Is trancing ever ok?

[Deleted User]

Quincy absolutely will not let me trim his nails. They were supposed to do a trim at the vet when he got neutered but they didn’t. I would bring him back to the vet, but I just don’t want to stress him even more and I have no idea what their method is to keep them still, but I can’t imagine that it’s pleasant.

I have to pick Quincy up to bring him to bonding sessions because he absolutely refuses to get into a carrier. I try to lure him into the litter box and pick up the box with him in it because I feel like that’s less stressful as he is not being physically grabbed. But sometimes he just won’t cooperate and I have to resort to scooping him up to get him to sessions. So he has become quite wary of me approaching him from above.

I was able to take a towel and lay it over him, then scoop him up and have my husband hold him on his back in a trance, with his head covered by the towel (I heard that can help keep them from being more scared). I was able to quickly clip all of his front nails. But I still have the back nails to do.

Am I absolutely horrible for this or is it ok to do occasionally for nail trims? I know that it’s very scary for them. His nails were so long though and I noticed that one of them had a tip break off, so I was like ok dude, we HAVE to clip these daggers of yours. He will not tolerate any other way, if I try to hold his paws or check his teeth he darts away.

[Serenity]

I’ve heard a lot of conflicting views on this but I’m pretty sure it’s not good. Some rabbits are okay with it, some will get very stressed out and it could lead to something going wrong. Personally, I wouldn’t do it but if you think it’s the ONLY way to clip his nails and you’re okay doing it then I guess it’s your choice mostly. I have heard that it should only be done if absolutely necessary though…

[Deleted User]

I mean, I kind of consider this a “necessary” time to do it. I really don’t want to, I don’t get any pleasure out of doing it. But he is SOOOO squirmy and I just don’t see an alternative method that will work for him. Since I’m in the process of bonding him with my girl Ophelia, I don’t want him having those big long claws because he could really hurt her if they fight. So I guess I’m just wondering how harmful it is in the grand scheme to only do this for a short time to trim nails every now and then.

[Deleted User]

What else could I do about nail trims if not this method? I feel like he’s more prone to get hurt with another method because he’s so squirmy

[Serenity]

I usually wrap them in a towel, not too tight. I make sure their back leg is sticking out and their movement is pretty inhibited. They’re not upside down or anything, just stuck and usually pretty angry. You might have to be pretty firm holding their leg still and it will likely take a while. When training Ginny to have her nails clipped (she HATED it, biting, squirming and growling) I would give her a treat after every nail I was able to clip. Now she sits nice and still with no problems and hardly needs treats at all.

[Bam]

Frances Harcourt Brown, British rabbit vet and the author of the original Textbook of Rabbit Medicine sometimes uses tracing. She says induced tonic immobility, as it’s actually called, can be ok for some rabbits under some circumstances. It’s not sth that should be done “for fun”, to take. It’s pics etc, but it can be good for for example medical exams or (painless) medical procedures when the alternative is sedation or full anesthesia. For example conscious x-rays.

You always have to weigh the pros against the cons. What’s the least stressful way I can get this necessary procedure done? He does have to have his nails clipped, and either you do it at home, or you have to bring him to a vet tech or someone else who can do it.

I burrito my Bam for nail clipping, and I always have another person help me. Bam will be sitting in the other person’s lap and I clip his nails. He doesn’t enjoy it but he enjoys the treat he gets after

[DanaNM]

I had backyard rabbits growing up, and used to participate in rabbit judging in FFA…. I feel terrible about all of it now… but I will say that trancing to check and clip nails, check to see if males were “in tact”, and to check teeth was a routine part of rabbit care and rabbit handling in the past, and I never had any issues come of it. I used to have to trim my bunny’s nails alone, and never knew that trancing was bad….

I don’t do it anymore, but I do think if it allows you to trim his nails quickly and with less stress to him, it is probably worth it. If he is so squirmy that you risk hurting his toe, or him hurting his back, I would just trance him and get it over with. Now, some bunnies (like my Bunston), are so squirmy that they will not even trance… so then you have to get creative.

I just tried Mary Cotter’s technique with Moose and Bertha, and it worked beautifully, although I did cheat and have a helper. I’m not an expert bunny juggler like she is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9KemnaTGIs

The other thing to maybe consider with him is desensitizing him to the clipper so you don’t even need to pick him up. I haven’t tried this, but it looks awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEFrHZbw6tQ&t=1s

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Fluffykins]

To be honest I don’t think the issue here is clipping nails. Well it is, but it’s not the root issue. The root problem is not being able to pick bunny up and also not being able to touch his sensitive parts, ie the paws.

You’ll probably cover this in your bonding sessions but I’d start by desensitising him to getting his paws touched. You’d have to go extremely slow but touching the tips of the paws, to the tops, to holding it, to holding it up and finally holding it up long enough to bring out/spread apart the nails. Each stage would need to be worked upon for several days if not weeks and you’ll also offer verbal praise or physical treats every time he let you do each stage.

And that would be the first step! It’s very late here so I’ll stop there

[Deleted User]

Thanks guys!

Serenity, I will try that way and have my husband help me to hold him. Never thought of wrapping him up and trying one paw at a time!

Bam, he is absolutely terrified of being in a carrier and being in the car. That’s why I figured I should attempt it at home. The only time he was ever in a carrier was coming home and going to the vet for his neuter. He detests the carrier and will even refuse to go in it for banana! What bun refuses banana! Ophelia will let me cut her nails while she has some food on the couch, but he won’t allow that method to fly.

Dana, that’s what I thought. I figure I can get the whole ordeal done in a minute or two, and then he’s back to normal and can hop and binky around as he pleases. But getting in the carrier, making the 45 minute drive to the vet and 45 minutes back… all that when I could do it at home in a few minutes?? And I stopped at his front paws because he ended up flipping himself upright. So the issue I have with trying to hold him still and do one limb at a time in a bunnyrito is that he may end up hurting himself worse. I had my husband holding him in “trance” firmly against his chest and it was when he loosened his grip that Quincy turned himself upright. I know that is bad for their back, and trust me that hubby knows that now too!

Fluffykins, I understand that I need to get him comfortable with the sensation. But, when his nails were already way over due for a trim I don’t have time to work with him. I can definitely do that for the future, but right now he HAS to have them cut for himself and so he doesn’t hurt my girl if they fight during bonding.

[Serenity]

You make a very good point, BunNoob (your name sounds slightly derogatory, I almost feel bad saying it XP). Maybe continue with the trancing just this one last time to finish with his nails and after that, try the method FluffyKins suggested (which is FAR better than mine, even if it does take time). So yes, I would probably continue with the trancing just to finish his back paws and then never again if it can possibly be avoided.
Hope it helped!

[DanaNM]

When I used to trance my bunnies for nail trims, I would sit in a chair, and put a thick folded up towel on my lap, to make a sort of hammock between my legs. Then flip them so their head was facing away from me, and they were nestled in between my legs (so their back would be cradled by the towel). I would then have a partner stroke their head (which would put them completely in a trance), and I could easily clip all the nails.

Again, I stopped doing this once I learned that trancing itself is stressful on them, but I never had any negative signs afterward other than a dirt flick or maybe a scornful foot thump (so no different than any other nail trim!).

Bunston used to be THE WORST with nail trims, so I had drive him to the local rescue for trims when I didn’t have a partner to help me. All of which was very stressful on him! I would have tranced him if I could to avoid all that, but I tell ya, that boy was impossible to trance. You’d flip him, and he’d stay completely alert, tense, and look straight at you like he was going to murder you, so touching his feet was in no way going to happen.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Fluffykins]

Oh also, just had another idea. So I know seeds and treats like that are totally bad for bunny. BUT…(hehe) I’m going to leave my fluffykins in a bit with a friend and thus I wanted to intro some treats for him that he can graze for a while in his cage because he’s going to be spending * a lot* more time in there when he’s with her so didn’t want him getting bored.

So I got a wooden roll toy thing filled with treats (seeds and dry herbs only) that hangs from the cage. I’ve given it to him 2 times, just to make sure the seeds had no adverse effects on him so said friend can give it without worry and it won’t be “new”. Anyway I hung it up high enough that he needs to stand up on his back legs to get a good nibble at it. He puts his front paws on the bars of the cage while he does this – and I’ve thought he’s in the perfect position for a nail clip!!!

I havnt ever clipped his nails yet, havnt needed to yet but he’s fully desensitized to me holding his front paws. We’re still working on his back ones (I can hold them for only a second so far). Anyway so yeah, thought I’d throw that in there, if you felt desperate enough to try haha.

The wooden roll keeps him occupied for a while at a time so I could definitely clip the front paws without him even noticing with this “method”.

Just another tip I saw on YouTube (because why not right, since I’m chattering away)?! Was to syringe feed fav foods to a healthy bunny just to get them used to being syringe fed. Then if you ever need to do it with medicine, the syringe part will already be old news. I thought this was genius!

[Deleted User]

I will work with him and hopefully he will be more comfortable with it. Ophelia took a while to let me handle her paws so I expect he just needs to get used to it!

Thank you everyone! Obviously I want to avoid trancing, so I’ll get those nails nice and short this time and then work with him on desensitizing!

[Deleted User]

Posted By Serenity on 10/12/2017 6:31 PM

You make a very good point, BunNoob (your name sounds slightly derogatory, I almost feel bad saying it XP). Maybe continue with the trancing just this one last time to finish with his nails and after that, try the method FluffyKins suggested (which is FAR better than mine, even if it does take time). So yes, I would probably continue with the trancing just to finish his back paws and then never again if it can possibly be avoided.
Hope it helped!

When I joined this forum in March I was totally clueless! First time owner and I didn’t know anything. I couldn’t think of a name so I went with that, but I have learned soooooooooo much from everyone here that it doesn’t feel like that name fits anymore… and who’s going to take advice from someone calling themselves a noob lol

[Q8bunny]

BN: I envy you, to be honest. Like Quincy, Chewie is a super squirmy bun, and nail trims are simply not doable. He loathes being picked up and having trims despite desensitization efforts on my part. And since it’s just the two of us, I can’t do an effective burrito AND clip with just two hands. So I would LOVE to be able to trance him once a month. Unfortunately, like a number of buns out there, he doesn’t trance. His vet tried it too and confirmed it – he’s a brat. So we hop into the carrier with the help of a yummy biscuit, and we go to the vet for that extra pair of hands. Like we’re about to this morning.

[Q8bunny]

I guess what I was trying to get at is that nail trims (and wellness checks) are vital monthly procedures, so if you’re safely trancing a feisty bun (that is, in your lap, close to the floor to prevent twist n’ drops), then a quick trance is less stressful than the whole vet ordeal, I think. If you do train him over time to give you more options, though, that would be great too.

[Deleted User]

What a character that Chewie is! I’m lucky that I have an extra set of hands because I couldn’t do it otherwise! I didn’t want to trance him but the vet is a bit away and, well you know how I feel about the two rabbit vets around here….they really bothered me with their attitude toward the buns after spay and neuter… plus, at home we get banana after

[Q8bunny]

It’s totally all about the nanners.

[SuperBunnyto]

When my big bun, Elliot, had to take medication he really didn’t like, I’d cover him with a towel and carry him like a baby. I would speak to him in a low reassuring voice and then offer treats immediately after. Having said that, giving medication takes less than a minute. For nail trimming, I personally wouldn’t do it if I could avoid it.

There is a video titled “How to Trim Your Rabbit’s Nails | Pet Rabbits” on YouTube ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9KemnaTGIs ) that has really helped me with trimming nails. I trim my buns’ nails every two months, and that particular video has been super helpful and has worked really well. It’s not that they love it, but it’s not as traumatic as having to make a trip to the vet.

I hope this helps!

[SuperBunnyto]

When my big bun, Elliot, had to take medication he really didn’t like, I’d cover him with a towel and carry him like a baby. I would speak to him in a low reassuring voice and then offer treats immediately after. Having said that, giving medication takes less than a minute. For nail trimming, I personally wouldn’t do it if I could avoid it.

There is a video titled “How to Trim Your Rabbit’s Nails | Pet Rabbits” on YouTube ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9KemnaTGIs ) that has really helped me with trimming nails. I trim my buns’ nails every two months, and that particular video has been super helpful and has worked really well. It’s not that they love it, but it’s not as traumatic as having to make a trip to the vet.

I hope this helps!

[FluffyBunny]

Trancing’s become a very controversial thing in the last couple of years. Personally, I think it’s completely fine, if done with caution. The main dangerous thing with trancing is that bunnies can get very nervous being on their back, and they have the potential to seriously injure themselves if they get up too fast. They also tend to get dizzy and confused for a moment when they wake up. You can prevent most of those issues by placing them on their back very slowly, petting them to keep them calm, and using a second set of hands to hold them upside down and flip them over if it’s a big bunny.

Some bunnies are totally untrancable, too. My Mr. Bunny has some sort of defect in his nose, so he can’t breathe when he’s completely upside down. On the other side of the spectrum, two of my bunnies have actually seemingly enjoyed falling asleep and snuggling in that position. So it really depends on the bunny. If it helps you get the nails trimmed and the anal glands cleaned, it’s worth it.

[LittlePuffyTail]

I don’t trance, personally but my vet does when needed. Like when she needed to check Sterling’s little boy bits after his neuter or to clean his anal glands. Last time he was in, she needed to check his teeth and he’s EXTREMELY difficult to do anything to, so she needed to trance him. While I don’t like seeing my buns tranced, it’s necessary sometimes in a “for their own good” situation.

My vet has never been able to trance Bindi for some reason. Thankfully, he’s super good about most things and is a very cooperative boy.

I just read this article the other day and thought it might be of interest: 

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/b…immobility

I didn’t watch the chicken video. Probably would have upset me. 

[Deleted User]

Superbunny- I have watched that video. It’s not helpful if you have a really squirmy rabbit. The rabbit they are working with seems very tolerant of everything they are doing and it isn’t moving much. I have a 5 month old mini lop and he’s all over the place being squirmy and jumpy. And, as I said in my OP, I sometimes have to pick him up to get him to bonding sessions and that has broken our bond a little and made him wary of my touching him.

LPT- I know that it’s quite a stressful thing for them and I feel bad doing it. But my logic is that I can get it done fairly quickly when he isn’t squirming and that’s going to be less stressful than a trek to the vet.

I’ve tried putting him on his back between my legs but he tries to flip around, and I don’t want him to get hurt. So instead, I just drape a towel over him while he’s on the ground and he stays still. I gently roll him over on his side under the towel and then pick him up and make the transition to on his back while I am bringing him to my chest. I hand him off to my husband, who holds him closely to his chest, coddled like a baby so he can’t try to flip over. Then quickly snip snip (it took maybe 2 minutes to do since he wasn’t fighting or squirming) and then I take him back, and gently place him on the ground on his side so that he doesn’t try to automatically readjust from being on his back and hurt himself. I know it’s not ideal to trance him, but I think it may work best for him in particular. He is very sensitive to stress. When I was trying stressbonding in the car, he refused to eat for nearly 2 hours after. He sat in a corner in the kitchen and really didn’t move at all actually. After the trance nail clip he actually seems to go about his business as normal. So I have to wonder if the car ride would be worse on him because t seems to affect him for a while

[joea64]

Panda and Fernando needed their nails trimmed this past weekend, and it was done for me by the Friends of Rabbits head person when I went to pick them up. I was sitting next to her and observed that she did put each of them on their back, snuggled between her legs (the way you’ve been trying to hold Quincy, BN) while she clipped their toenails. Interestingly, neither of them seemed to be tranced (I thought they would be when they went onto their backs, but apparently not); they were mostly pretty good about holding in place, but continued to move and wriggle around, and Fernando flipped himself over onto his front at one point and had to be cajoled back into position. I was stroking their foreheads through the whole process and gave them a treat right afterward to reward them for their patience.

Car rides don’t seem to excessively stress Panda and Fernando, I must say; they’ve been through four in the past week alone as they were transferred to bunny-boarding and then back to me again, and bounced back real quickly. In fact they seemed to be in a very good mood overnight, especially Panda, who binkied last evening and then did a classic flop (*thump*!!!) this morning right after breakfast.

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