Hunched bun?!

[Max2021]

Hello, Max is acting odd. He won’t eat his dinner. He’s drinking quite a bit of water and accepted one treat but that’s it. He just sits in this position. It looks almost like a loaf but it’s not. It’s as if he can’t get comfortable. His his tummy doesn’t feel hard. This is the first time he’s been like this and I’m nervous.

[DanaNM]

How is he doing today? That position definitely looks like he is in pain (especially the top photo). Not eating and drinking lots of water could indicate a dental problem, among other things, so I would get him to the vet ASAP. You can try offering pellet mash or softer foods to see if he will take those.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Max2021]

This morning I woke up at 4:30amEST and noticed Max pooped quite a bit outside of his liter box (nothing in the box).  Most poop were oddly shaped and different sizes. We immediately took him to the ER. The vet gave him .66ml of Meloxicam and 75 ml of subQ fluids and advised us to give him some Critical care when we got home. She also said to take Max to the primary vet for further evaluation since she doesn’t work with rabbits often.

We got in to see Max’s vet at 10amEST. She asked if Max had been molting a lot lately (which is the case). She said she suspects we are dealing with a minor hairball situation. She said the coloring of his gums seems a little off. An X-ray was taken. She said Max does have a little gas. She injected him with Metoclopramide and Buprenorphine. She prescribed him Benebac, Meloxicam and Metoclopramide. She also said to give him 5-10 ml of water every 8 hours, try to massage his tummy and to get Max moving.

His vet told us it will take 1-2 days to see poop/pee. She said if he seems to get worse, come back tomorrow.

I got Max to move around by slightly tapping his butt though when he finally sits down, he looks like he is absolutely miserable (worse than before).

**Max had an anual wellness visit one month ago and was fine…

 

[Max2021]

He tries to lay his chin flat on the ground but he can’t for some reason so he brings his head back up… it almost looks like he can’t breathe the way he is positioned.

 

[LBJ10]

I assume then they didn’t check his teeth? If things were being pushed up in his chest cavity, then that would have shown on the x-ray. Other than that, I don’t know what else could cause him to position his head weird unless it was a pain response involving his mouth. Dental issues can cause stasis and GI upset.

[Max2021]

The vet did check his teeth. She said the color of the gums seemed a bit off but didn’t dwell on it. Max has finally laid his head flat down and several times. He has nibbled on one or two pieces of hay but that’s it and he still isn’t drinking water on his own. While he is taking all the prescribed meds, is it absolutely necessary for him to be fed critical care. The vet told me to give him water every 8 hrs (5-10 ml) but didn’t really emphasize the critical care. I tried feeding him some but he looks pitiful when I do. He doesn’t want it.  Any thoughts on him feeding (he hasn’t pooped all day). Max is a bigger bun and weighs 7.6 lbs. Thank you.

[DanaNM]

Poor baby, it’s good you got him in and they did an xray, and the treatment at the ER likely stabilized him a bit until you could get him to his normal vet. GI issues do seem to pop up during heavy molting.

It can take time for the care to start working, so it was good that the vet reassured you. Keeping him warm and comfortable is important.

For feeding, a member here had the tip to use smaller syringes and I found that it helps a ton as well. I use the larger 6-10 mL ones to load up a few 1 mL syringes (from the back) and then feed that way. I found the bun swallows more, wastes less, and there’s less risk of them accidentally choking.

You can try mixing some canned pumpkin or mashed banana into the CC to see if that helps. There are also a few other brands of recovery food that you might try. Sherwood makes one and there is a product called Emeraid Herbivore Sustain that my buns all prefer to CC. Ultimately you need to get something in him though, even if he doesn’t like it.

The fact that he has pooped a little and eating a little on his own is encouraging. Did his Xray look at his teeth?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Max2021]

Thank you for the suggestions. I just rush-ordered the smaller syringes and the Emeraid Herbivore Sustain.

The vet took multiple X-rays but I don’t think any of the teeth were included. I will find out. She used an otoscope to look at his teeth. She is clearly experienced with handling rabbits but I’m sure there are things she cannot see that would be on a X-ray. What abnormality would we be looking for on the X-ray of the teeth?

Last night Max was biting a lot of cardboard. He wasn’t eating it, just scratching his teeth and pulling strips off (from his hidy house). This morning he wanted to nibble on the cat scratcher.  I have laid hay out everywhere for easy access and he nibbled a bit but he kept going to the cardboard. Is that odd?

He peed last night and this morning in his liter. He also pooped 3 times in the liter. They were small but round and the texture felt normal.

[DanaNM]

One of my buns used to really go for the cardboard when he was having a GI upset, so I think that’s not uncommon. As long as he’s not eating lots of cardboard it’s ok.

Poops are good!

It does sound like your vet was very thorough. Another thing that can masquerade as GI stasis is liver lobe torsion, but I think your vet would have been able to see that on the x-rays as well.

An Xray of teeth can show issues in the back molars (that are very hard to see with the otoscope) or issues with the tooth roots. The main issue that points to teeth would be the excessive water drinking you noticed at first, but giving him supportive nursing care as you have been will help his gut get back online. The pain meds will help him feel better as well.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Max2021]

Hello. Thank you for the reply!
The vet said upon examination she didn’t think it was necessary to take an X-ray of the teeth.

Max started peeing and pooping yesterday! Throughout the day the poop became more round. It’s still relatively small and dark but it looks so much better than the first time he pooped. He is drinking a little from a bowl and is nibbling on more hay.

Yesterday evening we syringe fed him more CC & pumpkin. He was quite difficult but I think he swallowed enough. I offered him a mixture of dill, cilantro and mixed greens. He ate a few pieces out of my hand. I left a small pile close to him over night and this morning only a few pieces were left.

For breakfast I placed a pile of the greens mentioned above and a 1/8 cup of pellets. He seemed uninterested until I offered him the pellets from my hand. He ate about 7 pellets. Since then he has eaten about half the pellets and veggies. I didn’t give him critical care this morning. ***Is that Ok or should I continue to feed him it? He is pooping a lot more than he is peeing. ***Should we syringe feed him water in place of the cc?

Max was prescribed the following which we started on Wednesday night (Dec 6).

Metoclopramide .7ml every 8 hrs for a minimum of 7 days.

Bene-bac once a day for for 10 days

Meloxidyl .55ml every 12 hrs as needed</p>

I administered Meloxidyl early this morning. I wasn’t sure if he needed it but I didn’t want to risk him being in pain. ***When should I stop giving this to him?”

Max’s personality seems to have almost completely returned. He runs away when we try to pick him up to administer the meds and flicks us when we are done. He loves head/ear rubs. The interesting thing is, it’s so much more intense. Before his teeth would simply chatter but now the chattering is very  loud, prolonged and I’ll also hear a lot of clicking. At first I thought he was grinding out of pain but I believe it’s enjoyment because he looks super relaxed.  I imagine he would run away and flick me if he didn’t like it.

Max is free roam however typically when we’re not home, we don’t allow him to go in the basement.  He loves the basement bc it has carpet and doesn’t slip. Anyways, when it’s dinner time, he used to run upstairs to the kitchen at exactly 5pm to receive his food. However, since he got sick, we’ve allowed him to stay in the basement. I worked from home so I could keep an eye on him, I am temporarily sleeping downstairs and we bring his food to him (actually, for now, we are leaving it near him to encourage him to eat). ***At what point should we try to return him to his normal routine and make him come upstairs for food? I don’t want him to think this is the new norm.

I know this was a long read… thank you so much in advance!!

[Bam]

Wonderful news!

If he is eating enough by himself you can stop the CC, but unless he hates it very much it doesnt hurt to keep him on a serving per day for a few more days just to make sure he gets all the nutrients he needs. Rabbits prefer to eat by themselves, there’s very little risk that he’ll get “spoilt” and prefer CC to normal rabbit food.

This could have been a small “hairball” that now has dislodged. Hopefully it wont happen again any time soon, if it does, it’s time to look for underlying conditions.

That he is eating and pooping and enjoying headrubs indicates that he isnt in pain. You can stop the Meloxidyl or just give it to him once per 24 hours, and if he seems to need it again, you can put him back on it. (0.55 ml of Meloxidyl 1.5 mg/ml yields 0.825 mg meloxicam, but how big that dose is depends on his weight). Rabbits generally tolerate meloxicam well and they are as a species very sensitive to GI pain, so its always good to have some leftover meloxi at home.

You can try to get him back to his normal routine, it’d be great if he starts to come running up the stairs for food again. Running in stairs is very good exercise for rabbits!

[Max2021]

@Bam @DanaNM. Thank you!  Max’s  poop has been increasing in size and is round but after administering Metoclopramide his poop comes out deformed and I find his cecotropes in his liter.  Is that normal? Should I continue to administer Metoclopramide every 8 hrs for the full seven days? We are on day three.

[DanaNM]

That’s wonderful news! Agree with Bam!

It’s ok to “spoil him” a bit still 😉 and I agree with continuing the CC until his hay habits especially are back to normal. “Extra” CC won’t hurt him and still has benefits while he continues to recover.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bam]

Metoclopramide is a gut stimulant and it helps the intestinal contents “push” through. I think it’s good that stuff comes out, if the poop is a bit misshapen it could be bc the intestinal contents have not been able to move through quite as swiftly as they should have. This includes the cecals. How do the cecals look?

After a bout of GI trouble its very common to see poop irregularities for some time. The gut needs time to restore its microbial balance, and for that to happen, the bun needs to eat hay (and drink water, hydration is very important). The probiotics may help, but they can’t replace hay.

 

[Max2021]

Thanks Bam. The cecals look normal. It’s odd bc he was eating them earlier today. I gave him plenty of greens which he did eat.  Should I limit the greens until he is eating more hay? Sorry for all the questions. This is the first time he’s been sick.

[Bam]

It’s great that you’re asking questions. Even people who have had poorly buns before need to ask questions, bc when you have a poorly bun, it’s so stressful that it’s hard to remember anything tbh. Plus its always good to discuss stuff with fellow bun people.

I think fresh leafy greens like herbs etc are good for him now, when he needs extra hydration and maybe a little help with his appetite. But definitely dont give him huge heaps, because that would interfere with his appetite for hay. The HRS recommends 1 cup fresh leafy greens (incl herbs) per 2 lb bun per day.  Maybe you could chop up some of the herbs and drizzle them over some hay?

It’s obv good that his cecos look good, and that you saw him eat some. I asked bc sometimes metoclopramide is given for “sticky poop” aka “poopy butt”, and it can really help if the bun has a slight problem with getting the cecos to come out like they should.

 

[Max2021]

Hello. I just wanted to thank all of you for responding and sharing advice/tips based on your experience!  I appreciate you all so much!! With the appropriate attention and medical care, Max has fully recovered and is back to his normal happy self! Warm regards!!

[DanaNM]

That’s wonderful! Thanks for the update!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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