Insights and advice on trio

[mia]

Trying to bond NewBoyBun to my resident GirlBun and SeniorBoyBun. SeniorBoyBun is good with everybun and easily got along as usual. So, for the first time, I’m mostly just working with bonding the other two, rather than trying a trio because I don’t want to stress SeniorBoyBun out.

GirlBun is apparently super territorial and it’s taken a while for her react negative to NewBoyBun. Currently, in neutral areas, GirlBun has progressed to literally licking NewBoyBun from nose to bum. NewBoyBun is super expressive for every little thing (earthquake level thumping, loud grinding teeth, binkying to the point of bouncing off walls, etc) and super skittish/jumpy/bouncy. NewBoyBun is still thumping at GirlBun a little, but also grinding his teeth when laying a foot away from GirlBun in neutral territory. There is no bad behavior. The neutral territories are small areas, 2’x3′ and 3’x3′ but they mostly stay close since i don’t line the entire place with soft flooring. I am confident I can leave them there all day without issue, though I’m not sure about overnight.

They sleep at night in normal area, or between neutral territory sessions, but are grid separated, alternating between who stays with SeniorBoyBun. They are not cordial even with a grid between them. Once in a while, I tried to put them together in normal area but all hell breaks loose. GirlBun will try to get near NewBoyBun and he shoots off like lightening thumping and sometimes so badly that he basically bounces around the pen. The faster he goes, the more GirlBun then goes after him nipping (if SeniorBoyBun is together, he gets caught up as victim of GirlBun too). NewBoyBun gets angrier/more scared and bounces more zooms off and now GirlBun is super aggressive…

The normal area is carpeted with the pen area having a liner and fleece on top of the carpet. I have vinegared the liner, completely new fleece, and tried to vinegar as much of the pen as possible.

For reference, I put NewBoyBun and SeniorBoyBun together while NewBoyBun was still thumping like crazy at him and still quite bouncy too but SeniorBoyBun is very calm and stopped reacting quickly. After a couple nights, no more thumping and they progressed in their relationship.

[DanaNM]

so, this all sounds pretty positive. You want to wait until they are basically bonded in neutral space before progressing to non-neutral. So I would do some overnights next in neutral territory. I think it’s also time to start working with all three together, so you may want to work with all three during the day until they are doing well, then either start marathoning them or do some overnights. I usually don’t progress to non-neutral space until they’ve been living together in neutral space for at least 48 hrs with no aggression and lots of positive behaviors.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[mia]

They’ve already been able to be in neutral for 7+ full  consecutive days without issues, and many more non consecutive moving between neutral and non-neutral. I’ve added SeniorBoyBun and it doesn’t matter whether he’s there or not. They somehow can’t seem to move to non-neutral regardless of size of non-neutral. I’ve scrubbed/cleaned the carpet, changed the liners and fleece, use the same litter box that’s used in neutral, and pinned up sheets around the x-pen so they can’t see out and still not working out the non-neutral.

The behavior immediately changes between the two areas. NewBoyBun is guarded and immediately bounces/zooms away if GirlBun gets near and then GirlBun goes after him- e.g. NewBoyBun eats normally in neutral with everybun but when in non-neutral, he tiptoes in and takes a pellet and runs away to eat pellet away from everybun.

After the 7+ full days together, I decided, screw it, let’s see how long I can let them be together in non-neutral. I didn’t sleep for the 4ish days they were together and I gave up because I needed sleep. NewBoyBun bouncing off the sides of the pen like a ball while GirlBun eventually gets mad and grunts/chase/nip and then I have to go yell/spray water/bust out a grid if it doesnt stop and make sure no bun gets hurt. A few minutes of quiet and starts again. One time, GirlBun and SeniorBoyBun were in the middle huddled together while NewBoyBun goes round and round like 5 times running super fast scared for his life, luckily GirlBun didn’t go after him. Sometimes a bun will hop behind NewBoyBun and set him off, which then sets GirlBun off.

Maybe I’ll have them live in neutral area for an entire month but it’s a very small space… I can give outside playtime but I don’t have energy to let all 3 out, one at a time at different times.

[LBJ10]

How old is the new boy? Perhaps he just needs to settle down more.

[mia]

Haha, because of his energy, the shelter told me NewBoyBun was 1yr but in their paperwork from one yr ago, they already wrote 1yr while their vet wrote 2yr (something about the condition of his balls -_-). They gave him more pellets than they gave normal buns. Don’t know if this matters, but he was part of a large scale breeder dump/fled thing and there were many young buns and brand new babies, but he was “older” compared to the rest.

GirlBun is 2.5 yrs.

[LBJ10]

Hmm… perhaps he is younger than they thought he was. It might explain why he’s so hyper. Like if he was 6 months old, then maybe he’s 1.5 years?

[mia]

Paperwork from shelter vet said, age related scrotum wrinkles (I’ve only seen fixed buns before so *shrugs*).

[mia]

Could be. Thought it was his personality and it’s people mistaking his energy for age because he can be calm. I have to trim his fur and he does super well. Left to his own in a small space he’s calm too,just like to jump on things. He is the first bun that I always have to grid in to pick him up, otherwise too fast; I’ve very calm/gentle and cannot do rough pickups.

Regardless, would that small difference, 2yr vs 1.5yr make that big of a difference in bonding? All buns I’ve dealt with are at least 2yr with my current girl the first young bun (adopted at 4 months) but I haven’t really seen huge changes other than her learning.

[DanaNM]

That’s so hard. My only thought would be to try some different neutral spaces that are larger. Maybe if they can get used to a larger space that’s neutral first they wont have as many issues in the non-neutral?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[mia]

They have been in neutral 2×4, and then expanded to 4×4, for over a week around the clock. This not an open 4×4 but a 2×4 and then a doorway out to another 2×4.

What I’ve learned actually, is this has little to do with neutral vs non-neutral; it just happened that way because my neutral spaces are small. When NewBoyBun thinks he can run, he runs at the speed of a binky500 bouncing around, which triggers my girl. He is very skittish and anxious. There was another 2×4 neutral area that I had to abandon because he learned he could run. The current 2×4 is a small half-bath so one feels closed in and knows they can’t bounce around. The additional area is a small hallway outside the half-bath, also walled in.

There’s been absolutely no issues but NewBoyBun doesn’t sleep with the other two. He sleeps, at first 3ft away, and now 1.5ft away. They do interact but he’s still a bit on his own. I think I’ll try to wait until he sleeps with the other two?

But, I don’t know how to proceed from here. I can them fighting/chaos if I move them but current setup cannot last. Human can’t move around and they also don’t have much room.

[LBJ10]

Have you tried any 1-on-1 time? It sounds like your pair has a really strong bond and they are happy to shut the new bunny out.

[mia]

No no, in the half bath/hallway, they are all great! The sleep on their bed together, eat together, have nose to nose secret meetings, etc. Fully bonded in that space, if there is such a thing. They have been around the clock consecutively since 11/1 with another two weeks prior, and more time prior but not consecutively. Never had issues at all, just more tentative in the beginning.

I just can’t move them elsewhere, or more likely, to what seems like an more open space, even if it’s penned.

[mia]

🙁 They still can’t get along.

I forced them together for about three weeks in the larger/open area. It progressively got worse ending with… They were eating pellets just fine but when NewBoyBun hopped away, GirlBun went to nip and NewBoyBun squeeked; I could not find any injuries so I think he was just terrified. I thought I’d just let SeniorBoyBun and NewBoyBun get closer but NewBoyBun took out his frustrations on SeniorBoyBun and chomped him, no injuries other than fur pull but SeniorBoyBun is senior so that’s unacceptable.

So, they’ve been separated with the bonded duo on one side and NewBoyBun on the other for 1.5-2months. Over that time NewBoyBun has calmed down a bunch and also gotten bigger…??

There’s been a few trips to the vet and they all go together just fine. Today was another and I decided to try again after coming back from the vet. First in the “small” area which went fine as usual so I cleaned the open area and tried there. NOPE. NewBoyBun progressively zooms faster to stay away from GirlBun yet he was grooming her a tiny bit in the “small” area for the first time… GirlBun is super dominant and she doesn’t quite understand gentle grooming but she really needs somebun her speed. I know they would be great together, though NewBoyBun enjoys himself quite a bit, if they could just get along… ARGH.

[LBJ10]

I’m sorry it’s still not working. 😥

So he did grow? So he was younger than you thought?

[mia]

LOL I don’t know. GirlBun is the youngest bun I’ve had, at 4 months when she arrived; she is the only bun that has grown in my care. For other buns, NewBoyBun was the only bun that I was told 1yr+ vs 2yr+ (same shelter). Can they grow after 1.5yr? I thought at 1yr, they should be set in personality (assuming fixed) and growth. I actually googled if rabbits bulk up for winter because I’m so confused about him.

He also changed coats. Started super thick and fluffy, like his lionhead cheek fur puff is all over his body. Then, in patches, assuming where he had his fur pulled ish, a darker and more coarse black and not as fluffy, and it grew slower pace. Even the vet was like, Uh ok… interesting guy. I joked he wanted proof that he was being bullied. Now he’s back to super thick and fluffy but a tiny bit different from before.

 

He was part of https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/evicted-backyard-breeder-abandoned-dozens-of-bunnies-rescue-group-says/ but supposedly not one of the young ones.

(Link checked by Bam)

[LBJ10]

Hmm… got bigger… changed coat… all signs point to a young bunny. LOL  But, yes, who knows. If he came from a hoarding situation, it’s possible they mixed him up with another bun when they were processing intakes.

Would it be possible to partition the larger area off? I’m wondering if gradually adding space would help.

[mia]

I just looked at his history. Intake at shelter he was 2.2. He then went to foster, got neutered, and 6months later came back to shelter weighting 2.6. Another 6months later adopted from shelter and he’s 2.3 and then he was 2.2 at my vet. He’s now 2.8. Maybe he gets stressed and lose weight when near other buns but now more ok and so gained.

They are still in x-pen in the larger area. Everything is literally the same when I tried before except what’s outside the x-pen. Same fleece flooring (what’s under fleece is different material), same size x-pen space, same litter box, same hay box… Have even tried clipping cloth on all sides of x-pen so they can’t see out.

I’m putting them together in small area during the day (they snuggle consistently there now) and back to separated in larger area at night. Will retry all previous methods after doing this for a bit.

[LBJ10]

Maybe. Stress can cause them to fluctuate a little bit, that’s for sure. I’m guessing he’s just a very energetic bunny.

As for the partitioning suggestion, what I meant was you could make a small area (i.e. where they get along) progressively bigger to see if that helps.

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