I need to decide.

[Bougatsa]

As I see it there are 2 things I can do. Try not to hate me if I sound like a bad person.

I can leave her unspayed. She will always be in danger of cancer and later on she might have false pregnancies and other problems. Plus she will never be fully litter trained. This will mean that she will have to stay in a small area of the living room with me having to go in there to spend time with her. She will be lonely cause spending time in a pen is a lot different than having a free roam bunny as she used to be. Our relationship will only be me petting her sometimes and nothing more as the only things she does all day is try to hump her ball or dig endlessly. I will always worry that she might die of cancer. And the fact that she wont be litter trained means that I will clean every single day and that when I will have to leave her to my parents she will be caged the whole time. I dont know how she feels and how she handles hormones as she hasnt become aggressive yet neither had false pregnancies. She just digs like crazy. I dont know if it is fair for her to live being sexually frustrated most of the time.

Then I remember how I felt when I had to clean every day for two months with us having minimum bonding with each other. It made me feel like I had no pet at all and just put myself into cleaning pee and poo for years. It was frustrating after some time. And it made me want to give her to another family for adoption. I wanted to find someone from the greek forum to adopt her. Someone who is more patient and has experience with animals. And I know that if I decide to keep her unspayed in a pen unfortunately I will soon do the same thoughts. To me Phoebe is my first pet and I cant handle it very well. Lately I am so stressed out that I think I am going nuts. My mother says that there are other things in life more important and I should stop worrying so much for the bunny. If I put myself into the situation I was those last months I am sure that I will hate animals, give her away and just continue with my life having guilts. She needs to be loved unconditionally.

If not I will have to spay her and be prepared that she can die. It is 50-50 as I see it. If she dies I know I will be depressed for a long time and feel guilty too. I look at her face and think that she might die and it breaks my heart but on the same time I wonder if it is better for her than living a lonely life being sexually frustrated or a life with someone else who will not spay her too. It makes me sad to think that she will be with someone else that I dont know and might have a low quality life. The best that can happen is she surviving the spay…then I wont have to worry that she might get cancer or be sexually frustrated and she will be easier to litter train. If that happen she will be free roam again be able to bond a bit more and I will be able to let her to my parents whenever I need it.

I am thinking about all these things over and over again in my head for such a long time that I am having trouble sleeping or eating. Then I get mad to myself for being like that because of an animal and I think that I should give her away and after a while I regret it. I just cant do it anymore….

[LizzieKnittyBun]

I’m so sorry you’re going through this! First of all… don’t beat yourself up for caring so much about “an animal.” We like people like that.

Also, veterinary medicine has really come a long way. There are vets specifically for exotics now, and spaying bunnies has actually become fairly routine. It’s rare that a bunny dies from this surgery nowadays. I was scared for my buns when they got fixed, but they came through with flying colors, and I’m sure yours will too. I think that if you give her away because of these anxieties then you may end up regretting it. Also, her new owner may spay her, so the change will have been for nothing.

Pets and children and loved ones create anxiety for us because we love them so much. But what they give back makes it worth every moment of grief because you have a love in your life that is meaningful.

This decision is ultimately yours to make, but I recommend the surgery, because it is so safe and routine nowadays. Afterward, you will have a healthy pet who will have your attention and lots of exercise and likely live a long, full life because of you.

[RabbitPam]

Bougatsa,
I am primarily concerned about your worry over this. I urge you to go ahead and get her spayed. It has caused you escalating anxiety for months, and that’s not healthy for you at all. The one thing to bear in mind is that a bunny is going to live a shorter life than a person and die at a time when you will experience it anyway, probably as a young adult. But if you were to read over your post, you would see that you make a compelling arguement for having her spayed. You will deal with her death When It Happens, and not before. It is very rare that it will happen as the result of a spay. Bunnies usually die from an illness in their digestive tract that they mask or from old age, at about 12 years old. They hide it, so you might not even see it coming. A spay is under controlled conditions, sets her up for a healthy life, she’s in the hands of a professional with equipment to help her if something goes wrong, so it’s optimal for healthy survival. I think you need to get this over with and well behind you. The anticipation is causing you much more harm than the event.
I think you need to consider finding an understanding person to help you with your anxiety. You shouldn’t be living this way and there are ways to get help to give you relief and coping skills. If you have a doctor, nurse or counselor that you can honestly go to for assistance, you will find ways to get those coping skills that will serve you will in all situations, not just with your pets. With help for the anxiety, and you’re not alone in that by a long shot, you can learn to have a fulfilling life with pets, family and others. I guess I’m taking the spotlight off the bunny as the issue and changing how you look at this. She will be fine from the spay. If she isn’t, we’re here for you. But this will happen to you again in other situations and where your mother is missing the mark is telling you to stop worrying. You can’t. But other experienced people can help you learn to. I say this will all compassion and kindness.

[Ham Sangwich]

Bougatsa,

Where do you live? I volunteer at a rabbit shelter, we have probably spayed 500 female rabbits over the last few years and as far as I can remember we’ve only lost perhaps 5 and i’m sure 4 of those were because we discovered they had cancer already during the spay. If you have a qualified Vet that has done the procedure multiple times you will be fine. The real issue is simply the sedation of the rabbit, which an experienced Vet will be very, very comfortable with.

Let me know what area you live in and perhaps we can find you a good Vet or recommend a shelter you can contact to see who they use. They may even assist you with the spaying for a nominal fee.

[Karla]

Ham – Bougatsa lives in Thessaloniki, and she has no other options that the vet she has already consulted. The vet is a specialist.

Bougatsa – I think RabbitPam says exactly what I wanted to say. I agree with everything she says 100%. Close your eyes, take a deep breath and get it done. Quickly! Should the unexpected occur and she will pass, then I promise you that it will happen without pain, which it won’t be if she suffers from anything else down the road. And you will have fought to give her the best living conditions she could ever imagine in your area.

But I promise you, that all this worry, is not worth it. Don’t worry about something that has not happened yet.

We are all there for you. And I really urge you to book the appointment as soon as the school opens – for your own mental health and for Phoebe.

 

[Bougatsa]

At some times I think a bit positively “the vet hasnt lost any bunnies yet and my bunny is perfectly healthy and always was, and the vet of Athens recommends her, so why should Phoebe be the exception?”. And the moment I feel comfortable to spay her I snap and I worry again and I remember how the vet is not very encouraging and is against spaying. This makes me believe that she is not comfortable doing it and I wonder why since she hasnt lost any. And I remember the other people of the greek forum that are also too scared by what the vet said and decided not to do it. And I dont know how many spays she had done. For example if she has done like 5 spays and lost none it is not worth talking about it. If she has done 20 then it is a bit okay. There is no way she has done more…

I look at her beautiful little eyes being so alive and I say to myself “I can keep her alive for some more years even if this means that I will have to struggle through this”. I also imagine myself giving her to the vet for the spay with her having no idea that it might be her last day. And I have 2 different pictures in my head. The vet coming out and saying it all went fine and me being so happy and taking her back home. Or the vet coming out and saying she lost her during surgery and how she had warned me and instantly regretting so much that I was reason she died, that wonderful little creature that trusted me more than anyone else and can be in my hands dead.

Are there any ways that the vet can see if she has any underlying medical issues that can make the risk higher? And is it true that a dwarf that is 1 year old is in more danger during the surgery? Because she says that dwarfs are more sensitive and that the spay is best to be done before the bunny is 1 yr old…

[Monkeybun]

My vet does spays on bunnies of all ages. Being 1 year old is fine, its when they are much much older that it gets riskier. I’m talking 10 years old here.

I think you just need to bite the bullet and get it done. You are doing yourself alot of harm, being so anxious I’m sure Phoebe will be fine afterwards, and you will have her a long time. We’re here for you, and will give you support during the procedure. Don’t worry so much!

[MissKris&Koji]

I think you should do it. You’ve said you will feel bad and guilty if you don’t spay her, that’s definite.

It’s possible she could pass on with the spay, but at least there is a 50/50 chance that she will make it, and then you will both be happy. If she does pass on, you will feel bad and guilty.

To me, it makes sense to take the chance, to at least have SOME CHANCE of being happy in all of this. If you don’t, you are just agreeing to letting both of you be miserable, and that doesn’t seem very logical. If she really seems unhappy, it is the best thing to do. I think most people agree you shouldn’t keep an animal alive when it no longer has a good quality of life in the case of illness, I don’t see why this should be any different. It is of course up to you to determine if you think she is happy as she is and has good quality of life, or not.

 

As for age, 1 year is not too old at all. They don’t spay as young with girls as they usually neuter the boys, usually like 8 months and older is recommended for spays I have heard. So I don’t think she is too old at all! I think the vet is just saying those things to prepare you – vets and doctors always have to tell you what could possibly go wrong. I think it sounds like her chances are better than 50/50.

[Dee]

I agree that you should go ahead and get Phoebe spayed so you can stop worrying about it. I tend to worry obsessively over things, especially about my pets, so I understand how this decision must be tearing you apart. I do the same thing when I’m unsure of what to do- back and forth, over and over, through each best case scenario, then several times through each worst case scenario… it is endless and exhausting, I know. But in the meanwhile, time is going by- time that we can never get back. Hours and days that we could have spent truly enjoying life… I try to remind myself of that when I start becoming consumed by fear.
It sounds like the vet you spoke with doesn’t think that spaying is an absolute must. This is just her opinion though- it doesn’t mean that she won’t do a good job spaying Phoebe. If anything, her being cautious and outlining the risks could be a good thing- I would prefer a vet to remember that there is risk in any procedure and they need to be ready for anything. Of course, it would be helpful to know how many rabbits she has spayed. As you said, if it’s just a few, then she is relatively inexperienced and her success rate isn’t that significant. If she has spayed over 20 bunnies without incident, then that is reassuring. I do think that vet is biased on your having Phoebe done at her office instead of the school. But the school is also a good option- these are students working on the animals, but they are being supervised and they are concentrating more fully than many long-time vets, since they are excited to be operating and want to do everything perfectly.
I was thinking of what Karla said, and she made a very good point- in the VERY unlikely event that somthing should happen to Phoebe during surgery, she would not suffer. If she doesn’t get spayed and she gets cancer, she will probably suffer horribly. I have read an article by a woman whose female bunny was not spayed, and got uterine cancer- it was heartbreaking. I wish I could remember the name of the author/article- I think it would completely convince you to run right to the vet and get your bunny spayed! I truly don’t think anything will happen to Phoebe during her spay- and I’m sure you will be incredibly relieved afterward. And Phoebe will thank you when she is free of “bunny PMS”

[Bougatsa]

In the end of the month I will call the vet and ask her if I can go there to ask her some more questions on the spay…ask things like how many she has spayed, if she does a blood test before, if she gives pain meds etc. Based on what her answers will be I will make the final decision cause I’ve really tortured myself enough. If she gives me the right answers I will do it. If not I will leave Phoebe unspayed. The problem is that I dont know what to expect from her. Her attitude is very rude and I question whether she will be polite enough to answer whatever I ask. You remember when I asked about what anesthetic they use she said that its not my bussiness.

Any tips on how to ask what I want without letting her bully me once again? I want her to understand that it is very important to me to know these stuff and take me seriously. How can I deal with her if she starts being an ass again? I am in such a state lately that if she refuses to answer I will start crying, I know it that’s how I react when in anxiety.

[bunnytowne]

Yipes  I kept getting page not found then figured out I had turned off the internet button on Pinky.   Anyhoo I finally got to reply

Mark Twain said something like      So many times I have worried about things and for al lthe worry none of the bad things ever  happened.  

Something like that.

Ok.   Just go into the vets office  with lots of confidence.  Even if you don’t feel confident.   Use the ol’  fake it til you make it. Stand up be confident be bold.   If you have to pretend to be an actress if it helps do so.

IN this manner the vet may take you more seriously.  Be brave be strong.  Stand up for yourself and your bunny. 

That said  do spay.  Of course we worried ourselves the day b4 and the day of a spay or neuter.  For what?  They came out fine. It is rare to lose a pet during these precedures.

My friend has lots of rabbits and never lost a one during a surgery.  

[BinkyBunny]

Do you have a friend or family member that can go with you and be your support when you ask questions. I know your father got mad at her last time, but someone that will be able to confront and yet keep a level head about them? As it certainly is your business to know what anesthesia that is being used. IF she gets defensive about these things, I would just say…
“This is my responsibility to know as much as I can about the procedure so that I can make an informed decision as I weigh the risks.” If she asks you what difference does it make what you know about the anesthesia or any other question, you can tell her what you have learned about it and why it’s important for you to know.

I do understand though if you are feeling intimidated or anxious about it so that’s why I suggest having a strong support person to go with you.

[jerseygirl]

From what you’ve reported of this vet before I really don’t know if she’s going to tell you anything you want to hear. Does her clinic have a practice manager of sorts that you could talk with instead?

I think it is wise to put this aside until next month. Concentrate on your own health and peace of mind. (((Bougatsa)))

[BinkyBunny]

Posted By jerseygirl on 08/13/2010 08:41 PM
From what you’ve reported of this vet before I really don’t know if she’s going to tell you anything you want to hear.   

Oye.. …Good point.  

[Bougatsa]

Maybe the best I can do for my own mental health is to find her another loving family. Something that was supposed to be a good experience has ended up being the worst time of my life. I cannot do it anymore and I know that at the end I wont have the courage to take her for the spay. I know I wont be able to do this move… Don’t get me wrong, I love her so much but I think that it’s not fair for her to be with someone like me. If I she is to be left unspayed apart from the danger of cancer I know I can’t deal with the rest of the ‘hormone stuff’. I know I am a bad person for thinking like that and I hate myself but there are others that are comfortable with this and can offer her a better life. I am only 20 years old and I feel like I have the responsibility of a child and that is not normal. What I have to do is to find someone responsible that loves bunnies.

I just cant get her for the spay I am TOO F****** SCARED for her. If only I could have someone of you by my side, which is impossible to happen, maybe I could find the courage but I cant. And if I dont do it I know that it is going to be something that will torture me the rest of her life. I will always think that she may die, I will have guilts for giving her very limited free time and it is always going to like ‘what would have happened if I took the chance’. Honestly if I knew about all this before I would never get a bunny cause I know I dont have the strength for having such a responsibility.

….I love her and want the best for her but at the same time I cannot continue living this way…it causes me a lot of pain..

[jerseygirl]

You are terribly hard on youself. You are not a bad person. To me you just sound very overwhelmed. I wish there was a way we could help more.

Bougatsa, IF you can find someone right for her and you feel in your heart it is the right thing then perhaps it may be best for Phoebe. I do worry that others where you live might have the same problem as you have had. Finding someone they feel confident in performing a spay.

Again, I’m sending you warm thoughts and prayers that you can come to a decision that is best for you and Phoebe. *Hugs*

[LizzieKnittyBun]

How would you go about finding Phoebe a new home? Do you have any friends who have expressed interest in taking her?

[Bougatsa]

I dont have friends that would want a bunny. If I give her for adoption I will look into the greek bunny forum where there are people that love bunnies. I will never give her to someone that has no idea about bunnies..it has to be an adult animal lover that would keep her for the rest of her life. Whether they will spay or not it is something that they will have to decide… Actually in the greek forum there are many people from thessaloniki that have females but none of them has spayed them because they are also afraid…you see they have all talked to the same vet and they dont want to take the risk like I do now… The best chance for her to get spayed would be if she were adopted by someone from Athens but that is unlikely to happen…

[Karla]

I always feel so sad when I read your threads. You sound like such a good person, who is completely overwhelmed by all this.

Bougatsa, do the spay. And don’t book another appointment to ask more questions to the vet. It won’t make a difference, because she will never be able to provide you with the answers that will make you feel good about the decision. It will only postpone your decision.

I have a friend who suffered from anxiety, and her psychologists actually urged her never ever to ask any questions regarding her concerns. And we – friends and family – were told never to answer her in these regards. Because she would ask lots of questions all the time and worry so much about things. It really helped her not to be able to ask those questions and be even more tormented when hearing our answers. Of course, treatment involved other things as well, but not being able to constantly focus on her worries by asking questions really helped. So, please don’t ask the vet more questions, it will do you no good. And you have no other vets to chose from, so the answers won’t make a difference.

Do you really want to give up Phoebe? There is nothing wrong in giving her up if it is causing you so much distress. However, I really think you should go all in for her now and do the spay. If she pulls through, you have her for many years from now. If you give her up, you will loose her anyway. If you understand what I mean?

Please don’t worry now. You and Phoebe will be fine.

[LizzieKnittyBun]

I think Karla makes a really good point when she asks… do you really want to give up Phoebe? You have mentioned several times that you love Phoebe. It is your decision to make, but before you make it you should try to imagine how you will feel if you give her up for adoption. Is there a chance that you may seriously regret this decision? Is there any possibility that you might give her up only to realize you were mistaken and then potentially end up with another bunny, or another animal of a different kind?

What made you want to get Phoebe in the first place?

[Bougatsa]

LizzieKnittyBun I never had a pet and at times I asked my parents if I could have and the answer was always no. Last year, when I became a student in the city, I was thinking that I’d like to have a pet to care for that will keep me company. I couldnt get a dog because I live in an apartment and I think a situation like this is difficult for both the human and the animal. And I neve really loved cats… So I started thinking about getting a hamster or a squiller or a rabbit..and then I met a girl at school and she said that she has a male bunny and how nice and clean and friendly he is. I always liked bunnies and thought they are the most beautiful animals… And I acted very irresonsilbly and got my own rabbit without doing a lot of research. I mean I came across the forums a month after having her and I wonder how this happened since I had looked up about rabbits on the internet but obviously not enough.

Karla I just know it that it is impossible for me to put her in the carrier and take her to the vet. I even think about it and in no time I have the image of the vet giving her dead to me, and me holding her body alone in the city without even having a place to burry her. I absolutely cant do it, the moment I say that I will spay her it all changes in my mind and I just am too afraid to do it.

I think that maybe I can make a last effort and talk to my parents again like I did last time and try to convince my father to come with me. I know that if I have him by my side to comfort me through this I might find the courage and spay her. I know it is going to be difficult to convince him but it is my last chance. If not I know I wont do it and my only option will be to find her a family which will hurt me but will be a good thing in a long term.

[Ham Sangwich]

Bougatsa,

If it helps think of it this way. You have to be a strong mother, strong mom’s are loving, supportive, nurturing, but will always do the right thing for those they care for regardless of how much stress or anxiety it may cause them. Being nervous about animal care happens, but believe me this is an important step. Take her to the Vet on your own, and say to yourself that you are going to do this so you can get experienced at taking an animal to the Vet. When your little bun is returned to you after surgery and you get her home and she starts eating and drinking and appreciating pets from you you will be so glad you did it and feel fantastic about your parenting skills. Additionally it will help you feel more comfortable when you have to take your bun to the Vet again when there is a problem (believe me, these bunnies will figure out a way to make you nervous about their well-being a few times in their life).

Confront your fears head-on and you will overcome them and feel great about yourself. You can do it, your bunny is strong, she can make it through the surgery no problem.

[Moonlight_Wolf]

I think you should definitely do it, Once it is done and over with you will feel soo much relief that it will feel like the earth was lifted off your shoulders.
I know it is stressful, I was so afraid for Fern when I had to get her spayed, but I did it because I knew it would provide her with a longer and happier life.
Also I knew that if I didn’t do it then I would worry for eternity that she would get uterine cancer. The worry that she will get cancer and die was greater than the worry that she would die in the procedure. I mean spays are a very routine sugary. If she was having an abscess removed from inside her or anything that was out of the ordinary then I would REALLY worry.
I understand your worry and concern for your bunny, but I don’t think you should be pulling out your hair about it. I definitely don’t think you should give her up because of it. Imagine how much regret you would feel if you did that.
When you go to the vet just don’t think about why you are bringing her, don’t think about it at all. Just bring her in drop her off and leave. It really isn’t that hard if you don’t think about it. Maybe listen to some calming music in the car.
I wish you good luck, I’m sure you’ll eventually do it, you just need to get over your fears and JUST DO IT!
Good Luck!

[LizzieKnittyBun]

I remember when I took Remy to get fixed, I was so scared that I cried. But I knew, in my heart, that it was the right thing to do for him, and that knowledge kept me going.

Talk to your dad. Make sure to tell him how much his strength would help you to do something that is important. If I remember right, he’s gone with you before to ask the vet questions. Hopefully he won’t mind taking one more trip. Tell him that you’ve always known you could depend on him, and you need him now during this important task.

Afterward, you may want to consider talking to someone about your anxiety. I, myself, have OCD and a panic disorder, and I take medication for my anxiety because it’s too much for me to control. It’s not your fault, nor is it something that is “wrong” with you. Some people’s neurons just act a little differently than others’. If you’re a student, there may be someone you can see within the educational system. Students, even without anxiety disorders, are often horribly stressed, and many schools offer counseling as a free service for their student body. It’s possible that there is a lot of help available to you that you were not aware of, and seeking it out may provide an incredible relief.

Please keep us posted, and good luck!!

[Kyoshi]

Take a deep breath. I have anxiety problems too, so maybe I can help. Sometimes you just need to suck it up and face it. It’ll help tons, trust me. I would do the spay. If she dosen’t, she will be sufferring, and you’ll feel awful. I dont think it’ll be helping either if you are never seeing her, and dont know what became of her, if shes happy, scared, sick or even alive. If you do the spay and lose her, at least you know you were doing the best thing you could for her, and that can help you sleep. And if shes alive, then great! Everythings better, easier, and happy. You have 3 options and 4 outcomes. In the end, if you decide to leave her unspayed, you have a very slim chance of being happy. Giving her up, even slimmer yet, and your anxiety just wont quit, might even get worse. Spaying, 50-50 chance. I know this is hard. I cant tell you the fear I had with little Toot in that cat carrier, with those stubborn vets who took everything the wrong way. Do it. Are there any other vets? If you had a vet you trusted and felt comfortable with, you would probably lose 50% of your anxiety. I wish I could be there to help. You obviously love Pheobe, all this anxiety is proof. You want whats best, so get her spayed. I dont think it would really help at all to give her up. If shes uncomfortable, would’nt you want her with you, someone who definetely loves her? I wish you so much luck. ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Lucky Vibes for Phoebe!))))))))))))))))))))))
((((((((((((((((Relaxing Vibes for you)))))))))))))))

[RabbitPam]

I think Karla and LizzieKnittyBun both make excellent points. I firmly believe based on what you’ve already told us that any further discussion with this vet is futile; upsetting for you, and will not help her work, your decision, or your bunny. While she seems very abrupt, she may actually already know what Karla described and be working with your anxiety in a tough but effective way by refusing to continue answering your spiraling questions. She’s your spay option – it’s a simple yes or no at this point.

You only need to decide to make the fundamental decision: Keep her and get it done and over with, or give her away. I’m glad you explained the circumstances in which you got her because it is a big responsibility and not the best choice for a first pet. My feeling is that you need to take care of yourself right away, and LizzieKnittyBun suggests an option for students that I think would benefit you enormously. You have anxiety that needs treatment from a caring person right there, not online. See a school counselor. This is about your worries more than your pet.

As for your bunny, you may feel some relief if you found her a new home with a loving bunny owner. You may feel relief after the spay, but you will be facing other issues with her down the line, so the counselor will help you learn to cope with that if you keep her. Be aware, though, that considering giving her up is another way your anxiety has escalated the problem to make you feel even worse. Plus, describing imagined scenarios of her death, than writing it here, makes it more real for you – the opposite of ways to handle anxiety. That fantasy is hurting you.

Here’s an option: if you decide to give her up, you can get yourself a guinea pig instead. They are easy, cuddly, require much less medical care, and a great starter pet. If you find your bunny a new home I would urge you to get a piggy immediately.

But if I were going to make a clear recommendation it would be in this order:
1. book an appointment for the spay with the vet. No discussion with her, just bring her in and get it done. Do not cancel.
2. Book an appointment with the school counselor in the next few days. Begin regular visits. It will take you several appointments just to explain. Ask if they have a prescribing physician they work with.
3. When you start to think about this, immediately turn on a funny movie, or pick up a book or magazine. It’s hard for the mind to focus on it’s tapes in your head when you fill it with other words and images. Don’t call a friend or jump on line with it because you will just play it over and over that way. Get distracted instead.

Does this make sense to you? We care very much and see you suffering and there are many ways to handle this that will be very helpful.

[Bougatsa]

Thank you all for supporting me!

I had a talk with my mum cause I couldnt take it anymore. After telling her all my thoughts on the matter she adviced me the same thing you said. Do the spay and just expect for the best. Since it is the only chance that something good will happen she said to do it and stop making scenarios in my head. I dont want to give my bunny away, but I cant keep her unspayed not only for the worry of cancer but for the litter habits (I would have to clean pee and poo for the rest of my bunny’s life, for years probably) and other behaviors that might occur down the road (like start being aggressive).

I decided that I will do the spay in the end of September, when I am back to the city for good. And I asked my mum if she can come with me, and she said OK she will take the bus and be there for me to support me.

I know that my vet isnt the best choice someone could have but she is the only option available. Just hope for the best. I want you guys to make me believe that she will be fine and pull through the spay even if wont happen. I need to be encouraged until the spay and not start thinking again that she might die. If she does, I will know it was pain free, dying while being unconcious. There is always a risk but it is for the best of both of us and if it happens I will have to deal with it and get over it with some help from you and my family. Just continue saying that without the spay she would never be truly happy and so would I. 

And I hope that if everything goes well I will encourage more members of the greek forum to spay as they are all too afraid, like I am. But I have no other choice as if I give her away I will always miss her and worry about how well she lives.

I need support!

[LizzieKnittyBun]

Bougatsa, I’m so proud of you for making this tough decision, and I have on doubt whatsoever that it’s the right one. It isn’t easy being a responsible pet owner, but you’ve chosen to do the best and healthiest thing for your bunny, and I’m sure it’s going to turn out just fine. From now until then, please rest assured that you’ve made the smart, conscientious choice.

And we’re here if you ever doubt yourself!

[jerseygirl]

You will definately have our support and I’m happy to hear your Mum will come to support you also. Book the appt now then put it aside and enjoy the rest of your break. Those negative thoughts will creep in so get on top of them fast. Like Pam suggested, distract yourself so they don’t start to take hold. Sending (((hugs)))!

[Karla]

You are so good, Bougatsa! And I am so proud of you ’cause you are not only doing something good for Phoebe – you are most likely changing the lives of other bunnies in Thessaloniki as well seeing everybody else is afrad of getting their bunnies spayed! One small step for Bougatsa, one giant leap for lots of bunnies!

Be positive and remember just how many bunnies you actually help by doing this. Little Phoebe will be a role model for years to come

 

[Bougatsa]

Oh Karla this will only happen IF my girl makes it through the surgery. If not then there is no way anyone else will try it later. Most of them do not have any behavior related issues and when it comes to cancer they prefer to let their bunnies get pregnant once a year. Some do not believe the cancer statistics.. I myself am not really sure whether the risk is that high but I do know that there is always the danger. I know people who had females that lived up to 8 years.

I am not going to tell anyone of the greek forum that I will do it. I will only share it when it is done. I know that they will make me worry again and try to talk me out of it. And I dont want to have doubts again.

[Deleted User]

Bougatsa, yes I would do it, even though risky.
Most importantly you need to find a decision and stick with it or this will eat at your heart and make you sick.

[LizzieKnittyBun]

I would do it too. It’s the healthiest, most responsible option for your bunny, even if it’s scary. This is the right thing to do.

[RabbitPam]

I’m so glad you’ve made this decision with your Mother’s support.
Quick question: why do you have to wait until the end of September again? I thought the end of August or very early Sept. was an option. I would urge you to get it done much sooner if an appointment is available. But book an appointment whenever you can get one. Way to go!

[Kyoshi]

Oh Good Luck to you! I wish you the best, and some more! Think positive, and only positive. I agree with RabbitPam, can you get it done sooner? Less time to start re thinking this, and you will have it done and over with sooner. And, YOU CAN DO THIS!

[Bougatsa]

My mother doesnt want us to tell my dad about this because I will probably be in trouble..I know I’d want it to happen right now but it cant. It is a secret we keep from my dad. So I have to go to the city with my bunny, make an appointment for her check up and arrange the spay with the vet.
I worry too that I will start to rethink but I believe that deep down I have accepted that it is the best I can do for my sake and my bunny’s sake in a long term. Whenever I feel in doubt I read this whole thread again and realise that I cant do anything else.
And I know I have all of by my side to get me on track again… They are going to be a few tough weeks until then but I will do my best to stick to my decision.

[LoveChaCha]

You need to have confidence that everything will be alright.

I was scared to death when my bunny got spayed. I would call the vets office to make sure she was alright. She was fine.

Having the spay done is very well worth it. You can relax more and enjoy your little girl and not have to worry about bad litter habits. No more carpet stains and circling.

She will be thankful that you have done this to help her.

I am glad that your mom is there for support

[jerseygirl]

Bougasta, when you have the check up appointment, the vet might question you again but stand firm and insist you want the spay done. She doesn’t need to know your reasons and there’s no point in getting into a debate. All you need to know is that she’s capable to do the procedure which she said she had done. I think it’s also important you ask then if Phoebe will be giving a long lasting pain med and/or if they give meds for you to give her. If you’re told “it’s not your business” just politely disagree. It is. And you are Phoebes advocate and main care giver so of course you need to know these things. You are also paying for these things. Stand your ground. You should not have to deal with this vets difficult personality at such a time but unfortunately you have little choice of others.

Anyway, this is to be dealt with then. For now, rest up knowing you have made the decision and be good to yourself.  I know a good distraction for you.  Take lots of pictures of this Phoebe and post them here! We don’t see enough!

[BinkyBunny]

I also commend you on making a decision about this. I know it’s been tough going back and forth, but I think that with your mother’s support you will be just find. Just try not to overthink this now. I know that may be difficult but as soon as you start “looping” it all in your head again, try to just silence it and think about something else. Sounds like your mother is a good person to get reassurance from as well.

[Bougatsa]

I will find another family for her. I cannot do it anymore and I cannot stick to my decision. It is better for her to be with another loving family than die on the spay.
I have given it a lot of thought. Even is she was spayed I will still have problems keeping her and I know they will cause only anxiety. I am in peace with my desicion. Do not judge and please dont make me feel guilty. I know it is the best for her and for me, I need to continue with my life. Thank you for all the support it was nice knowing all of you. My bunny-mum journey ends when I find the best family for her.
This desicion is final.

[LizzieKnittyBun]

Bougatsa, of course we’re not going to make you feel guilty. This was always your decision, not ours.

I’d love to keep hearing from you, especially as you go through the process of finding a good home for her.

[Monkeybun]

Definitely don’t want to make you feel guilty! Do what is best in your mind for your girl, and let us know how the search for a new family goes for her

We’d love for you to stay around as well, and get your bunny desire through us and our bunnies. They are always here for you to enjoy. Good luck!

[Karla]

If this is what feels right for you, then that is what you should do. We are all nice people in here, so no one is going to come down hard on you I am very sorry for what you are going through.

We are here if you want to find another family for her, and we are here if you change your mind and want to keep her – spayed or not.

In the end, you are the only one who knows what is best for you and Phoebe.

[jerseygirl]

I agree with all Karla, MB and Lizzie have said. We here to support you Bougatsa, even in rehoming Phoebe. If you are not going to stick around the forums though, I want to wish you & Phoebe the very best of luck & I hope you have a continued sense of Peace in what’s been a difficult time.

[LizzieKnittyBun]

Also, at the risk of being obnoxious, I still think you might want to look into talking to someone about your anxiety. I was diagnosed with a panic disorder and OCD a few years back, and I would be a walking nervous breakdown if I hadn’t gotten some help.

There’s no shame in getting assistance when you need it… everybody needs it sometimes!

[Bougatsa]

Wow I must be one of the weirdest people in the forum…!You must think I am a lunatic…

Well here is what is decided… I was too sad when I posted the thread in the greek forum to find her a family. I couldnt stop crying. But I also knew that I couldnt keep her like that. The spay is out of the question as you all know that I cant do by fear of her dying plus my parents think it is not what I should do and it wont help me as there are other reasons that make it difficult for me to keep her. But I dont really want to give her to someone else, I am not ready for it yet as I am still too attached. But on the other hand we agreed that I shouldnt take her in the city cause I will start being anxious again and never really relax.

So my parents (I love them so much) offered to keep her. She is litter trained in my bedroom. So she will stay there, with her cage. They will feed her exactly like I did and clean her litter box. When I am here (twice a month and on holidays) I will take care of her…my mum and my little brother (15) agreed to let her out for a few hours a day…my bedroom has a tv so I said that whenever they want to watch tv they can let her out to have some free fun time. She is familiar with both of them especially my brother who likes to pet her so she wont get too lonely. So for this year we will try that out and see how it goes. And if it doesnt work then I might find her another family..but at least I wont be so attached to her like I am now. I know it sounds bad but what I understood is that it is more difficult for me to give her to someone else..she would be fine with anyone within some time, but I am not. So later on if I find someone I can trust and feel confident in giving her to them I will do it.

I dont really know if I will continue checking the forum as I will be too jealous of you and your bunnies…it would be hard on me to see what I could have but I dont. So I am not saying I am leaving the forum but I wont be on very frequently. After all I care for you and I’d like to hear your news. So I wish you good luck with everything in your life and I thank you very much for the assistance you gave me.
 

[LizzieKnittyBun]

How wonderful of your parents to do that! I am so relieved : )

[Beka27]

Thank you Bougatsa, and I also wish you luck in everything and I hope you figure out the very best possible life for your bunny.

[Karla]

I don’t think you are a lunatic at all. I have always seen you as such a sweet, caring girl with lots of empathy, so I am sad to see you leaving the forum, but I hope that you will come back one day if you and Phoebe move back together or further down the line if you are ready for it, you get a new bunny.

Perhaps you could make her an X-pen so she has some more space in your bedroom? And you could put some vinyl on the floor where the x-pen is, so if any accidents happen, it won’t matter? I think that would make a great solution. Also, if Phoebe is going to live alone in your old room, maybe you could get her a stuffed toy, so she will have a bit of “company” when your brother and mother aren’t around?

I wish you the best of luck – and as LKB suggested, perhaps seek some counseling, so you can feel better?

[Kyoshi]

Bogusta, none of us would ever dream of guilting you, were herefor bunnies, and whats right for them. I wish you best of luck. I am getting a bunny soon, so we care share him/her I hope everything will go great.

[Bougatsa]

Karla, who could a stuffed animal work? I’ve given my old stuffed animals a few times but she never really cared…can it work if I get her a new one?
I will discuss an x-pen with my parents…she doesnt do any accidents in my bedroom though.
Oh and I an excited…we agreed that if I miss her (which I will do) I will take her back on January! She will be living half the year at my parents and the rest of it with me..and of course the whole summer with me. Like that I wont be very tired of the cleaning like I did before. And whenever I will go back to my parents I will use the ‘balcony technique’ that worked during the summer. The times I will be back with her will be in spring and summer so that we can use the balcony. Do you think it will work like it did now? At least we can try it out for a year or two..then I am finishing college and I dont know where I am going to be. Plus when I will go abroad next autumn it will be the time of the year she will be staying at my parents. I think it is a good solution and I feel relieved that I wont have to give her away. Do you think she will get used in having 2 homes?

Do you think this will work at all?

[Karla]

Yes, it will work. Don’t worry about it I think it sounds like a really great arrangement.

Maybe she is not the kind of bunny that likes stuffed toys, but so far I haven’t met one, that didn’t love it. Just make sure it has the size and form to fit her – like these ones for instance (it doesn’t have to be bunnies)

When Karl was living on his own, he had a stuffed toy  that he would hump, groom and sleep next to all the time. I know lots of single bunnies do that. Karl still grooms his old friend once in a while  So, see if you can find one that Phobe likes.

I’m happy for you. This sounds like the perfect arrangement.

About you being tired of cleaning after her – does she use her cage as a litterbox or is it the fact that she still uses the whole area as a litterbox? Because if it is the cage, then I cut a big black bag open, so it fits the whole cage, pour the litter over, and when it’s time to change it, I just lift the bag and put a knot on it and throw it out. No mess, no cleaning.

[Bougatsa]

In my house in the city she tends to mark a lot I dont know why. She would pee in 4-5 differents corners and poop everywhere. If you remember I tried everything to train her and had no success…it was two months of litterally cleaning after her. That’s what made it unbearable. It was tiring I had to pick up every single poop cause they were scattered everywhere and we would step on them..and she peed a lot too even on pillows.. Now at my old bedroom she is perfect, maybe leaves 1-2 poops and nothing else. She litter-trained herself in the balcony. I dont know it is a mystery to me…
It is no trouble for me to clean her litter box..

[Author]

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