Helping bun out of her comfort zone to flop more? Forceful or supportive?

[ClaraLaLop]

Hello everyone 

Sorry… this will be a long rambling one…

Grap a coffee, snack and or tea… 😉

I could be considered a first-time bunny own cause I had my lop as a child… those times have clearly passed 😂

We got out bunny baby three weeks ago and she is doing really well…. she began coming when calling her nearly right away. Was brave to explore us wholeheartedly fairly quickly. She would climb readily on our backs when lying with her etc…. is curious and healthy as far as I can see… 

She began “oinking” when running towards me when in the hopes of food. Will do the bunny purring often. Will sit nearby and sleep with her exes closed wherever she stands. More and more lays down and stretches her back legs out even and recently began flopping sometimes…. 

She has had shown us some

Happy binkies often… she feels safe, secure and content …. 

if I need to get her down from the sofa or bed she’ll even oftentimes let me pick her up in a special way and stays calm… 

So… I do see her so confident and happy and trusting already…. I’m

Beyond glad about that so please don’t get me wrong …. We also already were lucky enough to receive some Bunny Kisses!

——

At the same time, I do wonder… if I should be firmer when it comes to getting to used her to grooming… or even petting…

She won’t stay for head strokes, well actually sometimes I can get one or the head pats in there 😀 haha… last night I was awake really late and she even really lowered her head and let me stroke her for the first time… Yaiiii I was in heaven!

I had to pick her up 2-3 times during these weeks and had to handle her. Her glands were so messy, I was happy that I did take a look…. and doing a bunny burrito she stayed calm after the initial „fight and flight“ light version…. 

I then noticed some hairs already forming a mat and knew I have to begin to groom her a bit, although I thought about just letting pass by more time etc…. (She isn’t long-haired, is quietly beginning to shed her baby fur, a mini lop doe)

She showed somehow more dominant than submissive personality over the first two weeks. Yeah such an early phase I know… But after questioning it I had to admit, yeah: she has a strong, brave character. After the initial: I need to mark everything (and it was clearly more marking than just baby accidents and short attention span)…. Besides marking those soft surfaces droppings have decreased and after some trial and error and just a bit of time and patience, at least I could prevent her from peeing on the couch yesterday… Yai….

So she chins everything. I am totally fine with that! Yesterday she tried circling me…. She won’t let me put her head down normally but will pull back after just a millisecond. Just to give you a taste of probably some baby tendencies here or personality traits… I am a bit afraid of her entering actual puberty though Hahaha…..

These last days as mentioned I had to handle her to get out the knot turning into a mat…. So as mentioned, after the initial disagreement, she tolerated it… Afterwards, I gently led her hop off my lap after setting her down and she didn’t hop away in panic, although of course hopped a bit but then flopped a second or too, got up into half loaf and slept… purring… 

When I took her home she stayed in her little carrier bag and wouldn’t jump out. The next day I had to change it and the hay and such so I had to get her out. Since that she welcomed the bigger cat litter box space and hadn’t looked back. I am trying to explain that there were some scenarios where I do strongly feel, I had to show her: Hey, this is safe space, try it out! and then she was happy! 

Like: Pushing her out of her comfort zone and then she realized how good everything was and wouldn’t look back… 

This happened several times, although different situations…

One day when I was brave and after having to pick her up to get her from the bed, I just kept holding her firmly and sat down on the couch and gave her a cuddly session without asking for permission. It must have been really good timing, cause after the initial nahhhhhh she melted, poured and almost fell asleep in my arms…. 

When she got back down, I think she shortly or directly afterwards flopped again…. 

I have had the impression as if I almost had to „force“ or push her a bit to these grooming and petting sessions… She would have never approached me directly for cuddles. She will readily come to me but hop away as fast the second I try to pet her….. I mean, she is a distractible and curious baby bun 😀 

I am a really cautious person and I don’t want to scare her or break the trust I have earned so far… 

On the other hand, I am a bit puzzled by her behaviour…. Once I get her to be petted, she so greatly enjoys it… also the grooming thing somehow. I was so worried, but I felt as if she accepted me better and wasn’t so much fighting to be „top bun“ afterwards… As if she could trust me to be the one in charge and take care cause I showed some clear firmness there? 

I am a really cautious person and highly value a respectful treat. So this is a bit confusing to see. How happy she is after I“ force her to her luck“…

———

Another thing is. I always saw her,  giving me the bunny but right from the beginning. Like nonstop. All the while showing how comfortable she is in general and trusting us in general….  she was doing it all the time, despite acting so happy, comfortable and relaxed … so I apologized for a ton in the beginning, cause I felt bad a lot due to that…. I always at least try to communicate in a form she probably will understand and am into bunny language more and more… 

One day I noticed, that she oftentimes will sit behind me, that way I show her my butt unintentionally 😉

Is there a someone who’s rabbit won’t do the butt thing out of disagreement, wanting to have space etc but out of „a relaxed state“ too sometimes? Like: I trust you enough to not having to face you or something like that…???

Hopefully, we will get clearer on that soon 🙂 I don’t want to stress her out in any way… 

——

So… she won’t approach me and/or stay for strokes. But when I do have to hold her and did catch on that situation and pet her, she would melt away for quite some time and afterwards flop happily when down… 

I am planning on waiting until she makes up her mind and comes up by herself hopefully… But I am a bit sad about all the possibly missed moments of bonding… She needs warmth and grooming interactions and I do want to wait some months until we hopefully get a second bun and introduce it slowly…So there lies a time before us where she will be the only bun and I would love to make her as comfortable as possible… 

I don’t want to push her or force her… but am puzzled about her reaction when I did and how much she got out of it afterwards…. It is a slight feeling as if she respected me a bit more… 

As a hyper gently, don’t wanna force nobody balboa person, I question if I might be asked to step up a bit here…. 

——

So thanks for reading through this!!!! And if anyone has had similar experiences I would love to hear from yours or how you progressed ….

I know it is so new and oh so fresh and she is oh such a baby still…. but yeah, I do think I can sense a pattern here yet…

Any thoughts are welcome and are left assured, I know about the freshness of the situation, that it takes time and wayyyy more time… and am patient… Just don’t want her to “miss out” too much…

[Bam]

Hi and welcome and congrats on your baby bun! She sounds adorable 🥰

I think you are doing very well so far. You seem to have good observing skills and good intuition, which is key.

It is good to handle buns while they are young, but it should be done with moderation, or it could be a stressor for the bun. By that I mean, don’t pick her up every time you go near her or even nearly every time. (You want to avoid flooding, also known as flooding therapy, which was popular in dog training in the olden days. It is not a method that I would recommend because it could do more harm than good). Use your judgement. Everybunny has a unique personality, and you will get to know hers.

It is very good to get her used to being brushed, and you should brush her since she is molting. If she dislikes it heartily, you dont have to brush through the whole fur in one sitting. You can also save a bit of her daily pellets and use as treats during and after brushing. Rabbits are highly food oriented! It is also good to introduce the nail clipper early on. The first times you dont have to clip the nails, just let her get used to the presence of the clipper.

Buns are, as you know flight animals, and they have a very wide visual field. Their eyes are placed on either side of the head, which means they see very very well to the sides, almost all the way around their head 😃 and they have a blind spot right in front of their nose. This can be useful to keep in mind when you approach your rabbit.

The bunny butt doesn’t necessarily mean she’s disapproving of you. The disapproving bunny butt is as a rule accompanied by a foot flick, which is pretty hard to misinterpret. Its the bunny equivalent of flipping you the bird 😄 A rabbit can very well lounge with its butt towards you without being miffed in any way. My bun does that when we watch TV together. When a bun lounges within a few yards from you and in plain view, the bun is hanging out with you.

It is lovely that she put her chin down and let you pet her head. I think she will do that more and more. It is a request to be groomed, but it is not a sign of submission. It is often the the top bunny that demands pets and gets them!

Once she hits puberty, her behavior towards you is likely to change. As I’m sure you know, this is about hormones and growing up, and becoming “independent” (as opposed to being a baby). A lot of that will go away after spaying.

I have not addressed all your questions in this post, but I hope and think that many others here will see this thread and offer their views, tips and advice.

 

[ClaraLaLop]

Thank you sooooo much! Also for reading through all of this haha…..

 

Yeah, it may have sound as if I was picking her up all the time. But I really do avoid it as much as I can. I only once could have considered being chasing her to get her down the couch and she happily showed me her dissatisfaction with an “angry-pee” lake 🙂 She was so right about that one!

So normally I want to help her and let her choose if she want’t to come. And it was only though these situations where she climbed up everywhere, no matter how high, that I slowly approached her and saw that when picking her up a certain way, she would hold still and stay totally calm. So whenever she is on the sofa where or bed, I would try and see if she will let me pick her up. At the same time she can hop away….

So I had to pick her up 2-3 times with her struggling…. And ended up cleaning her glands and grooming her…. and thank goodness afterwards she was totally fine. Happily, I didn’t mess this up too often…. puh

And we are getting better with the couch, as she does have now her space on the sides and enjoys sleeping there. It is here space now and we are getting better and better on that communication too 😉

So I am more concerned of the grooming situation for sure. Getting used her to being brush…. yes. I began brushing her while giving her her pellets. So everything on top goes pretty well… It is only when I coincidently say the messy spot beside her glands, that I thought about uhhhh okay. Tummy needs to be brushed to now and then… and she won’t tolerate me lifting her front paws gently to reach there…. So I had to really pick her up and doing some sort of bunny burrito to entangle it a bit. Haven’t finished yet in one session 🙁

Poor girl for sure, cause I too need to get used to handling such a little ball of fur…

…..

Thank you for your thoughts on the bunny but 🙂 I was already assuming that sometimes it is just her way of hanging out with us… and I think that 2-3 times it was an actual bunny but probably… at least one time she flicked and it was also her way of getting into posture, making sure I do see her! This look on the shoulder and then turning away completely… Ohhhh I had to apologize hard!

So thanks for giving me some reassurance here. It isnt always the bun but 😀 And I always do have in mind her blind spots yes. Thank you!

…..

And showing dominance, I was referring to the chinning, marking with urine, droppings, circling, not lowering her head if I tried to gently keep it down etc,… And I know that I am the submissive here haha 😀 (Just a bit scary how this will turn out in puberty 😉 )

And when she was demanding for pets when lowering her head… I was in heaven that night for sure! 🙂

……

 

You for sure addressed everything perfectly! I just wrote a whole book on that 🙂
Thanks for taking your time!

[LBJ10]

She sounds like a normal baby bunny to me. These “mixed signals” may not actually be mixed signals. It may simply be a cause of misunderstanding or being taken out of context.

There is one very important lesson missing here though. Bunny will *always* be the dominant one in the relationship. We do not call ourselves bunny slaves for no reason.  😉  If she asks for pets, that is a good sign. It means she will allow you to pet her. One thing you could try is placing your hand on the floor in a relaxed fist. It may signal to her that it is OK to approach. Don’t reach for her though. Let her ask for pets first.

I agree with Bam about the “bunny butt”. Just because their back is to you does not mean they are giving you the butt. You have to look at the context of the situation and whether or not there are other signs that they are displeased with one. As Bam mentioned, bunnies will often flick their feet at you before giving you the butt.

Sometimes bunnies don’t always know what it good until they try it and it can take several attempts before they actually try it. I wouldn’t necessarily force her to do anything, but you can certainly do some gentle coaxing. If it takes a few tries then so be it. At least that way she will think it was all her idea.

[ClaraLaLop]

Thank you!!! Really appreciate your input!
I so loved the idea about her in the end thinking it was her idea! YEAH 🙂

In the beginning, I laid my hand on the floor to see how she would react from a distance and she always came to sniff and explore. I know that some buns get offended and some take it as an invitation. (At least what I saw repeatedly in my research)… So I for sure try a relaxed fist instead! I love getting into bunny language!!!

And I’ll just keep on waiting patiently… Sometimes I can’t hold on to me and I will give her a little pat on the head when she comes running oinking happily waiting for food 😀 … she is adorable… But I try to control myself 🙂

In general, she will always approach us with curiosity! Just won’t stay of course, haha these attention spans and those annoying humans 😉

I’ll just keep doing what I do in general and from time to time I will have to make her a bit uncomfortable when cleaning, grooming, trimming etc … And whenever I notice that she will readily stay calm if I have to lower here somewhere, then I will try to get a little cuddle session in there as long as she likes… and probably someday she will ask for it…

Thanks a lot! What a great space…

Oh and today she’ll have her first vet appointment… ughhh….. let’s see how that goes … I am well prepared hopefully to make it as smooth as possible…

[Hazel]

You said you were pushing her head down, why is that?

Also, I would advise you to not keep petting her until she runs off, this will cause her to associate pets with running from you. Pet her once or twice, then stop. If she runs away, do it less next time. Over time you can slowly increase the petting time as she grows more tolerant of it.

[ClaraLaLop]

Thanks a lot for your thoughts! It has taken me forever to find the time to write…

Regarding the head down for some seconds, I followed some advice given when the territorial behaviour flips out… And it probably wasn’t the best advice.. So, unfortunately, I tried it slightly and by no means forcefully, but I didn’t follow through on that and just went with: the bun is the boss here 🙂 And we will get along with time…. 🙂

 

I always have a look to not pet her until she is really uncomfortable yeah. So that this association won’t establish hopefully…

I just got to know, that she is over 3 weeks older than estimated… So that explains to me why there is already this territorial behaviour in play…. and I can explain it better and also handle it better. It matches my intuition, so it makes sense….

 

She just gets a bit sassier after not even fully getting “close” 🙂 I am smelling those puberty hormones kicking in more and more haha here we go…. But she is comfortable around us, happy and healthy… We are on a good way…

 

In some weeks we probably can adopt an adult rabbit from the shelter. Calm, fixed and social… I will give them plenty of time to slowly adapt and am already planning a lot around that. So hopefully in some weeks, we will have two happily bonded rabbits… And in approx three months we can get her neutered and all those pieces hopefully fall calmer into place then haha….

[Hazel]

Yeah, the “push their head down to establish dominance” is still pretty widespread advice unfortunately. It makes no sense for several reasons. Rabbits don’t consider us part of their pecking order, so trying to be “top bun” is pointless from the get go. Aside from that, it is the dominant rabbit that puts its head down to demand grooming from lower ranking ones, so by pushing their head down you’re actually putting them in a dominant position, probably making them think you’re just bad at giving nose rubs. 😆

[DanaNM]

I love the relaxed fist technique (so it mimics a little bunny head) with my bunnies, esp the more shy ones. If they don’t put their head down, I don’t pet. And if they flinch at all when I go to pet, I also don’t pet.

Little nose rubs leading with the back of the hand are usually the least scary for the bun, as it doesn’t look like they are going to be grabbed, and that’s where they would start to groom each other. Then I usually progress to the ears. Once they are really into it I do cheek rubs. 🙂

It also sounds like she is starting to hit puberty a bit with the circling and chinning, so get ready for her to get sassy.

I might have missed a question, but my main advice is to play “hard to get”. It works wonders. 😉

It is good to get bunnies used to being groomed as well, but I’ve found that usually follows them allowing you to pet them, and experimenting with what brush or comb they don’t mind. During heavy molting or times when they need a deep grooming, I will also just pick them up and pop them on a table. They seem less bothered than if I am constantly pestering them with the comb.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[ClaraLaLop]

Thank you so much for your thoughts! I finally do find some time to get back to this forum…

As mentioned above, she is older than estimated so yeah, I can see those hormones coming in like a tornado. from the distance 😀 She circles more and more and those droppings increase and yeah, sassy! 🙂 haha…. We will roll with it!

I loved your advice on playing “hard to get”! I’ll try that for sure 🙂

I also have had the sensation that it might be less stressful to her if I just get clear on: Okay girl, we do have a date now. It is grooming time on the table… instead of coming up with it again and again and again in those tiny bits…. But I also have to say that I do struggle to find a comb or brush that really works for us… It all seems too big, too stiff, too…. but we already do have those hairs flying… I also groom by hand when feeding.. But grooming is still a process here… Thanks for your thoughts!!!

[DanaNM]

My two favorite grooming tools are the hair buster comb and a lint roller (the kind with peel off sticky sheets). One or the other works better on each of my bunnies. The kong “groom zoom” is also pretty good, but the fur flies all over the place so it’s kind of annoying to use.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[ClaraLaLop]

Thanks so much! I literally thought about the roller that day and we used it yesterday and she was okay with it. I mean, she was eating meanwhile 😀 …. I will have a look to get the hair buster! I have had the furminator for rabbits but it is to harsh on her skin and it might scratch… Probably I can use it when she is older, we will see…. Again, thanks a lot!

[Author]

Messages