hope for the new?

[chinphat]

I’ve had Bunny who is a beautiful neutred female mini lop for about 8 months. We got her from a pet store when I knew NOTHING about rabbits and we got INCREDIBLY LUCKY with her. She was caged w another rabbit and they got along and cuddled and was litter box trained. Shes been an only rabbit since then though, and I’ve wanted to get her a buddy. So we went to the same pet store because rabbit vendors are hard to come by and i hoped to get lucky again. We got a lil male dwarf lop, we put them in a neutral room and everything and she outright attacked him, she would corner him and just bite. We had to take him back.

Saturday we drove an hour to get a bunny from a vendor. Noob is a black not neautred female mini lop approximately 7 months old (according to the vendor). Noob is horribly afraid of us, we can’t really handle her or even pet her but if she might possibly bond with Bunny we would be very pleased.

We got a 2nd cage and put it next to Bunnys this time to start them off, they started sparring through the bars. We moved both downstairs after the night into the neutral room and Bunny will sometimes hop up to Noob and give her 1 or 2 licks on the head. Other times she will hop up and just nip or will just start to chase Noob. She never just attacks as viciously as she did with the dwarf. I was wondering if this could mean anything? Will they bond or at least be able to be left alone together? Will Noob ever be unafraid of us petting her and even bond with us?

 

i will attach phots later when i pull them off my camera and resize

[BinkyBunny]

Welcome chinphat!! Sounds like you have been learning quite a bit since you got her!  Congrats!

It is normal for bunnies to hate one bunny and be more open to another. I was going to suggest you bring her to have bunny dates at the location you went to, but then read on to find out you brought another home.  (keeping fingers crossed)  The fact that she is not going straight after Noob is a good sign. 

Good idea to move them both down to a neutral territory.  Sounds like your bunny has some definite territory issues – so  it was a smart move on your part!  There is no way to know for sure if they will get along, but so far at least it’s not straight out aggression in the new area. That is an improvement. Only time will tell.

IF this doesn’t end up working out, do you have a rabbit rescue near you?  I know that many of them offering assistance in bonding, and you can go through bunny dating. I know my first rabbit found love with the SIXTH rabbit date (speed dating at the rescue – took a couple of hours to find his right match)

If it does end up working out between the two of them, then in time and with patience, Noob should come around.  Do you know why Noob is this way?  Fear based, neglect, abuse or just not socialized?  There are different ways to handle her depending on why she is the way she is.   Does she bite? How does she show her fear?

[chinphat]

First off…thanks a lot for the quick response, I really appreciate it.

Yes, the North Texas Rabbit Sanctuary…. who are literally only 7 miles from us. This was going to be
our next move if Noob doesn’t work out. Have you ever heard of a sanctuary that is willing to trade
rabbits? So that we COULD speed date Bunny and KNOW if it’s going to work out, I’m not going to

be
able to give another rabbit up again, we do not take adopting pets lightly.

We are unsure as to why Noob behaves the way she does. We are certain that there is some
neglect involved in her behavior. There was certainly a certain degree of socializing involved with
Noob as she was caged with her unaltered male mate. The vendor we bought her from breeds
show rabbits and doesn’t often handle them. They had plenty of rabbits around and not all of them
seemed to be in the greatest of conditions. Our basis for neglect is, Noob had a large clump of hair
and miscellaneous matter clumped in and around her tail and entire bottom side. We decided it was
best to remove it since it may cause health problems. The clump would not come off until it was
soaked in the tub for a few hours while working and pulling it all out. At some points where the
clump/knotting was too great, we opted to use scissors to remove the fur.

She shows fear by her eyes getting really big, freezes up for LONG periods of time, the classic bunny

thump and run, and she loses poo when picked up. She has never bitten or shown any aggressive
behavior.

After our first post, we attempted the bonding procedure shown in the FAQs that involve two
bunnies in a travel carrier that are placed in a neutral territory. The neutral territory that we had
decided on was the front yard (which Bunny never gets to go). Things seemed pretty smooth, they
spent twenty minutes together in the box with no fighting. Bunny seemed very attentive and curious to

her surroundings and to us. She was constantly peering at us as we walked around the travel carrier
and seemed she would be happier outside the carrier. Noob, on the other hand, just hunkered down
in the rear of the cage and tried to stay out of Bunny’s way despite the latter showing no aggressive
behavior.

All in all I think good progress was made today as Noob seems more relaxed than when we initially
got her, but she seems to have a ways to go before (if ever) she becomes comfortable with us and
will allow petting without reacting in a terrified manner. Bunny seems to be a little more relaxed and
accepting of Noob’s presence currently as long as she stays on her half of the room.

Do you think that because the vendor was a rabbitry, that it played a significant role in the upbringing
and care of Noob versus a single litter vendor? Can you provide any information on the differences of
a rabbitry versus other breeding styles?

[Sarita]

You posted that Bunny is altered and Noob is not altered? Is that correct? You need to get Noob altered too before you start trying to bond.

It is doubtful that a rescue will trade your rabbit though for another of theirs if it doesn’t work out with these two.

[MooBunnay]

Hello!

I have had MANY MANY shy skittish bunnies before, almost every single one of my 7 bunnies was afraid of me when I first got them because they were shelter bunnies that did not have much attention from humans and were afraid of me, and now every single one will climb their front feet up the side of the cage just to get head pets from me

I would recommend you split all of the things you are trying to get done at once into small sections. First, if you want to go about bonding the easiest way possible, I would recommend as Sarita said to make sure both bunnies are fixed because that makes it the easiest to bond the two, also, the bonding may be undone when you take one bunny to the vet to get fixed and then you’d have to rebond all over again! Then I would work on the bonding process, taking them to neutral territory in the carrier is something you can repeat daily, as well as sitting with them daily in a neutral area (such as the bathroom or another area your bunny hasn’t been in).

Third, after spending all this time with Noob she will start to warm up, to aid the process, hand feed her treats from time to time, and also, spend time sitting on the floor with her and letting her hop on and around you, and IGNORE her – this is very important because she will understand by you ignoring her that you do not pose a threat to her. This is also how bunnies communicate to other bunnies that they do not want to harm them, by ignoring them. This will allow her to get used to you without being frightened.

While I would recommend contacting a rabbit rescue for advice if you need it, they are often completely overwhelmed with rabbits, and I also can’t imagine that poor Noob can handle yet another home change. I think it would be best for you and your buns if you take things slowly, don’t try to force bonding right away, and work slowly on Noob getting used to you. Rushing everything at once will just stress everyone out so just take it one step at a time. Often the shiest, most scared bunnies end up being the most fantastic pets!

[BinkyBunny]

It sounds like things are going well so far, and patience is the key. I ditto MooBunnay’s comments!

As far as if Noob would have been different if she hadn’t come from a rabbitry – I am not a "breeder expert,, so I can’t give you a real educated answer about different breeding styles.  PLUS, , that discussion is not allowed in this forum – "The subject of intentional breeding is prohibited" – because… we don’t have enough experience to really guide you with that and discussion of breeding styles can actually start to bring up a debate due to the fact that there are so many members who have dedicated their lives to rescue work.   And with that said, I also don’t wan’t to demonize all breeders,  So all I can say is from my own experience – I have met breeders/rabbitry who make sure their bunnies are touched, loved and properly cared for every single day, while others are more concerned with looks only.   Like with anything – there are good ones and there are bad ones. 

Keep us updated with Noobs progress!   OHHH, and I also ditto Sarita’s suggestion.  It will be easier to bond them if Noob is spayed. 

Oh, and I didn’t mean to imply that you could just give up Noob to a rabbit rescue, but if they ended up fighting visciously right off the bat like she did with the male, and you had to take her back like the first one, then my next step would be to try a rabbit rescue to speed dating for any future pairings. 

[chinphat]

alrighty, will do with the updates.

I decided to take Noob to get spayed this morning. We will try bonding sessions in a two weeks or so when she is healed.

[BinkyBunny]

WOW! Good for you! You’re right on it! I am sending happy healing vibes Noobs way! I know with females it can be a bit rougher. Let us know if you need any guidance with post op information.

[chinphat]

We got Noob back today, and Joel didn’t think to ask a few questions when he
was at the vets office (he is on call for work).  He asked if there was anything in particular we
needed to know and they just told him that she had 90 day dissolvable
stitches and that if she keeps gnawing on things to give them a call.

We put the normal mix of food and water down in her cage….parsley, timothy
hay, and dried pellets which she has not touched at all!! We have only seen her drink only a tiny amount. Do they normally not have appetites post op? I know that
after about 24hrs w no food or water it’s probably a serious problem. I am
also slightly concerned that the pet store that I got Bunny from might’ve
not had their facts totally straight so how do you tell for sure -with out
having to pay a vet- that a female rabbit is spayed?

On the bonding front, we did get overly excited about it and kind of rush it
we know  but we put Noobs cage within arms reach of Joel’s side of the
bed (because Noob is "his rabbit&quot so that she will get that whole ignoring
safety sense from us, it worked so well Bunny (who is my bunny). Were doing
the whole stuffed animal switch on them to get them used to each others
scent, but I’m not sure if we should continue to switch their cages and/or
litter boxes. We did the cage switch last night and Noob was pretty much
fine with it but Bunny….. Well, Bunny is ALWAYS grabbing on the bars of
her cage and shaking (she’s trying to pry the doors open and if there not
totally latched she will manage to open them) but she did it so violently
last night, and throughout the night. Will that really hurt her teeth in the
long run?

We have also yet to find a treat that Noob will show interest in. Bunny goes
absolutely FRANTIC for berry flavored yogurt drops. She especially LOVES banana,
strawberries, and apples! Noob won’t really touch them which makes it really
hard to do positive reinforcement for litter training etc.

[MsBinky]

Spays are pretty rough on the system and the anesthesia on top of it makes it that the does are more out of it for longer periods of time. The first day or two are particularly rough. Eating pellets isn’t important but hydration and hay are really good. I like to give pedialyte after such surgeries. My vet also thought it was a great idea and gave me an envelope of Electramine.

Personally, I would move Noob away from Bunny as this may just stress her more. I would give her at least a week before introducing new scents and all to her as right now we don`t want to add more stress.

Also, I would avoid offering any treats for the first few days while her system recovers. The last thing you want is to cause a stomach upset on top of everything else

Ps: If she tried to bite at her stitches, you can make her wear a sweater. I got mine in the newborn section. One has bunnies, and the other says "Me Spoiled? Not at all. Just ask my staff." LOL.

[Gravehearted]

you can’t tell if a rabbit is spayed without a vet, unfortunately. but her behavior sounds like post spay – she likely is out of it from the anesthesia. most bunnies feel pretty out of it after being spayed and it’s pretty common for bunnies to not be very hungry the first day. bunnies don’t eat when they’re in pain 🙁

try offering her fresh veggies – kale and sniffy herbs can be enough to entice a bunny into eating. fresh water is important too.

you’ll want to have her take it easy and limit her activity for a few days. adding something very soft to lay on in her house is a good idea too, so she has somewhere to way.

if she’s not eating within 24 hours of the surgery, call the vet or if you see signs that she’s pulling her stitches.

I’d agree with MsBinky – that it’s best to reduce her stress while she is recovery and not work on the bonding.   Also, once she’s better and able to handle treats, the dried fruits are a much healthier option than the yogurt chips, since they’re really loaded with sugar.

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