Is it true?

[Lillika]

I’ve been trying to convince my friend to spay her two rabbits for health benefits but she wont because of the cost. She told me she’s read on alot of sites that letting her rabbits have a litter each will greatly reduce the chances of them getting tumours and cancers later in life so she’s planning for them to have a litter each next year. I’m not very in favour of this since I volunteer at the spca as well a fostering for a rat rescue I know exactly how many animals get abandoned each year. I have tried to convince her not to but I dont think it’ll work. Now I just want to know if anyone here has heard of the health benefits? I havent managed to find it anywhere online.

[jerseygirl]

I haven’t ever come across that. I do know that is is often quoted that non-breeding Does have 80(85)% of developing cancer but that does not automatically mean that breeding Does are not at risk. It’s hard to gain credible information. I’ve even read on a breeders site that the cancer risk and statistic is false and made up by veterinarians in US… (I don’t believe that for a second )
Be it true or not, letting them have a litter will not prevent tumors 100%. And what of the female offspring? Will they be spayed or bred also? Questions for your friend perhaps.

If it is only cost that is her concern – maybe try looking into an affordable option for her rather than try disprove any info she is gaining because that could be endless. One member was able to get her buck neutered really cheap because a Neuter Scooter clinic (I think that’s what it was called – lol) had a rabbit experienced vet on board. Not sure a spay would be offered thru such clinics but it’s worth looking into options.

[Sarita]

I have heard that but honestly if she spays her rabbit it will have a 100% chance of not getting uterine cancer. I don’t think that it is really an issue of health but rather some statistics that have nothing really to do with health. If she asked a vet then the vet would confirm that spaying will eliminate the chance of uterine cancer. Do you have a vet she can speak with…what would be better than having it come from a vet!

[Beka27]

Frankly… who cares if it prevents cancer? If she brings 15 rabbits into the world next year, those are 15 rabbits that have an equal risk of developing cancer… and so on. It is a never-ending cycle, perpetuated by irresponsible and misinformed people.

Please tell her the facts and share some info with her. And no, having a litter does not prevent pregnancy. Even rabbits who are forced to have multiple litters still succumb to cancer at the same rate of bunnies who have never been bred… in fact, they often live SHORTER lives.

 

And Lillika: my personal rant is not directed to you in any way either!  Welcome to the site and THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for your hard work and dedication to animal rescue!  I’m looking forward to seeing you around.  Do you have buns yourself?

[Monkeybun]

Posted By Beka27 on 12/07/2009 12:22 PM

And no, having a litter does not prevent pregnancy.

 

Silly beka… me thinks you meant cancer, not pregnancy

[Beka27]

LMAO!!! Well, *technically* the bun cannot get pregnant WHILE they are pregnant… so… ;o)

[jerseygirl]

Actually, I think they can. The have 2 “horns” on the uterus and can carry 2 litters at same time. Very bad for the Doe. Though, this is something I’ve read of internet so….accuracy and all that is up in the air.

[bunnytowne]

JG i heard that too.    About the 2 horns not the double pregnancy.

I seem to believe that a doe bred once or twice reduces the risk of cancer for them  tho I have no proof.   Whether it does or not I feel better knowing a bun is fixed and will have better behavior and litterbox habits along with way less chance of cancer. 

Breeding does do have a shorter lifespan unless they are bred like only 2x a year  or even 1x a year it is easier on them.  Who actually lets their breeding does take it easy  like this I have no clue.  Even bucks if breeding often get tired and worn out if over used.  Poor things.

 

[katie, max & penny]

i’ve heard of a double pregnancy as well…. poor does.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Tumors are caused by sex horomones (Almost all sex horomones are carcinogens)-by performing an ovariohysterectomy, you remove all sex horomone creating organs and voila-NO Risk.

Keep them(ie no spay)-More risk
Pregnancy-EVEN more risk. ALL those sex horomones that are released during pregnancy up mammory tumor chances hugely.

Tell her that there is NO guideline for who can make a website and there are people who believe the earth is flat and post that online…Does she think the earth is flat because someone says that?
Obviously not. So does that mean don’t believe anything online?
Ditto-obviously not.

She needs to check her sources-VERY likely they are old school, with no studies to back them up-and I would take a money wager they were posted by breeders….

If she doesn’t want to get her bunny spayed because of cost…fine…maybe point out radiation for tumors is in the neighborhood of 10,000$ +….

[jerseygirl]

Lillika, I read in your intro thread that you are in NZ. Is this friend also in NZ? I’m wondering if the RNZSPCA has any neutering/spaying programs or clinics that the community can access?

[Beka27]

Posted By jerseygirl on 12/07/2009 08:32 PM
Actually, I think they can. The have 2 “horns” on the uterus and can carry 2 litters at same time. Very bad for the Doe. Though, this is something I’ve read of internet so….accuracy and all that is up in the air.

 

Really?!  That’s crazy!  I’ve never heard that!  Off-topic I know, but very interesting none-the-less!

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Really?! That’s crazy! I’ve never heard that! Off-topic I know, but very interesting none-the-less!

I heard they are like cats (maybe they have the same-the two horns?) and can have part of a litter from one sire and part from another…! Perhaps that is because of the two horns?

[Moonlight_Wolf]

I might have asked this before, but if spaying increases the life of animals, why don’t they spay humans? Would it increase our life spans?

[Monkeybun]

I think my hubby would protest if I took him in to get neutered

[bunnytowne]

K&K yes thats true with cats   I saw a animal planet on that   hmmm   alley cat 

I also wondered it it would make us live longer spaying and neutering people     then we would have to take hormone pills tho    hmmm interesting thoughts

[BinkyBunny]

I wonder if it really is a cost thing – sounds like to me she would rather just have the experience of baby bunnies and then make some extra cash by selling them? If it were just a cost thing, then it would be easier to convince someone to save up and in a year or so get it done. But she seems to have a very specific plan. I am not sure what the euthanasia rate is there in New Zealand, but I know here rabbits are high up on the list because of the overcrowding at many shelters. There are so many irresponsible people with animals that there is no way to guarantee that all the babies would end up safe in the end even if she interviewed them herself (most people are going to be on their best behavior and tell her what she wants to hear to get a baby bunny). Plus, there are plenty of bunnies in shelters waiting forever homes as is.

Of course you know this and THANK YOU for trying to convince your friend. I hope she will listen, but it looks like if she doesn’t it’s not because you didn’t explain something right, it may be that she just is stubborn in her agenda.

[Beka27]

I have always thought the bunny cancer connection was b/c of how quickly they are forming eggs, and how many, the differentiating cells can easily turn cancerous. This is why they do a full hysterectomy (and oovoectomy, is that the word?) where they remove all of it… uterus AND ovaries. Having a litter is not going to decrease the number of eggs that are formed. Some people who have high genetic risks of cancer will elect to have hysterectomies or mastectomies BEFORE they develop cancer. A friend of mine had a hysterectomy while in the hospital after having her second child… her mother had passed form cancer when she was very young.

[skunklionshow]

The hormones are the cause.  In humans we don’t just produce sex-based hormones (via ovaries or testes).  Both males & female people produce testosterone.  One issue that is of current human research is that hormones have a huge effect on cancer (reproductive & breast).  There are studies specifically looking at young women that develop repro cancers and have found they have a harder time knocking it out b/c the body is still producing hormones at much higher rates than older woman.  In some cases of human ovo-historectomy women develop problems bc body is no longer producing higher hormone rates. 

I know that animals & humans can have abnormalities that are not cancer, i.e. fibroids or crazy growths.  I wonder if in humans this is often further assessed and in animals its all considered “tumors” so more aggressive tx is needed.  I also think that the probs a human may develop/experience from a spay would be more problematic and more of a concern to the human.  Animals don’t really demonstrate all the same drama associated w/ changes in health etc. 

Rabbits & Cats are induced ovulators (drop their eggs when they engage in the act)—that’s pretty simplistic explanation.  They also have dual uterine horns, so technically they can have a double pregnancy.  However, if I remember correctly, often both horns are chock full o’babies so there really isn’t any place to put double pregnancy babies. 

[MirBear]

Posted By Moonlight_Wolf on 12/08/2009 05:23 PM
I might have asked this before, but if spaying increases the life of animals, why don’t they spay humans? Would it increase our life spans?

 

i don’t think so.. isn’t getting ur tubes tied (both male and female) kinda like getting spayed and neuterd? that doesnt increase our life span (my mom got that done)

[RabbitPam]

Mother Nature spays humans herself.
It’s called menopause.
It actually decreases the lifespan of men because, as a favorite teeshirt I saw once read, “Warning: I’m out of Estrogen, and I have a gun.”

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I might have asked this before, but if spaying increases the life of animals, why don’t they spay humans? Would it increase our life spans?

STill need to read the rest of the posts but YES it would extend our lives-in fact it happens a lot that women intheir 40’s and 50’s have their ovaries and uterus removed…

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

In humans we don’t just produce sex-based hormones (via ovaries or testes). Both males & female people produce testosterone. One issue that is of current human research is that hormones have a huge effect on cancer (reproductive & breast). There are studies specifically looking at young women that develop repro cancers and have found they have a harder time knocking it out b/c the body is still producing hormones at much higher rates than older woman. In some cases of human ovo-historectomy women develop problems bc body is no longer producing higher hormone rates.

I uh have to disagree

WE do produce the horomones.

And homeostasis has females producing testosterone-an increase in estrogen prodruces a decrease in feedback which causes an increase in testosterone.

One thing they are looking at is women ovulating much older then they *should* be-this is because our lifespan becasue of medical science is much longer.

Healthwise-it’s not just our pets who should be speutered. Sex horomones (estro, progestro, testostrerone etc) are carcinogens -> a vasectomy where tubes are tied keep testicles in the body producing sex horomones-which although decreases/elminates pregnancy does not have health benefits.

[jerseygirl]

I think we all may have scared Lillika away…

[Beka27]

Posted By MirBear on 12/09/2009 03:13 PM

i don’t think so.. isn’t getting ur tubes tied (both male and female) kinda like getting spayed and neuterd? that doesnt increase our life span (my mom got that done)

 

A tubal ligation or vasectomy will prevent pregnancy but it’s not actually a removal of anything.  The tubal ligation “ties off” the fallopian tubes, the vasectomy “ties off” the vas deferens.  A hysterectomy removes the uterus (similar to spaying, I guess).  I don’t believe they will remove testicles unless there is actually something wrong with them (like cancer).

We really know how to get off on a tangent, don’t we?

[Cassi&Charlie]

I think we all may have scared Lillika away…

LOL. This post has gotten a bit off topic…

[BinkyBunny]

Posted By jerseygirl on 12/10/2009 12:50 AM

I think we all may have scared Lillika away…

Well, I knowI am scared now.  LOL.   

Lillika – don’t let our little detour prevent you from asking further questions about rabbit spays.  (We love to learn and hash things out around here….about most anything, so it only takes a little side question to get us off track.)   

 

[Lillika]

No unfortunately in NZ the SPCA here pretty much only care about dogs and cats and farm animals. I’ve called them and the only desexing service they offer to the public is for cats and dogs. Sadly most of the vets here dont know that much about small animals either. Are you guys all in the US? Most people in NZ has just cats and dogs and usually smaller animals are just given to children.

To be honest I’ve pretty much given up on my friend now, I’ve called up every single vet I can find to find the cheapest deal but of course when you have two rabbits the cost of surgery adds up. She’s just refusing to spend money on them. If you’ve read my introduction post then you’ll know about my psycho bunny, she came to me from this particular friend. I guess that pretty much explains everything.

[Lillika]

Lol. No you havent just been very very busy in the last few weeks with the pet rat rescue I foster for, we’ve had so many abandoned and my house is turning into a zoo! Its summer here for us so that apparently means for a lot of people to abandon their pets while they go on holiday.

[jerseygirl]

To be honest I’ve pretty much given up on my friend now, I’ve called up every single vet I can find to find the cheapest deal but of course when you have two rabbits the cost of surgery adds up. She’s just refusing to spend money on them.

Well you’ve certainly tried! Do encourage her not to breed them though. This will not help and there just be more rabbits to deal with. That’s added costs to her. There’s another thread that mentions a study done of wild rabbits in Australia (so this is the same species as our pet rabbits) that found cancer in Does over 4 yrs of age and these had all bred before. A member here is looking into getting a copy of the actual study.

Most members here are based in US but there are members from all over the globe and usually someone kicking about online at all times.

[Lillika]

I will definitely try to convince her not to breed her rabbits. She isnt thinking of doing them till next year so I’ve got some time. The idea of her having to look after two litters of babies really freak me out, these two rabbits are really her first all responsibility pets, her family has dogs and cats but she’s never even had to feed them. She is not experienced with any sort of pets.

[Beka27]

You’ve done what you can. Not everyone can be persuaded to make their pet’s best interests a priority. I’m not sure what the relationship is to her, but if this were a friend of mine, I think I would have a hard time interacting with her if she did decide to breed. It’s tempting to want to go in and help and “save” a dozen baby bunnies from carelessness, but it’s not your responsibility if she chooses to do something… well… stupid.

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