Is this rabbit syphillis?

[Cassie119300]

Hello all,

I brought my bunny Milo to the vet 10/01 concerned about his genital region and ears. He had been scratching his ears/cheek area a lot and the vet briefly examined him and took a swab of his ear which came back normal, she cleaned his ears out with a solution… and put it down to fleas going a little crazier this time of the year, I treat him with ovitrol for fleas once a week and run through his fur with a flea comb getting all the nasty pests off. Anywho, she put the genital region down to him “having a dirty crotch”… and told me to continue to give him butt washes. I have been doing this a long for some time now. He is not overweight or underweight right in between. I think the problem was orchard grass hay, once I switched back to timothy hay he wasn’t experiencing hardly as much mushy poos anymore. I noticed he no longer was humping his stuffed toy which was usual for him like 5 times or more a day. Just stopped… I told the vet it looked infected but I’m not sure she even looked that close. So I re-emailed them after being charged 100.00 and will see what they say tomorrow.  Has anyone ever dealt with this or seen this? I also noticed what appeared to be scrotal lesions? Milo is about 5 years old now and is happy otherwise, eating good,drinking good, normal poops. He likes his naps a lot too.

[LBJ10]

Maybe. The area looks a little swollen/irritated, but I’m not seeing the classic signs like a yellow crust that weeps/oozes. MediRabbit has some good photos of a typical syphilis infection: http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/Syph_gen.html

What about a yeast/fungal infection?

[Cassie119300]

Yeah I was originally thinking some kind of fungal/yeast infection I wasn’t sure because of the testes though was quite odd. Unfortunately the images won’t zoom in to full size on here, upon closer look though there is some white looking stuff and ulceration appearance almost. Not quite crusty but it has been oozing… I’m hoping they look into it more. I’m thinking maybe due to the hard time he’s been having keeping it clean, despite my best efforts it was getting all over the place.

[Wick & Fable]

Do you have ideas on the causes of the dirty butt? A normal rabbit shouldn’t need regular butt washes but it sounds like it might be something you’re doing regularly, as recommended by the vet?

Do you notice anything around his face, whether it is his cheeks or eyes? An inflamed looking nose is also a sign.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Cassie119300]

I was kind of at a loss about the poopy butt. I read someone else’s bunny had been experiencing poopy butt due to the high protein content in orchard grass hay. After reading I decided I would switch him to straight timothy hay. This seemed to improve the poopy butt quite a bit. He get’s a bit on him here and there now, but not anywhere near as bad as before. I feed him a small amount of oxbow adult rabbit pellets in the morning, and a small amount at night. He has unlimited timothy hay all day, and at night I feed him a small bowl of spring mix salad or green leaf lettuce. Occasionally I throw in a carrot, celery leaves or basil. I also give him the oxbow treats here and there.

Yes, I started having to do it a few months ago before I originally brought him to the vet around July. I could not seem to pin point the issue as he was also having normal poops, it was the intermittent soft stool that would get stuck to him. So it wasn’t happening consistently every day. The cheek scratching I pin pointed down to fleas, as they had all fled near his face when I did the last treatment sneaky buggers. I got a good majority of them the past few days. His nose appears to be fine, when he eats his salad he has a habit of getting it all over his face so the one side of his cheek is always wet with it. He also gets water on his face/chin alot from drinking. He drinks a lot of water, but doesn’t appear to have any abnormal peeing…. no signs of sludgyness. He was treated in july for conjucitivus which is better, but he still occasionally looks to have some weepiness around the one eye though it doesn’t look inflamed.

[LBJ10]

Have you had his teeth checked? And when I say checked, really checked so the vet can clearly see the molars. Dental problems can cause soft poop, pawing at the face, and difficulty drinking. It might explain the chronic “dirty crotch”, as your vet called it.

I would think if the area wasn’t kept clean (by him grooming) and him having to regularly have butt baths, then there would be the potential for fungus to grow. Or, at the very least, the washing has irritated things down there.

[Cassie119300]

At the visit in July the vet and assistant took a peek at his teeth and said they looked normal but nothing too extensive. He doesn’t seem to be having any difficulty eating or drinking just gets a bit messy as the salad will wash up on his cheeks and he drinks out of a water dispenser and water dish. I’ve been contemplating trying a water bottle but have to find a way to attach it somewhere as he free roams.  Yeah that’s what I was pretty much thinking with the fungus. It’s looking a bit drier and better today… Area has been kept very nice and clean so far, so im very happy to see that.  The vet saw the pics and said there doesn’t appear to be any lesions, but thought maybe his scent glands or secretions from getting frisky. He has not been frisky with any stuffed animals for a while now and scent glands were degunked a few days ago. As for the scrotum they put it down to a friction sort of thing where the hair worn down. Like pants on someone’s knees…

[Cassie119300]

I have an update… Hopefully this will help someone in the same boat. He started appearing with other symptoms this week. More sneezing than usual, and mucus under the nose which is whitish in color and thick which was runny a few days ago… his nose had been wettish for the past month or so… which I put down due to his water dishes and salads he eats as I was always wiping away the greenish pigment.  So this ocurred this week as well as a stuffy nose sound/wheezish sound when Milo is sleeping and snoring, and some tear stained fur around his eyes. The vet suspects chronic Pasteurellosis as well as possibly Treponema cuniculuis ( vent disease).  I have scheduled a penicillin injection for him (1x a week) for the next three weeks as well as getting some enrofloxacin for his Pasteurellosis. Here’s to hoping he gets on the mend here soon. Milo is  a 5 1/2 years old lop earred rabbit who is turning six years old near March.

[Wick & Fable]

What reasoning did your vet provide to conclude it is chronic pasteurella? I’m mainly thinking about the “chronic” part. It’s possible that the nasal-symptoms are very much treatable. There are instances where a URI (upper respiratory infection) may seem like it’s chronic or incurable, but there are times that looks the case because the right medication hasn’t been tried yet, the medication isn’t taken for a long enough period of time (i.e. stop medication when symptoms disappear, but not all the infectious bacteria are dead so symptoms restart), or perhaps there’s something straining the rabbit’s immune system (ex. treponema/syphilis) that is making fighting the URI harder than one would expect. I mention this because I hear a lot of owners bring up chronic snuffles/pasteruella as being the immediate concern when rabbits sneeze and want to highlight that there are many rabbits who successfully overcome sneezing/snotty noses with the proper treatment. It’s not always a lifelong concern.

I have experience with rabbit syphilis (aka treponema), as my Wick had treponema. It can be contracted via sexual contact or a mother with syphilis may pass it onto their young. Notably, a rabbit can have syphilis and not actually show any symptoms until later on (ex. My Wick didn’t show symptoms until he was 2yo, meaning that he was asymptomatic until then (he’s never been in contact with another rabbit prior to then; he got it from his mother). Wick was being treated for ringworm at that time, so the theory is the strain of ringworm facilitated syphilis to finally show itself. There’s no way to confirm that, but it’s the theory.

Coincidentally, Wick did also have sneezy symptoms and it took 5 months of figuring out the right medication to get him over his sneezy and snottiness. Looking back, perhaps it’s because his body was also fighting syphilis back then that it took a much longer time than the vet expected to get rid of his upper respiratory infection. Again, it’s something that cannot be confirmed, but just food for thought. Wick had the URI when I first got him (9wo), so it didn’t overlap with when his syphilis was showing symptoms.

…. The treatment for Wick’s syphilis was also penicillin shots, so it sounds like a fine treatment recommendation. As I mentioned above, if the Enrofloxacin (aka Baytril) doesn’t seem effective on the nasal symptoms, it may be worth bringing up different medications.

 

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[LBJ10]

I agree with Wick. She gave some good advice.

[Cassie119300]

Yeah that totally makes sense, I think that is what is going on here as well that this didn’t come out fully until the other happened. In july he had some sneezing/conjunctivitus which Amoxicillian liquid form was prescribed for Milo, he took two rounds and that seemed to clear it up for the most part. His left eye would still have some light tearing up from time to time, but nothing too crazy and the sneezing wasn’t so constant anymore. Fast forward to about the past week and that changed. I’m not sure why she suspected chronic, she did mention that chronic would have a way of resurging and coming back throughout the remainder of his life… I thought maybe because of his past infection? Though it didn’t make much sense to me, I guess I will know more tomorrow though when I take him in. Milo has never been around other rabbits as well so I’m thinking the case is the same. He used to loove his stuffed animals lol The inflamed genital region only happened though within the past month or so, it didn’t get worse or better so I’m glad they are doing the shots. I’ve spent so much time looking it up and all I ever came back with was syphilis/Pasteurella, it’s been difficult figuring it out until the mucus/redding of his eyes appeared again.

[Cassie119300]

Hello,

I am back from the vet. Milo received his first of three penicillin shot(s). I was also given Baytril to give him every 12 hours. He is grumpy with me for the moment, but content, not a huge fan of going to the vet ( and getting his first shot). I have also just fast track ordered healthy gut probiotics for him that contain  Saccaromyces cerevisea sup species boulardii. I was advised to give him plenty of fiber, greens, and “yogurt drops”. Which I instantly knew was a “no”, to the yogurt drops… so I decided otherwise. We will see how it goes.

[Cassie119300]

Update : Milo completed the shots and genital region appears to be a lot better, he even had interested in his stuffed toy for atleast one day. Unfortunately the Baytril he has been taking for four weeks hasn’t seemed to make any huge improvements. He is still sneezing/ has white snot in one side of his nostril, and some tear/red stained areas of his eyes. We will be starting panacur tomorrow and stopping baytril as they said e.cuniculi can also cause snuffles.

[Wick & Fable]

I would also add that there could be non-ec causes of sneezing/discharge, so trying a different antibiotic can be worth exploring. I also would say that going 4 weeks without increased severity in the sneezing/discharge is notable. My Wick similarly did not improve on Baytril, but when we stopped it, it got worse. That is just one case example, but something to note that it might not all be bad news! It’s possible the Baytril was helping to keep things stable where they are.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Cassie119300]

I agree I’m kind of nervous that he will be stopping the baytril after 4 weeks.. so if all else fails I’ll be calling them back. It definitely has not been any worse… there would be days I thought maybe it was getting better ( his nose looked clearer) then it was back again, so it sounds like it has been keeping him from getting any worse. I just feel so bad for him.. I also keep his eyes clean by using a warm compress to clear away any gookies. Did your rabbit happen to make weird snoring noises throughout all of this too? Being a lop eared bun Milo has always snored to some degree, but it definitely sounds mucusy.

Thank you for the tips all have been very helpful. I have actually ordered some straight up chamomile flowers as I heard it has astringent properties, so I figured it can’t hurt!

[LBJ10]

Did you ever have his teeth thoroughly checked? I ask because there is another possibility here. Tooth problems, particularly tooth root problems, can cause issues with the sinuses and eyes.

[Cassie119300]

I haven’t.. when Milo went for his physical when the problems first arose they checked just his front teeth I believe, and said his teeth looked aligned. I’m not really sure as to why they haven’t recommended this to me but I’m thinking of bringing it up as it seems so weird it’s literally just affecting his one nostril.

[LBJ10]

It may be worth having the vet look into it. At the very least, it will help you eliminate possible causes.

In the meantime, I would continue with his medications. It doesn’t hurt to treat for bacteria and EC at the same time.

[Cassie119300]

For sure, tomorrow is his last day of baytril then just the panacur for a few weeks but we shall see how he progresses.

Thank you for the suggestions.

[Cassie119300]

Hello everyone,

So… After 3 weeks of treatment with the Panacur and Milo finishing up the Baytril just a few nights ago ( The previous bottle managed to last me this long thankfully)…. I’ve really not seen that much of an improvement. I had two other family members look at the left side of his cheek and they both agreed his left cheek looks swollen. I sent some photo’s to the vet I’ve been taking him to and explained the situation.  I said that his cheek looked swollen and since everything seems to be affecting his left side that I think it could possibly be his teeth. He still continues to have some white mucus in his left nostril, his left eye is very teary looking, I’m always cleaning his left nostril as it doesn’t take long for it to get all wet/gooked up again… and I was basically told this and just this : “I strongly suspect that this is going to be chronically infected.  He may need courses of therapy every 3-4 months to keep it controlled.  There is nothing that can remove completely some of these upper respiratory infections in rabbits.” They did not care about anything else. So I’m now back to square one trying to think of where I could possibly locate another exotic vet as there are none close by and even this one was an hour out.  I tried to attach some images here but it said I could not upload any pictures.

 

 

[LBJ10]

Swollen? Hmm… does his face look similar to this? http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Differentials/facial.htm

This is starting to sound more and more like a tooth root issue. It can affect one or both sides. As the tooth roots invade the sinus cavity, it causes irritation and discharge. This can eventually lead to bacterial infections because stuff builds up in the sinuses and it’s just a breeding ground for bacteria. It can spread to the eye and the ear, which in turn can cause facial paralysis.

You can diagnose this with x-rays. There is no real treatment, except supportive care and treating any URIs when they occur.

[Cassie119300]

Yeah it does looks similar to that, the left cheek looks a lot puffier and like its more drooped down than the right which sits up higher, almost like his mouth looks crooked. I have just emailed another vet to get a second look, so hopefully I can get a proper diagnosis. I’m sure that’s what this is definitely a tooth issue.I wish I could upload the images… but I keep getting “sorry but you cannot upload to this post”.

[LBJ10]

What is the file type? I just tried uploading a jpg and it worked.

[Cassie119300]

128719848_289821355797280_7641524875444201846_n.jpg “Sorry, you are not allowed to attach files to this post.” I had a jpg as well I went to add media and I received this message in return and the file size is 50 kb, weird lol.

[LBJ10]

Perhaps the name is too long? Can you rename it so the name is shorter?

[DanaNM]

Some people also have to add the photo to their profile, then it stays in their library and you can insert it into the post. Seems to be a glitch that’s still being worked on!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Cassie119300]

Hmm, I tried both uploading as my profile ( which worked) but did not go into my photo library as well as resizing/changing the file name to a shorter one but no luck. Anywho, the image on my profile now.. is what his cheeks/mouth is looking like if your able to see it.

Thank you

[LBJ10]

I can see your profile picture. It’s small, but I would say what I’m looking at does resemble facial paralysis.

[Cassie119300]

Yeah definitely something weird going on there. I re-emailed the vet I’ve been taking him to, re-iterating his cheek looks swollen and stressing I think it could be his teeth/elongated tooth roots so I’m hoping she will listen. I’m not sure the other vet I emailed would be any better due to some of the reviews I saw… but I’m hoping the one I’ve been with will listen to my concerns and respond with the appropriate treatment, really hard to come by exotic vets here sadly, ones I can get to anyways.

[LBJ10]

I would definitely have it looked into. The other possibility is just a really bad bacterial infection not caused by tooth root problems. The rest of his symptoms don’t appear to be consistent with that though. What you’re describing is very consistent with my experience with this. To confirm these suspicions though, you’ll likely need an x-ray.

The damage to the nerve may be permanent. You might see some improvement with an anti-inflammatory though.

[Author]

Messages