HELP – Territorial peeing evrywhere in hutch

[Mr Rabbit & Mini]

Hi, I’m in despserate need of some help and advice. I’ve got 2 rabbits, Mr Rabbit (neutered) who I’ve had for nearly 3 years now and Mini who is a 12 weeks old female. She been with us for a month now. They both get on really well, Mr Rabbit is really protective over her.

Before we had Mini, Mr Rabbit was perfectly litter trained and extremely clean, very easy to look after. We had Mr Rabbit in his hutch, which was upstairs, when we’re out at work during the day and let him out downstairs in the lounge with us every evening when we’re at home. We would take his litter box from his hutch and place is downstairs in the lounge in the corner where he’s chosen to do his business. This rountine has worked well for us and Mr Rabbit.

However, things changed since we’ve brought Mini. We brought a new bigger hutch for them both, so that they had the space and room to run around. Also because I had been advised to have them both in new terriority which helps with the bonding process. This has worked well in terms of bonding, but has been a continious nightmare for the peeing!

Mr Rabbit pees everywhere but in his litter box. I’ve tried all possible things, like praise him when he uses his litter box, put litter boxes in the corners where there’s pee, put treats in the litter box to encourage him to go in there. I’m running out of ideas! Today I found pee in the bedding area in both corners. Mr Rabbit wouldn’t normally pee in his bedding area in the hutch. This would mean I would need 4 litter boxes in each corner.

From reading other forums, I understand that this a territorial thing but I’m slowly losing my mind in terms of what to do. I have to clean the ‘territorial’ pee at least 5 times a day!

Please help!!!!!

[Karla]

When a new bunny enters another bunny’s territory, the famous “poop war” begins. It is so much easier when they stick to only poo, but you have been so unlucky that there is pee as well. Sorry to hear about that. Good news is that it usually goes away after 2-3 months…you think it will never end, but it will!

I had a big struggle as well with this, as the whole cage was quickly turned into a toilet despite the fact I had two litter boxes in there. The solution? I actually gave in and turned the whole cage into one big toilet, and it worked wonders. It actually made cleaning much easier as well.

Also, there was some occasional pee on the floor among all the poop. I vacumed every day, twice sometimes, and washed the floor every day as well to remove any scents, so the other one didn’t feel the need to mark as well. It was tough work. I also tried confining them for a few days, which might be a solution for you?

 

[Mr Rabbit & Mini]

Thank you for your reply and advice. Can you give me more information when you said you turned the whole hutch into a toilet please? Do you mean you didnt put a litter box in the hutch? Did you have any sawdust and hay in there?

I guess if all fails then it’ll be just be a time issue, just to sit and wait it out.

[jerseygirl]

Welcome to you!

1)I just have a couple questions. Has Mr Rabbit been fixed for a long time or just recent;y prior to Mini’s arrival.
2) Have you always had bedding in the hutch along with the litterbox?
3) I gathering from what you’ve posted that Min And Mr Rabbit are sharing this new space. Are you certain it is him that is the culprit?

I’d try removing the bedding from the hutch first. It will help you clean up accidents more easily, and will aid in training Mini if she is not yet trained. Having litter/bedding just in the litter box helps them define the appropriate area.

How are you going about cleaning up the accidents? A solution of 50/50 water:vinegar helps as it neutralises the urine smell.

[Deleted User]

I would not keep the two rabbits together until Mini is spayed. She will hit puberty soon and you are risking a fight between them which will make bonding harder. Separate the two and start re-introducing them again one month after her spay in a neutral space. If they get on fine, you will be able to cement their permanent bond in the neutral space for a couple of weeks and then you can move them into the big hutch again with litterbox. You should then see only scattered poos but no pee. The poo war may last for a few weeks to a couple of months but they will be temporary.
The fact that he is peeing everywhere indicates he is ticked off with her being in his space and not ready to share it with her. Her spay and proper bonding intros between them in neutral space will fix this.

[Mr Rabbit & Mini]

Hi Jerseygirl,

In answer to your questions:

1) Has Mr Rabbit been fixed for a long time or just recent;y prior to Mini’s arrival?

Sorry I dont know what fixed means, but guessing it means neutered, if I am correct then Mr Rabbit has been neutered since he was 5-6 months, which was about 2 years ago.

2) Have you always had bedding in the hutch along with the litterbox?

We used to have sawdust covering the flooring of the hutch and the litterbox, we would have hay in their bedding area. Since all the peeing happened we now leave the flooring of the hutch empty, with just hay in the bedding area and sawdust in the litterbox. As you said, it just makes it easier to clean up.

3) I gathering from what you’ve posted that Min And Mr Rabbit are sharing this new space. Are you certain it is him that is the culprit?

I have seen Mr Rabbit peeing outside the litterbox a couple of times. On one ocassion I saw him sitting backwards in the litterbox with his backside hanging over the edge of the litterbox and peed all over the outside on the floor of the hutch. My partner has witnessed Mini peeing in the litterbox a few times, we haven’t seen her peeing anywhere else.

At present we just use a standard cage cleaner spray to clean up their mess. I will buy some vinegar tomorrow and use that to clean with instead.

[Mr Rabbit & Mini]

Thank you for your advice Petzy, at present we only have 2 hutches. One was Mr Rabbit’s hutch and the other is the new one we brought when we brought Mini. This was so that they could be introduced on mutral grounds and surroundings. Would you suggest us buying a third hutch to sepereate them until Mini is spayed? When do female rabbits start puberty?

[Monkeybun]

I have a couple questions:

What kind of sawdust do you use? Pine, cedar, aspen?

What kind of litterbox? A triangle corner one, or a cat sized rectangular one?

[Deleted User]

Smaller breeds of rabbits enter puberty at around four months, larger breeds at around 6 months. You will know when she does, she will change noticeably in her behavior.

I would not get a third hutch, just let each one have one hutch. Then, when it comes time to bond them, you will need some sort of neutral (new) enclosure for them to avoid territorial fighting. If you are lucky they will bond easily and can just share one of your current hutches, but this is unlikely. I would buy an xpen if I were you to bond them, cement them in there, and so that their habitat will be big enough.

[jerseygirl]

Yes. I meant neutered. Sorry, I tend to use terms we use a lot on these boards.

The term “cement” that Petzy used in another of these words we use commonly here. In bonding, once the rabbits can be trusted together unsupervised, it is often a good idea to have them share a space 24/7 to really solidify or “cement” their new bond.

[Mr Rabbit & Mini]

I’m not too sure what type of sawdust, I thinks it pine sawdust and the litter box a traingular one.

[Deleted User]

Thanks, Jersey, it could be confusing, that term…

[Monkeybun]

Switch out the sawdust. Cedar and pine shavings are NOT good for bunnies. Can cause liver and respiratory problems If you want to use shavings, use aspen instead.

Alot of bunnies don’t seem to like the triangle boxes. They are just too small to be comfortable. My 3 all have the large rectangle cat litter boxes, with carefresh and hay in them More room to be comfy, and don’t have to worry about butts sticking over that front edge.

[jerseygirl]

It’s obvious Mini’s arrival was a trigger. Some rabbits can be territorial about their litter boxes. So if Mini was in it, he might have peed nearby in protest or to mark. Even though he’s neutered, they can still have fluctuation in hormone and having her there could well have made him a little hormonal and brought about some of this behaviour.

For litter, some pine like pelleted pine or kiln dried pine is ok as the processing take care of the volitlie oils that can irritate. Shavings and sawdust aren’t terribly absorbant though. With 2 rabbit now you may want to look into pellet wood litters. They prety great with odour and absorbancy and very cheap too.

[lashkay]

I didn’t care for corner litterboxes for the same reasons Monkeybun and many others don’t, until I discovered these standout exceptions. Rectangular cat boxes are good and I had one for my first bunny, Lash, but if you’re set on a corner box, I can vouch for this great Marchioro enclosed loo (in the bend of the purple tunnel in the first pic). I got both the larger (in the second picture) and smaller sizes on amazon.  The smaller size (the 2 cc nora) is just right for my lionhead, in the 1st pic, and a larger size (the 3 cc nora) is identical, but big enough for up to a young Flemish Giant I would say.  They suit buns’ natural tendency to pee in a corner & the buns LOVE their “toilet in a warren” feel and so do I; cleaning the Carefresh litter out is easy and the see-through lid is on a hinge in the back so it just flips up and down. Of course, you could just as easily use the pine stove pellets Jerseygirl suggested.  They also have a convenient tie on the back so you can secure it to the bars of  your pen.   By all means check them out on amazon:com: Marchioro corner 2 cc/ 3 cc litter pan.  My Dustor and Buddie before him, love to go to these hidey-hole litter boxes to do their business!

 

[Deleted User]

I really don’t think this has anything to do with shape of litterbox or litter setup in general as Mr Rabbit’s litter habits were perfectly clean before Mini came into the pcture.

[Mr Rabbit & Mini]

Lashkay, your lionhead is so adorable! I guess it’ll be a trail and error with all the advice everyone has given. Just as an update I have used 50/50 water and vinegar which seems to have some effect. There aren’t that many puddles of pee and I have seen Mr Rabbit and Mini using their litter box a few times since, which is a good sign. The puddles of pee has reduced in quantity, I only need to clean up about twice a day as suppose to minimum of 5 times a day.

 

[Mr Rabbit & Mini]

Yes I agree, as everything was fine with Mr Rabbit before Mini came along. It just seems strange that Mr Rabbit feels the need to mark his territory as he loves Mini and always makes sure she has first picks of their food and water. But I guess, its just a natural animal instinct.

I checked the bale of sawdust I’m using, it doesn’t specify what type it is, it just says top quality dust extracted shavings, which doesn’t help. I have been thinking about changing to pellets, but there’s not many choices where I am. I will look again now that I know a little bit more about it.

 

[Monkeybun]

Posted By Petzy on 08/17/2010 08:34 AM
I really don’t think this has anything to do with shape of litterbox or litter setup in general as Mr Rabbit’s litter habits were perfectly clean before Mini came into the pcture.

 

I know, I just get concerned when people say “shavings”.

[jerseygirl]

They look an adorable pair from that picture in your profile! On your comment about him being happy about his friend but strange about territorial peeing, it reminded me about spraying. Even neutered bucks can still do this. Spray another rabbit with urine. It’s supposed to be a compliment. Not so much to us! And beside territorial toileting, they can just lose litter habits when there has been a change or if there’s and underlying health issue. All that aside, it’s good to hear you’re seeing some improvements now.

[lashkay]

Sorry for the delay, been visiting and caring for my Mom and didn’t have access to a computer much. Thanks, Mr Rabbit and Mini for your compliments for little Buddie in the photos, he, though now deceased, could be a little Jimmy Cagney toughie at times, and to see the amount of grooming of himself he did, and now little Dustor does, as well, you’d think they both were and are on to themselves! So glad to hear things are improving on the litterbox front for you and your adorable pair. Sounds like you’re on to some great solutions…keep up the good work!

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