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FORUM THE LOUNGE Interesting Breeder’s POV on Diet

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    • KytKattin
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        I was looking up on google if rabbits can eat grapefruit (before I remembered that Binky Bunny has a list!) and I found this posted as a reply to someone’s question. I thought it was really interesting the comparison between how a (typical) show breeder raises rabbits versus someone who has them as pets. Espeically since this person didn’t ever list how old her rabbits typically live, and doesn’t mention that there is often a vast difference in quality of commercial pellets. If I were to go to a pet store and randomly grab 10 different types of food I think I would be lucky if I found one that was appropriate for a rabbit over 1 year old, not to mention half of those that might be appropriate for baby rabbits probably also include things like dried corn, peas, and sunflower seeds! One thing that does always surprise me is that typical breeders tend to not give unlimited hay. I’ve always reasoned that hay bought in bulk is way cheaper than pellets!
         
         
        It’s not really a good idea to feed a rabbit vegetables and fruit. Most fruit and vegetables are at least 75% water. They are normally very high in digestible energy (DE), very low in fiber, and normally low in protein.

        Yes, rabbits like to eat them. And many people that haven’t raised rabbits all that much think they are good for them. The truth is that for the most part they are not good for your rabbit. Here are some reasons why:

        1.) Most vegetables and fruits are high in digestible energy, sugars, starches, and carbohydrates. A high energy diet, especially when it is low in protein is bad. Excess energy that doesn’t get used turns into fat. And since the vegetables are also low in protein, that means they lack the nutrients to build and maintain muscle. So the rabbit may get lighter. But it gets lighter because it is losing muscle. And at the same time while it is losing muscle, it is gaining fat.

        2.) Vegetables are low in fiber. Vegetables and fruit may seem like roughage to us. But for a rabbit, roughage is plants that are woody in nature like the stem of a piece of hay. Roughage/fiber moves through a rabbit’s system faster and by doing so helps it avoid diarrhea. A rabbit’s digestive system is made to conserve water and small food particles that are normally high in energy or protein. Those small particles get moved back from the colon to the cecum where fermentation occurs. The more small particles, the longer fermentation occurs. The longer fermentation occurs the higher the risk of diarrhea because it allows the bacteria a longer time to grow in the cecum. So vegetables being high in small particle content and water do a really good job of causing diarrhea because they fit that description of small particles and high water content to a T.

        3.) Young rabbits are affected more than older rabbits are. Here’s why. Adult rabbits have a very high acidity in their stomach, quite a bit higher than most other animals. Their acidity pH is about 1-2. For most animals it’s about 5-6 or so. That high acidity helps rabbits kill off bacteria in their food helping to keep them healthy. Baby rabbits don’t get that high acidity in their stomach until they get older. That’s because their body is going through the change from digesting milk to digesting solid food. Young rabbits have a stomach pH of about 5-6. So it won’t kill of bacteria like an adult will.

        Think of vegetables and fruits like desserts to a rabbit. They like to eat them, but just like desserts they arent’ really the best for them. So if you give any, significantly limit the amount you give especially if the rabbit is young.

        Especially avoid fruits since they are high in sugar. The funny thing is that many of the people that will tell you to feed vegetables will say to limit the amount of alfalfa hay because it is too rich. Let me give you a quick comparison between the digestible energy of alfalfa and a couple of different vegetables and fruits:

        DE = digestible energy = kcal/kg

        Alfalfa: 2000
        Apple: 3300
        Banana: 3500
        Cabbage: 2370
        Carrot: 4000
        Celery: 2600
        Lettuce: 2200

        As you can see, all of them are richer in calories than alfalfa. And more calories means it is easier to get fat.

        Now lets look at the fiber of each of them becaue that is what keeps the rabbit from getting diarrhea.

        Fiber %

        Alfalfa: 30%
        Apple: 5.8%
        Banana: 2.1%
        Cabbage: 17%
        Carrot: 9.4%
        Celery: 10.2%
        Lettuce: 11.2%

        As you can see, alfalfa has double the amount of fiber that most of the fruits or vegetables do. Also take notice of which two have the least crude fiber. The fruits do. So the fruits have the some highest chance to give your rabbit diarrhea. If you look at the digestible energy, they are right near the top there too, with only a carrot having more energy.

        So be way more concerned about feeding too many fruits and vegetables than feeding too much alfalfa hay.

        The data for digestible energy and fiber came from the book “Rabbit Feeding and Nutrition” by Peter R. Cheeke. He’s a professor at Oregon State University and works at their Rabbit Research Center in the Department of Animal Science. You’ll see the book or author mentioned in many rabbit books concerning animal nutrition.

        I don’t guess at what works. I utilize research that comes from good sources. The main diet for your rabbit should be the rabbit pellets. They are formulated by animal science nutritionists to give your rabbit a balanced diet. If you want to give your rabbit something in addition, give it a small handful of hay. Feeding your rabbit something because it likes to eat it without really knowing how it will truly affect your rabbit isn’t smart, especially if it is fed in more than just small quantities.

        I’ve been raising and showing rabbits for 25 years and I studied animal nutrition at Purdue University. While growing up, my dad and I normally raised a herd of about 100-200 rabbits.

        I see a number of people give advice about rabbit nutrition and then I see, “Owner of two buns.” or “I’ve raised seven rabbits.” When I was at that point I knew almost nothing about rabbit nutrition compared to what I do now. I’m not trying to put the other people down, but carefully examine the source of the info and experience of the person giving you advice.

        PS – Also keep in mind that some fruits and vegetables contain toxins that can build up inside your rabbit’s kidneys and liver. The toxins may not affect the rabbit immediately, but over time they will.

        • 10 months ago

        Source(s):

        Rabbit Feeding and Nutrition
        Author: Peter R. Cheeke


      • Kokaneeandkahlua
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          Some of that I’m completely sure is wrong-the part about acid in the tummy to kill bacteria-it’s to chemically start breaking down food-the same reason we all have low pH in our stomachs….. The fibre part is good, but we don’t feed alfalfa because it’s high in calcium not because of the fibre. Theres nothing wrong with alfalfa fibre content. And fibre content is not why we feed veggies-its the vitamins and trace nutrients.

          Anyways I won’t tear the hole thing apart, I’m sure we all see the major faults…

          I find that people who raise animals as livestock have different ideas on feeding. That could be related to what they are raising them for and lifespans but I’m not really sure why??


        • Sarita
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            Well, I have to say I don’t agree with this at all. Pellets should not be the mainstay of the rabbit diet (unless you ask someone who manufactures pellets of course or a vet that works for a company that does that). Pellets are basically bunny fast food in my opinion. Grass hay is more natural and it’s high in fiber and vegetables. I don’t see many rabbits in the wild eating pellets.

            It is interesting – there is so much stuff out there on the internet too that it can be confusing to people.

            I looked up Peter R. Cheeke too and he’s an animal nutritionist but he deals mainly in agriculture animals from what I can tell. His specialty is raising rabbits commercially rather than for pets too…ick.


          • Beka27
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              i found it interesting that they refer to the veggies as “dessert” while we would all give that title to the pellets or carrots/fruit/treats.

              i’m not even sure what the digestible energy is about. he mentioned it… like 50 times. are they calories? i don’t know… it does seem to be more the diet of convenience and “cost-effectiveness” over a diet meant to prolong the life and health of ONE bunny. i’m pretty sure that if they raised betw/ 100-200 rabbits CONSISTENTLY, that they were not aiming for longevity or health of individual rabbits.

              like with most topics, people can manipulate info to support the results that they want to prove…


            • RachelF
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                After reading this(and other misconstrued articles) I know why some first time bunny owners are way off on the diet aspect– using the internet to find out how to feed/raise a rabbit can really lead you down the wrong path!


              • Binkles
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                  Ugh, these breeders need to keep their breeder-y ideals isolated to the the breeder-y ring and STOP trying to give advice about domestic bunnies to domestic bunny owners. *headdesk*

                  Seriously…pellets as a mainstay? Have they never encountered GI stasis before? Actually, they probably have, unfortunately…without knowing it. Theirs would be the case of the bunny that just ‘stopped eating and died’.

                  Also…Alfalfa?? What the heck? This person refers to Alfalfa as if it were the preliminary choice hay for adult bunnies. No, no, my poor misguided friend; we use Timothy. Alfalfa is too high in sugar/ calories. It DOES have more fiber than Timothy, but usually if you’re free feeding Timothy you won’t need to worry about fiber since bunnies just naturally constantly graze and will inhale the Timothy.

                  (Last note:…whaaat? Vegetable toxins? xD I suppose then that someday the medical examiner is going to tell my next of kin that I died of renal failure because I ate too much salad.)

                  However, what they said about veggies providing little in the way of fiber is absolutely correct. I learned this the hard way with Little-Bit -when I was feeding her too much greens, she cut back on her hay intake and started having constant GI problems.

                  Veggies = not a good fiber source. Too much veggies = negative hay intake = not enough fiber.


                • wendyzski
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                    We get a fair amount of polite but firm disagreement on most of the forums I’m on between breeders and houserabbit folks.  We try to keep it polite, but I do think they’re wrong.

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                FORUM THE LOUNGE Interesting Breeder’s POV on Diet