pellets, as I’d hoped that she would – and I’ve had to up her lettuce amount overnight and while I’m away @ work, because her hay intake is definitely not where it needs to be, and if I don’t give her SOMETHING to eat, then she won’t eat at all, and we don’t want that. *sigh*

JackRabbit — Yeah the mucus is definitely from inflammation. All 3 doctors I’ve taken her to have reiterated that sentiment. I have her on a few things to try to keep that under control; while still trying to find the problem food/ingredient(s).
The Sherwood pellets you are referring to are the ones I’ve been trying to get her to eat, but to no avail. I’ve noticed her picking them up and eating one here and there (literally like 1 or 2 pellets in a 7-9 hour span), but she won’t actually EAT eat them.
When a rabbit has Megacolon, does that show up in x-rays, blood-work, or some other form of testing? Are there any other signs or symptoms I could be looking for to see if this potentially is an issue with my Muffins?
Yeah, I’ve tried giving her all kinds of hay that I can find, with different brands of each and she is literally so picky about it and won’t eat it. I’ve found that she likes the soft green pieces of hay from the oat hay, but won’t touch the yellow stalks, or the shiny light colored pieces of it. So literally I’m buying 10lb boxes of oat hay, and sifting/sorting through the box for HOURS each day, picking out the soft green pieces so I can feed them to her. She freaking refuses to forage for it herself! I set it out all together and she takes one sniff at it and is like “Nah, I don’t like this crap” and walks away from it without even looking for anything in it. SMH…

[JackRabbit]

Where are you getting the oat hay? Sierra Valley has amazing oat hay right now.
Sherwood pellets don’t contain molasses so not sweet like many other pellets and a very slow transition seems to work best for bunnies who resist change or who have sensitive tummies. We started out by hand feeding Sherwood pellets as treats. Once the buns accepted them, we began slowly mixing them with their pellets over a month and a half until we were fully transitioned. Kieko was our biggest hold out with the pellet transition (she wanted her sweeteners!).
As far as tests for megacolon, there really aren’t any. Depending on “wet gut” (mushy poop, mushy poop, and more mushy poop!) or “dry gut” (stasis prone, hard poops with mucus), symptoms are treated with diet adjustments, motility meds as needed, pain meds (motiliy from meds can be painful as gut muscle contractions are increased), and fluids if needed Fresh hay and fresh water are super important.

[Author]

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