I’m so upset

[Ashleyyy]

I don’t know what to do. My bunny Duke has been so mean latey… He’s always been a grump but he’s gotten to the point of being vicious. Anytime I try to pet him or even give him a treat he lunges and tries to box me. He just seems to be unhappy? He doesn’t even like getting out of his pen. I open the door and he may take a couple steps out but goes straight back in and lays down. Then today, I’m currently trying to bond him and my other bunny Beau and I’ve had a few sessions in another small room and they have fought a few times, but I spray them with water and they calm down and ignore each other… Well, I decided to do the cube method. I put Duke in and as I was trying to put Beau in, Duke just attacked. So I reached in to take Beau out and he bit me as hard as he could. And I know it was deliberately for me, because he kind of climbed over Beau to do so. I think he hates me. I just sat there cyring hold Beau with my bloody wrist… I’m just so frustrated, I want him to love me (and Beau) and be happy, but I don’t know what to do..

 

UPDATE: Are you freaking kidding me?! Now they are grooming each other through their cages… Is it me? I don’t understand!

[kralspace]

Don’t be too hard on yourself, Ashleyy, I don’t have any advice to give, but the others will be online in a bit I’m sure. I’m sure Duke doesn’t hate you but I’m sorry he bit you. I have a nipper who gets me at least twice every time I pick her up. Are you wearing any lotion or using a strong smelling soap?

Stay with us, help will be here shortly,

Kathy

[Ashleyyy]

Thank you. And no, I’m not wearing any lotion. I think he was just out to draw blood lol

[Sarita]

Remember these are reactions with Duke, not emotions. Bonding is extremely stressful and he’s having to learn to trust Beau.

Allso when you start bonding, you are changing a rabbit’s routine and they don’t like that. You have to do this of course in order to bond your rabbits.

Part of bonding as well, is that it is as stressful for you as it is for them so I think some of it is you stressing.

[mrmac]

Like Sarita said they are just reactions, as scary as they may be. Duke may just be more succeptable to stress and react differently than Beau. Duke’s routine had totally been thrown off. It is NOTHING about you at all, you just happened to be the closest non-bunny thing. If he would have bit Beau it would have started a huge fight between them. In a way, a weird way, be glad it was you and not Beau because that could have really upset their bonding. Bonding is stressful for all parties involved. Them then grooming each other throught he bars is a sign that is had nothing to do with you. Bunnies moods change minute to minute, they are in that one moment. Next session I would advise that you have some work gloves or oven mits, just in case. Don’t get discouraged!

[Ashleyyy]

I haven’t been discouraged the whole time. I’ve had about 3 sessions before today, and there were small fights that I quickly ended (Duke starting them). But today it was immediate which it hasn’t been before. I’m worried that he’s just mean and will never get along with anyone. But then again they lay next to each other through their cages and for the first time today they groomed. I’m so confused lol I’m actually kind of convinced that Beau is in love with him, and it hurts me to see Duke treat him that way. I would be fine with Duke hating me as long as he could be happy with Beau. Could Duke be depressed? I don’t know how depressed rabbits act.

[4Lily]

I feel so bad for you right now! Though I haven’t bonded before, I have had a biter, so I know how you are feeling! Maybe Duke needs some extra attention with just you & some treats when he is being nice to you! He is just reacting to something & is probably feeling stressed! He DOESN”T HATE YOU! Don’t take it personally, it will all come around & be good!

[4Lily]

I used to think that Buttercup was just a visious & mean bunny! But he really wasn’t! He was really starting to come around, it took alot of love to train him not to be mean to me!

[Ashleyyy]

See the thing is he seems like he doesn’t want attention. When I open his pen he won’t come out, and when I try to pet him in his pen he grunts and tries to box me. I actually tried to give him a raisin yesterday and grunted and jumped away. I don’t understand his attitude with me lately.

[mrmac]

He is just putting up a fight about the bonding. Keep up with the sessions. He will come around, it usually has to get worse before it gets better. He obviously doesn’t hate Beau or he wouldn’t be laying next to him through the bars or grooming at all. If he really didn’t like him he would attack even more so in the pen because it is closer to “his” area. Is there another neutral area that you could hold sessions in?

[Ashleyyy]

The only other neutral room is my moms room lol And I guess the bathroom although I’ve brought Duke in there to wash his feet once. Would that be considered neutral?

[mrmac]

I would use the bath tub, very neutral. It is slippery, which will make it harder for them to get at each other and easier for you to grab them if needed. If they are still getting at each other you could also put like an inch of water in the bottom with a small towel for footing, just something to take their edge off.

[mrmac]

You can also put them ina box or a laundry basket (though you will have to twatch to make sure they don’t jump out) and put them on top of the washer or dryer. Car rides are also good.

[Ashleyyy]

For the second session I put them in a laundry basket and ran the vacuum cleaner around them. They were okay until I let them out (not sure if I should have done that or not) and then a few minutes later Duke went after Beau. Should stress bonding be ended after a few minutes of stress or should there still be some time afterward with no stress?

[mrmac]

Keep the sessions short for now and always make sure you end on a good note (holding them both on your lap while petting them both at the same time and rub their ears together to spread their scent, give them a treat together whether they eat it or not) Since Duke may not take the treat I would do mutual pets during the sessions as well. Put them in the tub and push them together, keep them together and pet them both firmly. If that is all that you can do, leave it at that. They were ok in the laundry basket while you were running the vacuum, keep doing that. Do not let them out. Keep up with those kind of sessions but do not let them out to even get at eachother. You can run the vacuum, then turn it off and do mutual pets, if they start looking like they will go after each other then turn it back on for a few seconds and repeat. The main thing is not letting them even act aggressively towards one another. The goal is that they get more relaxed around each other and see one another as safety and comfort. You could also use a hair dryer. The sessions do not have to be long they can be 5-10 minutes to start with, but they must end positively. Once you see that they are relaxing and are getting more comfortable around eachother, you can extend the lenght of the sessions.

[mrmac]

Remember that you are in control of the sessions. You are the one that will not allow aggressive behaviors, you are the one that determines when they go back to their pens, you are the one that decides when they get a treat, etc. Don’t let the bunnies get the best of you!

[Ashleyyy]

Thanks for the advice! Haha I know it’s so easy to let them push me around, those jerks.

[Michelle&Lolli]

I had to re-bond mine after Lollipop had to be at the vet’s for a day. Eddie was a little mean bleep bleep bleep to her. lol And it was sooo frustrating cause like your bunnies, Eddie would totally go after Lolli if they were put together, but when I’d put her back into her pen, he’d go lay down next to her. I have a picture of them, both stretched out, Lolli in her pen, Eddie on the outside next to her. The most bizarre thing ever. LOL

Like the others have said, it sounds like Duke is just in a pissy funk right now. Eddie was like that when I had to re-bond him to Lollipop. Just a general little arse – being mean to me and Lollipop. For all the stress and fighting and frustration, one day they will all of a sudden be bonded and will act like nothing ever happened and they’ve been friends forever. Mine were bonded when Lolli humped Eddie. Eddie then humped her. And poof – bonded. I was still afraid of letting them be together, but they were fine. hehe

[mrmac]

Haha yes they can be quite over powering sometimes!

[Nibbles_NZ]

Posted By kralspace on 07/06/2010 01:12 PM
Don’t be too hard on yourself, Ashleyy, I don’t have any advice to give, but the others will be online in a bit I’m sure. I’m sure Duke doesn’t hate you but I’m sorry he bit you. I have a nipper who gets me at least twice every time I pick her up. Are you wearing any lotion or using a strong smelling soap?

Stay with us, help will be here shortly,

Kathy

I don’t know much about bonding since mine live alone right now but I have noticed that when I was using my really good smelling body wash, Baxter acted different towards me. More aggressive. He didn’t bite me but he didn’t at all act like he liked me. I changed my body wash and he acts normally around me now. I thought that was the strangest thing. I hope you find the answers you are looking for and good luck.
 

[Deleted User]

Posted By Ashleyyy on 07/06/2010 01:57 PM
when I try to pet him in his pen he grunts and tries to box me.

Hm, maybe you could try petting him when he’s not inside his pen? He might just be really territorial of his space (and the bonding might be making him even more territorial than usual). If you try petting him when he’s outside of his pen, he might be okay with it, since you’ll both be in a “neutral space.”

For example, although Edmund likes it when I pet him while he’s in his pen (he didn’t use to), he still doesn’t like me touching any of his toys inside his pen. If there are toys outside his pen, he doesn’t mind at all.

In short, rabbits are just incredibly finicky creatures. I think very few rabbits are “all bad.” It just takes a lot of time, patience and careful observation to figure out what each individual rabbit is okay with and isn’t okay with affection-wise. Let’s just say It’s taken many, many hours of me sitting on the floor with Edmund for him to finally tolerate (and dare I say even enjoy) my presence.

[RabbitPam]

It’s been a couple of days. Any improvement?
I agree that the territorial behavior may be part of what’s going on with him. Is he letting you pet him outside of his cage? If so, than it’s a factor. If not, watch his other behavior, ie. eating, pooping, grinding teeth. Illness can make a bunny more aggressive.

[Izabella]

My bunny is nipping too.. And fighting each time I put her away.. Some days are better than others. ..One thing I did notice, is when I let her out in a smaller area, like a small hallway versus the large living room she is much easier to control and more friendly.  In a smaller space she wants to climb up on my lap, and even up near my face.  Sometimes she nips, but never breaking skin.  I like to think they are kisses.... But we are still trying to stop them by following her mouth with our hand, so she can’t bite.  Seems to work most of the time.

So, I have to wonder, if your bunny is missing time  with you while you are trying to bonding the two together? Is that possible?  Do you sit down with them so they can climb on you if they want?  If the space is too big, Izabella is not interested in me at all, she wants to explore and potty everywhere she is not suppose to! If I keep the space small, she is friendly, more well behaved, and better potty trained.  As she gets older, I will give her more space.  But right now, we are both better off with more control and less space.

Good luck,

Gin

[Ashleyyy]

I got Duke to come out of his pen a little last night and he let me pet him a little. Duke’s not really the affectionate type and he hasn’t jumped in my lap since he was a baby, and I think then he only saw me as an obstacle. I guess I’ll just have to work with him a lot. I usually just give up when he won’t come out of his pen, but last night I left it open for a while and he finally ventured out. I just worry he’s not getting enough exercise since he never wants to play…

[jerseygirl]

I agree with Merbella’s suggestion about territory. He may be a bit more protective about his safe-space at the moment due to changes in his routine i.e. bonding.

My only other thought is try do bonding sessions when they are in the more active, social mode. It may be that you are getting him out when he wants to sleep. I know my boybun with give me attitude if I try bother him out of his hidey box.

I think if he starts to go off food, that will be a sure sign that he’s down or feeling poorly.

[Deleted User]

Hi Ashleyy, I once received a deep bite from my rabbit during a session in my lower back. It happened in a room, as I got between the two bunnies. I was frustrated to say the least.
–About the cube: this method is extremely stressful in the beginning. I bet that’s why you got bit. For the rabbits to be crowded in together in the cube is the opposite of what unbonded rabbits want. So when you do your first cube session, you need to add in a stressor. For example, use the cube on top of your washing machine during the spin cycle, or introduce the rabbits to the cube on a car ride. The cube plus stress will take the edge off and set them up for more predictable behaviors inside the cube. Rabbits learn what to expect from being cubed, they know it’s bonding prison and no way out. You must wear heavy gloves, though, because you may need to reach into the cube.

[Ashleyyy]

Thanks Petzy. I haven’t tried a session with them since because I’m giving them time to chill out a bit. I’ll start up again next week.

As for Duke, at the moment I think someone came in my house and replaced my rabbit. Not only is he coming out of his cage. He has learned to unlatch the pen and escape. He did this the first time last night while I was asleep and later today while I was at work. Just a minute ago I closed the pen back up and he unlatched it and ran out doing binkies lol. He seems like a very happy bunny right now. Hopefully that will last.

[Michelle&Lolli]

Ah yes, a bunny who knows how to escape. Lolli’s my escapee. If she can manage it, she’s out. And yes, she runs around and does binkies.

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