How to tell if our 9-year-old needs a new friend

[Meg]

Hi all!

I’m looking for advice on how to figure out what’s best for Teddy, our 9.5-year-old neutered Lionhead boy.  As some of you know, he lost his BFF, Athena, two weeks ago.  ;(  They’d been together over 9 years (since he was 3 months old), and had had an instant bond and a surprisingly egalitarian relationship, with equal grooming in both directions (and sometimes simultaneous mutual grooming .  Athena was over 10, and passed away suddenly from undiagnosed liver and kidney failure.  I’ve been grieving hard, and feel SO bad we didn’t catch this sooner, but also grateful for the many happy years we had together.  We just took Teddy for a checkup and I just found out his bloodwork looks normal, so that is a big relief.  (Athena passed away at home so Teddy got to spend time with her and say goodbye.  He didn’t seem to want to linger though.)

Now the question is what is best for him in terms of whether and when we should get him a friend.  For context, though having Athena and Teddy has been one of the best things in my life, I adore them both, and I hope we have Teddy for as long as possible, I don’t think I have thick enough skin to be a long-term bunny owner.  I just get sooo anxious anytime they have GI issues, and anytime I travel — and I see myself traveling more in the coming years.  So our plan was not to get more bunnies after these two — but we’ll do whatever’s best for Teddy (e.g., another senior bun).  I personally don’t love the idea of getting another bunny because I’ve been soooo in love with these two for the past decade, and with Athena herself, that I have a hard time with the idea of any other bunny than my two original perfect loves.  But the top priority is what would make Teddy the happiest.

The two main issues are:

1. How can we tell if he would like a friend?  He’s a pretty independent guy.  I work mostly from home so I’m around too.
2. My boyfriend, Tushar, and I are planning to buy a house in the next couple of months (hopefully) and move in together, which means Teddy would have more company in the form of Tushar (whom he likes and trusts, as much as he likes and trusts any human), and Tushar’s gentle, timid, cuddly cat Percy (whom he hasn’t met; right now they live in a separate apartment downstairs).  Should we wait to see how he does with the move, and if he befriends Percy, before potentially getting him a bunny friend?  Or is this an ASAP situation?

Here are more details on each issue:

1. Teddy and Athena cuddled a lot, but I think that was mostly Athena’s initiation.  She was a very cuddly bunny who loved affection from anyone.  Teddy is a lot shyer and more reserved.  He lets me pet him from time to time, and even grinds his teeth sometimes, but half the time he runs away.  He never asks for pets.  For the first few days after Athena passed, he seemed more open to cuddles from me, but then he went back to his normal “I don’t need you!” self.  (;  Also, I’d sometimes see Athena grooming their stuffed animals, but never Teddy.  I tried putting a bunch of Athena’s fur on their original stunt double right when she passed (she had just been shedding so there was plenty) but he’s never showed any interest in it.  I’ve been watching for signs of depression (destruction, etc.) but he hasn’t been into that.  He has GI slowdown now from the stress of going to the vet for a checkup (I’m treating him), and so lately he’s been sitting in weird places, but that wasn’t the case for the 10 days prior to the vet.  He was eating well and hopping around about as much as usual.  Our vet says that some bunnies really need another friend while others want nothing to do with other bunnies once their lifelong partner has passed.  I can see Teddy being in the latter camp, but I’m not sure.  The counterargument would be that he’s so much less social with humans than Athena was, he might be lonelier as a result.  :/
2. So the timing question is twofold: a) if it takes, say, 2 months for us to find and move into a house, would that be an acceptable amount of time to wait to see if Teddy makes friends with Percy and isn’t lonely, or is that too long in case he does want a bunny friend? and b) if we know we’d be moving soon, is it better to try a bunny bond now or to wait?  I guess the neutral territory thing would be easier to come by in a new house.  I also don’t know how the timing of introducing him to a new bunny vs. to Percy would work.  

As for Percy, I’ve heard that it depends a lot on the individuals whether cats and bunnies get along.  We’d be very cautious, of course.  I’m hopeful they might be friends because Percy’s an indoor-only cat who’s pretty timid and gentle, yet cuddly.  He does like to wrestle with Tushar sometimes but he rarely tries it with me because he knows I don’t like it.  He does like to melt into a puddle when we’re watching TV and snuggle for like an hour straight.  : )  Other than that, both Percy and Teddy have a similar “I don’t need you but you can pet me maybe wait no you can’t” personality.  (; 

Last question: there are two senior bunnies, both male, on Petfinder in our area.  I guess we could try bunny dates to see how Teddy responds, but should I be worried about E. cuniculi or other communicable diseases?  Neither of my buns have ever shown signs of that, and I’d hate to expose Teddy now (if he doesn’t have it in his bloodstream) if it’s not necessary.  

Thank you so much!  I love Teddy SOOOOooooo much and want to take good care of him and do whatever would make him happiest and safest.  I’ve never been through this before so I’d love your help and advice on how best to do that.  

[Azerane]

I’m very sorry for your loss of Athena, such a long time to have a bonded pair. This is a really tough question and one that I feel we can’t really answer for you. You’ve pretty much covered all the bases in terms of pros and cons. It’s very difficult, and not to put a negative spin on things, but you don’t know whether Teddy has another year in him, or another four years. Planning ahead for your life and for pets in that regard is important, but I think if you were to adopt, certainly try to find a bun around Teddy’s age. Otherwise it’s easy to get constantly caught in a cycle of having a bun left over from a bonded pair who’s only 5 and needs a new companion and so forth.

If Teddy is showing signs of depression, or is getting ill as a result of no longer having his lifelong companion, then I would certainly consider adopting a new bond partner for him (of course there are no guarantees they will bond). But if he is doing ok on his own, and has plenty of company at home with you working from home, that could be ok too. He may come out of his shell more now with people since he doesn’t have Athena to cuddle up to any more. If he’s doing ok for now, I’d be inclined to wait a bit and consider adopting closer to/just after you move house. But that really is up to you. I probably wouldn’t want to introduce him to Percy, and to a new bunny at the same time, although a cat presence could potentially be a catalyst for bunnies wanting to be together (who knows, could backfire too). Like I said before, I don’t think this is something we can answer for you, you know Teddy best and whether he is happy or not. I certainly wouldn’t blame you for not getting him another companion at a senior age, but it is a tough decision. I’m sorry I can’t be more help.

[Meg]

Thank you so much, Azerane! I really appreciate your help. You’re right that having a neverending chain of bunnies is not our goal — but there’s an 8-year-old boy nearby whom we could potentially introduce to Teddy. It is tough because you don’t get any guarantees on how long either bunny is going to live (i.e., I could be putting Teddy through another bereavement). But I love Teddy so much, I would hate for him to be lonely…

I guess a main question is: how can I tell if he is lonely? What are the signs of depression/loneliness? So far I’ve heard:
– More destructiveness than usual
– Hiding more than usual
– Illness and/or less appetite

Are there others?

Thank you so much!! : )

[jerseygirl]

Do you live near a rescue that has fosters or sanctuary/special-needs rabbits? I was thinking this could be a way to gauge how Teddy would do with another rabbit around the place. without you having to make the commitment to adopt. Even if it’s giving another foster carer some respite and taking on one of their rabbits for a month or 2. Or there is pet rabbit sitting..
Even having another rabbit nearby might show you whether he is really looking for company or not. Keeping in mind though, that they can show interest when there is a barrier between, and be less friendly when it’s not there!

I guess a main question is: how can I tell if he is lonely? What are the signs of depression/loneliness? So far I’ve heard:
– More destructiveness than usual
– Hiding more than usual
– Illness and/or less appetite

Are there others?

I haven’t found anything very specific. Other then mention of increased drinking in a HRS article. It’s what the author noticed with their bereaved rabbit. Whether this was through boredom or perhaps a self-soothing behaviour, I couldn’t say!
Aggression may be another sign – especially if they are feeling insecure without their bond mate around.
There was an article “When the senior rabbit loses a companion” that no longer seems to exits.

[Meg]

Thank you so much, Kate!! This is really helpful, and I so appreciate it.

Fostering is a brilliant idea. I’m realizing that my current apartment is so small, there’s nowhere I could put a separate bunny pen (and I doubt a shelter would approve me to try). We could make do for a few weeks while bonding, but probably not beyond that. But it’s a great idea for when we’re in a house.

I want to see how Teddy does this week, now that he seems to be over his GI slowdown, thankfully. He does seem to be exploring and adventuring more, and I don’t know which way to interpret that. I feel like he and I are both trying to figure out what life looks like now.

Thank you so much again!

[DanaNM]

So sorry for your loss, I’ve had to answer this question multiple times with my girl Bertha, as she’s been widowed twice now.

I think the idea to foster is a great one. You could also take him on some dates and see how he does. Often rabbits that are widowed will bond right away with a new mate.

I also think the fact that he isn’t that social towards people actually means he would be happier with another bunny friend. My girl Bertha is very friendly towards people and will come to us for comfort, but I still saw signs of depression in her after a few weeks of being alone. With her she was much more destructive than normal (obsessively trying to chew the carpet mostly). Her appetite was good, but she would eat more slowly. I wasn’t sure if this was out of sadness, or because her mate wasn’t trying to eat all the food anymore…

If it doesn’t work out to adopt or foster a new bun, you might consider getting him a stuffy to snuggle with, as long as he doesn’t chew it. I got Bertha one before we adopted Bun Jovi, and if I made it snuggle and “groom” her, she would groom it back and snuggle up to it. I only gave it to her while she was supervised as she’s a chewer, but I think it gave her some comfort.

Even having another bunny as a neighbor can be a comfort to a grieving rabbit, even if you never bond them. If you plan to just foster, this would probably be the best plan.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Cheeko&Abby]

I’m so sorry for the loss of Athena It sounds like we are in a very similar position since my bunnies are 10.5 and 9.5 and the older one has kidney failure. Once my Cheeko passes (which seems to possibly be in the coming months), Abby will be almost 10 yrs old and alone. When we first got her, we wanted to bond her with our current pair, but the other female (who passed away 7 years ago) wasn’t having any of it, so Abby lived in a pen next to the other two. After Eliza passed, Abby and Cheeko were able to bond and have been inseparable ever since. Abby has a stuffed animal from when she lived alone (Sheepy), which she used to groom and snuggle with before she was bonded with Cheeko. We have kept it in their pen, but Sheepy hasn’t been snuggled with in years.

My husband is allergic to the rabbits (pretty sure it’s the hay and not the rabbits) and since I had the rabbits prior to meeting him, I said I wouldn’t get any more bunnies after these 2 pass, so Abby will live out the rest of her life with us and Sheepy. Luckily she is very sweet and cuddly so I hope she will be ok with the extra attention from me, if it seems that she is taking the loss badly I will also have to look into fostering options to give her companionship.

If you can’t foster until you move anyway, maybe Percy could be a good solution. I would be interested to know how the introduction goes! We have 2 small dogs and initially the bunnies would thump just from smelling the dogs on us. They quickly got used to the sounds and smells of the dogs, but I have never been able to properly introduce them because the dogs are too rowdy for the bunnies and they play too hard. My goal was to have everyone living together in harmony, but the dogs are very prey driven so even though they are only a tiny bit bigger than the buns, I haven’t wanted to risk it.

[Meg]

Thank you so much! I hope that Abby and Cheeko have as long as possible together still. ((((healthy vibes to Cheeko))))

I agree, hopefully Abby will be OK with attention from you. It’s tricky with Teddy since he only likes attention like 1/3 of the time, haha. But he does seem a lot sprightlier and more normal now than in the past few weeks. I’m waiting to see how the rest of this week goes for him.

I’d love to be able to introduce Teddy and Percy soon! The tricky thing is that Percy also is a very timid kitty, almost as much so as bunnies are, and he hasn’t left his current apartment in the 6 years that he and Tushar have been living there. Apparently whenever they have moved in the past, he’s hidden under the bed literally all day for the first several weeks. So if we brought him up to Teddy’s and my apartment, he’d probably just freak out. Also, both of us currently have studio apartments so we don’t have any doors that can close (except the bathroom?), so I can’t picture how we’d keep Percy away from Teddy if he got aggressive.

[Cheeko&Abby]

Thank you for the healthy vibes Very much appreciated.

What about bringing Teddy down to Tushar’s apartment? If you have an x pen you could give him safety while letting Percy check him out in an environment he’s used to? That way Teddy is safe and Percy is comfortable, win win! (That’s if Teddy is comfortable in new places). My buns have always loved exploring new smells and places.

[Meg]

Hi everyone! I thought I’d just check in. We moved to our new house in early November and Teddy is thriving! He’s binkying more than ever (almost every day now, whereas I’d only seen it a couple of times in his life before we moved), and he does these cute little hops in place when Tushar brings him his food in the morning. (Unlike me, Tushar gets up early, at at the same time every morning, for work, and Teddy is really enjoying that!) I never expected him to be this happy and I am sooooo grateful.

We haven’t tried introducing him and Percy in earnest, but I’ve brought Percy in in my arms (never putting him down) a few times. Once Teddy stomped, but the few times since then he didn’t seem concerned. Neither seemed very interested in each other though. Once we trim Percy’s nails we can try to allow some contact and see how that goes.

But I’m still pondering getting Teddy a bunny friend mostly so he’d have someone to hang out with when we’re not there — because with Percy, we’d never allow them to be together unsupervised. Teddy lives in one bedroom with the door always closed, so I worry it’d be a boring life for him when we’re not in there playing with him. (We don’t have any carpet on his floor, and he’s scared of hardwood, so there’s no more territory he could hop to.

I’m not sure if this is the right call — he’s so happy and expressive now, could it be that he’s enjoying his bachelor pad? But I guess it probably couldn’t hurt to bring another (senior) bunny over for a date to see how he responds? I don’t know whether it’s having his own territory that makes him so happy, or just being in a house where it’s quieter and more peaceful than our apartments. I just want him to be as happy as possible, and would hate to keep anything from him that could make him even happier. What do you think?

[jerseygirl]

I read this recently and it took me a while to find the thread again!  Im just so pleased to read how Teddy is doing. Seeing binkies everyday is a treat!

 im when we’re not in there playing with him. (We don’t have any carpet on his floor, and he’s scared of hardwood, so there’s no more territory he could hop to.

I know my own rabbits spend the bulk of the day, tucked away sleeping. Even when I am there. Even when I just had 2 free roamers, they still chose to stay under a cardboard box for most of the day.

I suspect Teddy mostly sleeps in your absence, so the time likely passes quickly for him. 

He honestly can be a happy, content rabbit, living the way things are now. Yes, he could also be happy with a companion, but it’s hard to say if he’d be happier..

Some rabbits really need another rabbit around, but he seems well attached to people (albeit, in less obvious way then it was with Athena) so perhaps doesn’t need a rabbit companion to thrive.

You likely need to ask the question based on what you want at the end of the day. While a rabbit could provide him company, it does mean you taking on another for it’s lifetime, which will likely extend past Teddy’s. And will you want to be getting that rabbit a companion after Teddy passes in the future? So it kind of comes down to a question of whether you want to continue having rabbits in your life. It’s totally okay to want a break from that (the stress of finding suitable vets, pet sitters, etc) and it is also totally understandable to want to always have a rabbit or two! Maybe you yourself are more open to that now that some time has passed since saying goodbye to Athena?

I suppose Im asking, is your personal position on having rabbits changed from your original post? I think that would help you make a decision. As for Teddy, he honestly sounds happy. Maybe beyond your expectations of how you thought he’d go.

[DanaNM]

Glad to hear Teddy is doing so well.

Jersey brings up great points!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[jerseygirl]

Reiterating some points already made previously.
I hadn’t read thread again thoroughly before my last reply.

[Meg]

Thank you so much, JerseyGirl!! I am so so grateful for your advice on this.

I’m glad to hear you say that it sounds like Teddy is pretty well bonded to us even if not in the obvious ways Athena was. He does seem to enjoy our company even if not always petting — he eats more and hops around more when we come in the room. So I can keep doing more of that. I am so, so grateful that he seems as happy as he does. Tushar says why introduce a new variable, then, and I guess that makes sense.

To answer your question, I don’t think my mind has changed at this point about the long-term outlook for me. I totally adore Teddy and enjoy him every day and hope we get a nice looooong time with him yet. <3 I will always love love love bunnies, and might foster in the future, but I don't think I have thick enough skin to have more bunnies of my own. I worry SOOO much when they get stasis and/or when I go on longer trips… my heart can't quite take it. Plus these two have been perfect!! <3

There’s an 8-year-old boy on Petfinder that I’ve been thinking about if Teddy needs someone, but he seems so happy in his new domain, I’m not totally sure he would be happier with a new companion. I’m relieved that he is likely not suffering as things are. So we will stick with the current situation for now, watching for if he starts to tell us differently.

Thank you sooo much for your advice, everyone!

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