Introducing my neutered male to unspayed female in a shelter setting

[Clarajb]

Hi there – I am the proud owner of a 2 year old Holland Lop house bunny, Ralphie.  He’s a wonderful pet – no destructive behaviors, wonderful with the kids, fully litter trained and has the run of the house!  He seems extremely gentle with all people/animals who he has met.  He has definitely become much more ‘laid back’ since he was neutered after I adopted him last year.

He is always very happy to get attention, and I feel badly that he is alone some of the time.  I’m considering adopting a female from a shelter locally.  This particular shelter is unique in that it spays/neuters bunnies before they are adopted out if the owner requests ($90 total to adopt a female; $70 for a male, with a free follow up vet visit).  It’s not a ‘rabbit specific’ shelter so I’m sure there are tons of smells of other animals in the meet and greet room.

I have my eye on a 2 year old unsprayed female, who upon initial meeting seemed very similar in temperament to Ralphie. She’s also the same size as him.  I have the option of bringing Ralphie in for an introduction prior to adopting her to see if they meet.  My questions are this:

1)  Could the fact that she is not spayed at this point change their interaction in neutral territory

2)  Would a shelter, full of ‘scary’ scents and noises, give me a true picture of their potential to live together

3)  If Ralphie seems content, non destructive and is eating and drinking fine, would he still benefit from a ‘friend?’

Of course, I don’t want to stress Ralphie out too much.  Like many bunnies, he is not terribly fond of traveling and will be much more quiet than usual for a day or two after a vet visit or car ride.  I’m just curious on members’ opinions on whether this introduction would be worth it, or recommended by bunny experienced people.

Thanks a lot.

[LongEaredLions]

1. Yes. Intact bunnies are very unpredictable due to hormones, so there is a much higher chance of fighting.
2. Probably not the full picture, but it should give you some idea if it will be an easy or hard bond.
3. I think he is fine on his own, but most bunnies do like a companion.

Really, I think you should take advantage of the $90 deal, that really is cheap for a spay, and since she needs to be spayed before they are bonded anyways, I would think that’s the best option.

[Clarajb]

Thanks, I know it’s a wonderful practice at the shelter! Fortunately I was able to travel to NJ to have Ralphie neutered through the spay/ neuter program and would have done the same for a female but this makes it easier.
I may take him over there today for a trial run- I’ll update on how it went if I do.

[Clarajb]

Update:

I brought Ralphie to meet the shelter bunny. They let them out in an x-pen in the quiet small animal room where the bunny was. And… it seems to have gone great! They ignored each other for a minute or two, then some sniffing, head burying, one or two mounting episodes by the female, one or two rounds of circling/jumping by Ralphie, and within minutes they were grooming each other. Of course Ralphie was demanding constant grooming, but the female was happy to comply. They had a few more ‘jumpy’ moments but considering they had never met I think it went great.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Ignoring is definitely a good sign!!!

[Clarajb]

UPDATE: Pepper (the new female) was spayed 7/16 at the shelter. No complications – learned that she’d recently had a litter in the past 6 months, the poor girl!

So, I brought her home today. She was a MESS- feet soaking wet in urine, mats on her feet, rear end, unbrushed… She had a foot bath, and we spent the next hour grooming her! She was such a doll – loved being groomed, grinded her teeth while I brushed her, let me cut all of her mats out of her fur…

Anyway – my question – the cage set up…

Ralphie’s dog crate (which is open much of the time) is in the corner of our dining room. I set up Pepper’s cage right next to his, a few inches apart. After her bath/grooming I put her in the cage. She immediately started eating hay, sniffed over to Ralphie, and then kept eating. Now, Ralphie, who is always extremely friendly and gentle, was very anxious – jumping all over his cage, scratching…

I then made a mistake – put hay in his litter box while still wearing the clothes I’d bathed Pepper in – oh man, he bit me… HARD… for the first time. Of course I realize that I smelled like her, and put my hand in his territory, nothing HE did wrong, my mistake…

My question is this – is it okay to have their cages side by side for now, or should I keep them across the room? Much of the downstairs is Ralphie’s ‘territory’ as he runs all over, but I don’t know if it would be a good idea to keep them further apart to keep Ralphie less stressed out? Pepper has been acting like she’s been here forever, lol. Please – just need some reassurance that this set up is okay for now!

[LittlePuffyTail]

I would probably leave them close together for a few days to see if he calms down. Or you can always put them apart and gradually bring them closer together. She smells like the shelter (and any other rabbits that were there) right now so that’s probably one of the reasons he’s so upset.

Make sure to wait several weeks for her hormones to die down a bit more before starting any bonding work. Until then, you can switch litter boxes daily and see how that goes.

[Clarajb]

Thank you – that sounds good – he has calmed down on and off – seems to like eating hay while she is. Do you think I can still let him have free range as he usually does? I let him out tonight and he was trying to get at her through the bars of her cage, so I put an xpen around her cage and now he is hopping freely as usual.

The female is doing fine – using her litter box beautifully and binkying in her small cage, haha.

[LittlePuffyTail]

I would still let him have free roam as long as he can’t get at her. Just make sure wherever you start your bonding is 100% neutral.

[Clarajb]

Update: 2 weeks went by and today was the first day of bonding. I took them to the basement, where neither has been, in an x-pen.

There were 1 or 2 moments of nose to nose touching, but for the most part, Ralphie was chasing the new bunny around- I’m not sure if he was attempting to mount her, but she was running away before he could do much. He took out a mouthful of fur too, but no skin/blood. She stomped her foot several times and just stayed down motionless, upon which Ralphie continued to explore the X-pen and munch on some lettuce.

I did spray him with water a few times to get him to stop chasing her – but I am concerned about Ralphie getting over his ‘territorialism’ about his area. And the new bunny is frightened/laid back to the point that she doesn’t even seem terribly interested in being around him, and would rather just be left alone.

I know that this is VERY early on and I’m not giving up. I would be lying if I said I’m not discouraged/disappointed! As I had replied in a different member’s posting, I did receive some advice from a local HRS but I would like any more thoughts on others who have successfully bonded after a first experience like this.

Thanks!

[Clarajb]

So day 3 of bonding is complete. Slow and steady I suppose. I moved neutral areas so now I put them in an xpen in the kitchen with litter boxes, a box open on both ends, hay… My male is absolutely looking to be dominant but this far my female has shown every submissive sign possible lol. Despite him pulling her fur out and boxing whenever she is near she still seems to want to be close to him and has laid stretched several times close to him. Lots of individual grooming, seemingly competitive flopping and ignoring in between bouts of grumpiness by my male. Minimal chasing. Both eating and exploring. The female was even binkying! … To be continued

[LongEaredLions]

Looks like they are slowly becoming acclimated to each other, the female faster than the male. Keep us updated!

[Clarajb]

Thank you!
Day/ session 4

0-20 minutes. Buns completely ignoring one another today. Both eating, exploring, stretched out, still in xpen neutral bonding space. First day I don’t have to clean up tufts of hair from Pepper. Ralphie tenses up a bit when she gets too close.
20-30 minutes- One or two mild episodes of chasing and lunging when she tried to sniff him. She still is super curious and continues to binky. Ralphie has been chasing her out of various spaces on and off. What is cracking me up is the over exaggerated flops from Ralphie- he never does those- so clear that he is saying “I could so care less that you’re here. I’m not afraid of you and I’m so bored that I’ll take a nap.” May break this up soon as Ralphie continues to chase pepper out of litter boxes, other corners of the xpen that he has clearly determined are his.

[LongEaredLions]

Ignoring is good. My bunnies did a ton of this too-fur pulling, chasing, that kind of stuff. As long as it isn’t too serious, you just have to wait it out. :/

[Clarajb]

Okay phew. Very encouraging, thank you!

[LBJ10]

What you’re describing definitely sounds like progress. It is a good sign!

[Clarajb]

Session 5: Today was the longest session yet; a little over 2 hours in the xpen that I’ve been setting up in the kitchen for bonding time. Ralphie continues to exhibit dominant behavior. Thankfully Pepper continues to show no interest in being dominant. Again, there was NO fur pulling today by Ralphie – yay!  There was also no chasing (beyond chasing Pepper out of a litter box), just lunging here and there, and lots of ignoring.

Pepper is definitely curious about Ralphie and would like very much to be near him. Ralphie is increasingly tolerant of her proximity to him but if she attempts to sniff him too closely, particularly when he is eating hay or lounging, he will lunge. Once or twice today he plowed into her side to chase her out a litter box. She does scamper away from him to (understandably) avoid the lunges but honestly if there was a bunny equivalent of of eye rolling, I think Pepper would do it.

Pepper’s body language is very comforting to me as well. She continues to binky during the bonding sessions, and is happy to explore and eat hay or greens. She stretches out, not in a competitive way (unlike Ralphie’s majorly dramatized flops) but in an “I’m happy to be here” way. Day 1, she was terrified and wouldn’t move. I’m glad to see that 5 sessions in (granted, in a different space than day 1) she is relaxed.

Of course I would like to see them grooming each other and enjoying the other’s presence overtly, but I’m remembering to be patient. At one point today Ralphie seemed consider eliciting grooming, but decided instead to mount her. Again, more eye rolling on her part.

I think I would be much more concerned if she was beginning to assert dominance as well.

In between bonding sessions they continue to have ‘home bases’ side by side, with layered barriers, lol, as Ralphie would try to nip at her through the bars if given the chance.

I will be on vacation so this is my last bonding session for a few days…

Also important to note that I was fairly stressed myself during the bonding session (packing, writing out schedules for my kids and the buns), and I’m certain that the bunnies picked up on it, as there wasn’t nearly as much lounging as during the previous session. Amazing how sensitive to our moods they are!

[Clarajb]

Session 6 (I snuck in another session 2 days ago before leaving for vacation- this was 24 hrs after session 5.)

Ralphie seems to be back to his chasing/ fur pulling antics today, although I’m not cleaning up nearly as much fur as I was initially, and the chasing is very fleeting. It is difficult to watch what appears to me to be frequent bouts of bullying by my sweet bun; however, after a few moments of seeming stressed Pepper was fine throughout the session.

I continue to bond them in the same spot (xpen in the kitchen with 2 litter boxes, hay in each, and a tunnel.) 6 sessions in and Ralphie has yet to show any indication of enjoying her presence, sigh.

I’m wondering if I should switch up the bonding environment. Day 1 was in the basement and went terribly (in my eyes at least) but I had no distractions in the Xpen that day. I keep reminding myself that *my* timeline is not necessarily Ralphie’s, and I certainly don’t want to ‘fix something that isn’t broken. Previous feedback, (which I really appreciate!), has said that the interactions thus far seem totally normal, so maybe I should continue in the same location.

They continue to have cages side by side and Ralphie free ranges while she is well within his view, so his top bunny position is probably being reinforced each day.

I am grateful that Pepper continues to show no desire to be dominant and still likes to lay near Ralphie, usually next to a litter box while he grazes, which he will tolerate with annoyed indifference until decides to launch himself into her side to chase her away.

Oh, lots of poop marking and chin rubbing by Ralphie- so interesting as he hasn’t done that since he was first home with us before he was neutered!

Last tidbit- the bunnies seem to use both litter boxes equally in the xpen. So Ralphie definitely knows her scent!

So, there’s session 6. If anyone has thoughts on the need to switch up environments or feedback in general please share!

[Clarajb]

My bonding area (I closed closed the Xpen a bit when the buns began ignoring one another more:

[Clarajb]

Brief but significant moments of peacefulness (Ralphie is brown, Pepper is white):

[LittlePuffyTail]

Awwww….they are so cute!!!!!

I probably wouldn’t switch the area unless there is serious aggression. Give them time to work it out. Sounds like they are slowly getting used to the idea but are not yet falling in love. Keep at it!

[Clarajb]

Session 7: upon returning from vacation I immediately set up the bonding area. A few days off seems to have helped slightly. Nothing too new to report except that for a few moments here and there they were wedged in a litter box together, sort of awkwardly, with Ralphie joining her rather than chasing her out (although he did his fair share of that too). A few seconds where Ralphie considered eliciting grooming and instead chose to mount her several times. Pepper kept her head and body very low whenever they were together in the litter box and tolerated the mounting behavior. A few tufts of hair were pulled by Ralphie but nothing significant.

I realized that part of the dynamic is effected by Pepper’s flightiness- she is a somewhat nervous bun and there were times that Ralphie just wanted to sniff her and she would flee from him like crazy. Or maybe she just isn’t comfortable fully around him yet, not that he has given her reason to be!

More ignoring and mutual hay eating (in separate litter boxes). I have to put greens on opposite ends of the pen because Ralphie lunges at Pepper if she tries to eat greens near him. Sigh.

However- I can leave them for a few hours (supervised) at this point without Ralphie’s territorial behavior escalating, and Pepper does not get stressed for extended periods of time anymore.

I’m just really eager to see some indication that they are enjoying the other’s presence rather than merely tolerating each other. Slow and steady!

To be continued…

[CooperLop]

Sounds very promising! If it doesn’t work out I will happily take your rabbits, they are gorgeous… They would make a perfectly complimentary foursome with my 2, look at how the colors match up

[Clarajb]

CooperLop- haha they do look similar! Your two are adorable!

Session 8 (yesterday)- lots of mounting by Ralphie, which is new, since Pepper seems to be allowing him near him to do so more. A few episodes of lunging from Ralphie. Lots of poop marking from Ralphie and some fur pulling. Lots and lots of ignoring.

[Clarajb]

Session 9… WE HAVE GROOMING!

I was feeling rather discouraged, as the session started out with mounting/ lunging from Ralphie and a few moments of him literally jumping over her or stepping on her with her motionless… But I looked back and … Pepper was happily grooming Ralphie 🙂

[Clarajb]

Quite a milestone:

[CooperLop]

Yay!!!!!

[Clarajb]

Sessions 10, 11, 12: I haven’t written day by day because the sessions have become so similar. I wouldn’t say they are falling in love quite yet, but they are definitely more comfortable around each other. Ralphie continues to lunge here and there but mounting has subsided. I have increased their bonding terrain to the whole kitchen, which I guess is semi-neutral. Pepper has groomed Ralphie a few more times. As I write this they are sharing a Timothy hay cube- I’m very surprised because Ralphie is typically very territorial about food. Slow and steady…!

Sharing a hay cube:

[LBJ10]

It doesn’t have to be love at first sight. What they are doing is all perfectly fine. You’re definitely making progress with them So glad it is working out. =)

[NuggetBuns]

Congratulations on the bonding progress! You might think it’s slow, but if they’re grooming by session 9, that’s pretty good =) Keep doing more sessions and extend the time each time to get more interaction. Your buns are really adorable, they do look like CooperLop’s buns.

[Clarajb]

Thank you! It does feel slow but I am super happy with the progress.

I can leave them alone for several hours (supervised) and I no longer need to double barricade Pepper’s cage when Ralphie is out. They love sharing greens now during bonding which is great. They are flopping very close to each other but not yet together.

Pepper is still skittish around Ralphie, even though he is suddenly wanting to be near her often!

I shifted their cages to the living room from the dining room a few days ago (made it easier to have them out, and safe from table scraps!) and it seems to have sped things along. Maybe a change in scenery was needed…

[Clarajb]

Continuing to have bonding sessions, now lasting several hours. The settings have become progressively less neutral. Now I let them out together in the dining room, which is where their cages were until a week ago when I moved them to the living room.

Understandably it continues to be inconsistent between the two of them, but no all out fighting. Pepper has only groomed Ralphie about 3 times and it has been in an x-pen in totally neutral territory. Ralphie has picked up his chasing/ fur pulling a bit in the past few days.

New cage setup is pictures below.
This works great because it allows Pepper much more free range space than she had when they were cramped in our dining room side by side. Ralphie still has free range of the rest of the downstairs.

[Clarajb]

Well, at some point yesterday Pepper jumped the fence over her area so I came home to find them out together! And surprisingly they were quite peacefully coexisting. No grooming but some closeness in a litter box, only 1 episode of quick lunging by Ralphie and the rest of the time they just sort of hung out near one another. Wow. I am pleased, especially since Pepper was actually in Ralphie’s cage.
Not quite a bonding setup that I’m looking to repeat exactly but they must be more acclimated to one another than I had thought!

[Clarajb]

Love is in the air…

I believe that my bonding saga may be approaching its final days.

Ralphie and Pepper have been free ranging together for 1.5 days now, all day. Their cage doors are left open and they rotate between the cages, individually and sometimes together.

Pepper has been grooming Ralphie more consistently. He is very eager to be around her now.

I’m going to start looking for an enclosure to fit both of them. I’m surprised what a difference a few days has made.

Very (cautiously still) optimistic!

[Clarajb]

Falling in love…

[Author]

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