Help! Ruckus during 5-7am

[clop]

Hi!

I’m desperate for some advice – Buns is SUPER active between the hours of 5-7 am (it varies every day).  He hurtles around the cage and flips his litter pan over and over.  His cage is a good size, the size of some x pens.   He used to live in a condo, but it was not secure enough – after a night of hurtling, he managed to knock it over.  I noticed after a strenous running/jumping, he sits and poops, or pees. 

This is quite serious, I am at my wits end.  Rehoming him has been brought up by my dh, and that is something that was(is) not an option.  My dh sleeps (tries to) during this time, and I get up and pet him, or let him out of the cage.  Then I go back to bed.  Sometimes I am up for an hour, or awaken several times in the span of 2 hours.  However soon I will be unable to take supplementary naps during the day, and I cannot get by on so little sleep.   This is seriously affecting our sleep schedule, and we do not want it to affect our work.

Is there anything I can change – feeding or exercise time, to adjust his schedule? 

Our apartment is “studio-ish,” there is nowhere else to put Buns other than the bathroom.  DH suggested this morning to put him in a box in the bathroom until he settled down, but I nixed that idea.  Is that something I should consider?

Buns cannot be free range yet, his potty habits are still quite bad.  Inside the cage they’re great, but once he’s out, it’s 50/50.

I read the responses to starj1114’s thread, and they seem very helpful.  Buns is a sound sleeper – lights, loud music, or tv do not wake him up, or keep him awaks.  While we love his mellowness, we joke about his ability to survive in the wild.  Forgot to add – he has toys in his cage, paper towel roll, twine ball thing he likes to chew).  (Sorry, wasn’t sure whether to continue there or post a new thread).  Are there any additional tips?

Thanks again!

ps. regarding potty training – is it really that bad to have him pee/poo in a corner of the cage without a litter pan?  (for him to sit on the metal wire floor).  This way he cannot flip the pan.  Right now the pan in partially secured by his food bowl, but he manages to lift it 3 inches off the floor, and it slams back down, which is really noisy.  I really don’t know what to do.

[clop]

“There’s not really much you can (or should) do to try and change his Circadian rhythm, but he will mellow with time. “

I received this reply (full reply below) from Dr. Krempels. 

Am I terribly selfish for wanting to change his rhythm?  The highlighted “or should” implies that I should let him be.  All I know is that we cannot continue this way, and he will need to be rehomed if this goes on.   I cannot foresee getting by on brief interrupted sleep for the next few months.   I am a decently experienced rabbit companion, having had the pleasure of living with two wonderful free range buns for several years.  We had no idea this would happen, I suppose we were spoiled by the relative noiselessness of the prior two.  While I want more than anything for this to work out, her response did get me thinking – am I not a worthy rabbit companion for wanting to sleep through the night?

Full Response:

It seems that your boy is definitely a “morning person.”  

Some rabbits–especially when young–have a favorite time of day to get crazy and playful, and it’s normal.  There’s not really much you can (or should) do to try and change his Circadian rhythm, but he will mellow with time.  

It will help to have the cage open 24/7, once you’re able to do so.  This will give him a sense of control and freedom, and may dampen his need to “act out” to get you out of bed (he has learned he can control you this way, and now it’s probably too late to break him of this clever habit) this early.  He’ll do some windsprints, but since he won’t be cooped up and his energy getting to high levels, he will be calmer.

[BunnyMuffin]

Aww – that sounds really frustrating! My buns live in the living room and I sometimes hear them drinking at night, but not much ruckus. Do you have an extra x-pen on hand that you could set up at night to extend the size of his cage? Maybe make him feel like he has a bit more room to exercise in the morning? I have one that came with a waterproof mat type thing that goes underneath, which would help with the 50/50 littertrained issues – at least making for easy cleanup if there is an accident. That’s the type of setup I use when I go away on holidays – gives them a bit more extra space without requiring the bunny sitters to sit around and give them exercise time and then try to round them up again.

I haven’t read the other thread you’re referring to, but I have seen suggestions before to hang some dark material over the cage in hopes of making it seem darker longer and delaying the morning activity.

Hopefully some others that have dealt with this problem themselves will come along soon and give you some other advice! Good luck with it all!

[clop]

Hi BunnyMuffin!

Thanks so much for your response! I realize that my post was kind of a desperate vent. He was up this morning at 3:50 am, and I didn’t go back to bed until 5:21… all the while dh kept mumbling in his sleep to put the bun in the bathroom… I just cut 3 holes in his pan, and anchored the pan to the cage with zip ties, and placed a soft mat underneath to absorb any sound. At least we won’t wear the thudding of the pan against the metal tonight!

That’s a great idea about the additional xpen! Though there’s not really a space for it. I could try to reposition something. When he had the condo, and extra running space with the nic panels, he would still hurtle himself against them. lol like he longed for the “freedom” and extra space beyond the panels. This morning I didn’t let him out, but instead alternated between petting him, and getting him to not flip his pan. When I do let him out, he also hurtles around the room. That’s his thing I guess. He runs and throws his body against the walls, closet etc. Kind of like a race car driver cornering really really fast, and hitting/bouncing off the wall for extra momentum? Come to think of it, I don’t think drivers do that =) In any case, it’s like he runs and the propels himself off the walls. He’s free range during most of the day, well, his cage is open, but he on occasionally comes out until dusk (he sleeps most of the day, or just grooms himself in the cage. In the evening he comes and goes in to his cage, to eat, drink, sprawl out etc. If I randomly nudge him back into the cage sometimes he’ll all of the sudden “remember” to pee.

Good idea about the dark material – it may work for other buns, but not mine alas. He’s up sometimes without any glimmer of light outside. The past few days it’s been pitch dark. So he has some sort of wonky internal clock. Thanks for the suggestion though. =)

Thanks again for your advice, really appreciate it. btw Your buns are too cute!

[Beka27]

gosh… i wish i could tell you there was some magic cure, but there’s really not. it’s very common for buns to be energetic in the early morning hours, it’s their nature… but i have to admit i don’t have experience with them being active THAT early in the morning. i can definitely understand how your significant other would be annoyed. i am also one who LOVES LOVES LOVES to sleep uninterrupted…

i like bunnymuffin’s idea of an additional xpen, even if it’s just at night. at night you’re not walking around so even if it takes up the whole area, no harm done and you can take it down during the day.

i’m concerned about the bathroom idea b/c if your apartment is anything like my home, the sound from the bathroom may be more amplified than muffled. you could definitely try to put him in the bathroom at night, but you’d have to make sure it’s not pitch dark (maybe a nightlight would help if you don’t have a window in there?) and he cannot be put in a box. that’s not humane. either you’d have to put his cage in the bathroom or just allow him free run of the bathroom with a litterbox and hay.

[BunnyMuffin]

Well thanks – I’ll tell them you think so! That’s so strange that he feels the need to hurtle himself against stationary objects…not sure what to say about that. 🙂 You might just have to build him a room with some padded walls to fling himself against! hehe.

Hopefully tying down the litter pan helps a bit.

[kralspace]

wow clop, sounds like a bunny on steroids! I know what you mean about bouncing against things. When we first got Pringles, he would run into his small cage and binkie off the roof and walls til I thought he’d kill himself. He’d just bounce around like a maniac and rattle it like crazy.

I have to admit to taking revenge on my cats when they would have a 3am party. It happened to be days I was staying home, but still, I wanted to sleep and they were raising hell.

I waited until they settled in for their 12 hour nap and woke them up all day long to play with them and just generally mess up THEIR sleep. (mean, I know, but they never did it again lol)

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Here’s what works for me; Keep them up during the day; Your not home so they are bored and sleep. But turn the lights on and turn the TV or the radio on for them, to keep them company.

Then when it’s bed time, say ‘bedtime’ put them to bed and turn the lights off; Worked like a charm within a few days.

The other thing, maybe put her in another room so you can’t hear it

[BunnyLiz]

O my! I completely get the whole “leave me alone! im sleeping” thing. I get rudely awaken about three times a night on average. I didnt really notice with Hammer but now I hear them both. I close all my curtains and my door so their is only enough light for them to easily move in their cages, but not enough to make them feel the need to wake me up every hour lol. When they do i just talk to them for a few minutes, which holds their attention long enough for them to forget whatever it was they were doing and find a less noisy task to keep them busy. Its really automatic now, I have no idea what they are doing, what im saying, what time it is etc. I only comprehend enough to talk and get back to sleep lol. If I cant get them to settle down I just grab my pillow and find the couch lol, but that doesnt happen too often. No real advice though, sorry. I never have slept through the night even before the buns so Im not really bothered by this. If there is something i really need sleep for, i just skip the middle man and start out on the couch. Last week I was told I was talking in my sleep. I was really confused until i realized i must have been talking to Hammer and Rose lol hehe.

[clop]

Hi Beka! Thanks again for your help! you make perfect sense. When we’re sleeping it won’t matter if we have a bulky xpen. Last week dh looked around the room and said, “this is turning into the rabbit’s playroom, look at this!” (not in the best way). If we’re asleep it won’t matter =) Our apt is pretty well insulated, once our door is closed, we can’t really hear anything. However the bathroom wouldn’t really fit his cage. I definitely wouldn’t put him in a small box all night. If things don’t improve, I will try to bunnyproof the bathroom, and put him in there for the night rather than rehome him. Hopefully it won’t come to that.

Hi BunnyMuffin, yes, they’re very adorable. I still have to make it to the lounge area and look for everyone’s buns. Do you have more pics there? lol if this keeps up Buns won’t be the only one in a padded room, I’ll be there too! =) He’s not hurting himself, not running headfirst, rather like kralspace’s Pringles, more like binky off the walls for more momentum or something. I thought he lacked coordination, but it seems like he’s doing it on purpose. He’s binkied inches up to my nose; if he can do that, I’m sure he can avoid a wall. Yes, I hope the tied down litter pan will help. I tried lifting it myself, and it barely budges. When it drops back, it lands on the pad, so there’s no clanking metal noise.

Hi kralspace! “sounds like a bunny on steroids! I know what you mean about bouncing against things. When we first got Pringles, he would run into his small cage and binkie off the roof and walls til I thought he’d kill himself. He’d just bounce around like a maniac and rattle it like crazy. ” I’m so glad you know what I mean! wow!! off the roof? Buns is able to jump out of the top of the cage – 30″, so we leave the top closed. However, that doesn’t stop him from trying! Did Pringles calm down a bit? lol from your pic it looks like he’s such a mellow guy, just like my Buns. Maybe they’re so relaxed because they’ve spent all their energy in the morning. I’m glad your cats learned their lesson after the first time.

Hi Kokaneeandkahlua! that’s a good idea – I will try it for the rest of the week. Bright lights and sunshine don’t deter him from sleeping. Maybe loud noises do. On the weekend, dh likes to listen to music and watch movies, not terribly loud, but louder than I would myself. I think during those times I would see Buns sound asleep, but I will continue to make sure. Hopefully it will work. Unfortunately we can’t move him to another room, our layout is similar to a studio, the only other areas are the bathroom & kitchen. Thanks for the suggestions!

Hi BunnyLiz, I’m sorry to hear you don’t regularly sleep through the night. If you can do it, maybe I can too? my dh definitely can’t however. If I was on my own I’d probably suck it up and play with him in the morning, waiting the the day he is truly free range and he can run about at his content. However I do need to consider dh. That is so cute! I’m so glad you can talk to your buns and they settle down! and the fact you talked in your sleep automatically when you were on the couch – that is too cute!! how your buns must be loved, and how they love you! I pet Buns this morning for 5 minutes, he was quiet for 5 minutes, then he was at it again. This went on for 1.5 hours. humbug. The bun in your avatar is the most delicious shade of caramel, he/she is a beauty!

Thanks again everyone for your advice, help, and for letting me vent. It’s a great outlet. Also wanted to say all of your avatars are so cute – when I get a chance I’ll search for more pics of your buns. Would the best place be in the lounge?

[BunnyMuffin]

I think a lot of people do post pics in the lounge. I haven’t done that yet, but there are some of the two of them in my bonding Noelle and Wally thread in the bonding section. Keep us posted on how things pan out!

[jerseygirl]

Hard to reason with a bun at that time of the morning! Other than putting a sheet over his cage, I don’t know what else to suggest for keeping him quiet where he is. It could be his style of play, but if you get up and pet him, he’ll soon learn to expect that. I’m learning that you really cannot change a rabbits natural behaviour – you have to change the way you do things/ home set up etc. I would look at having him elsewhere overnigiht so he can make noise to his hearts delight. Do you have a bath in the bathroom? I’m not suggesting you keep Buns in there – dont worry! In my bathroom, I have a board that fits over the top of the bath as we don’t really use it. It increases our storage space but we can take it off if we do want to use the bath. Could you do something like that and put the cage on top? Could you put cage in the living room overnight?

[clop]

Hiya jerseygirl! I usually let him out of his cage, and he plays/zooms around for 15-20 minutes, then konks out. Today I figured he shouldn’t be in the habit of getting out, so I tried to calm him by petting, but as soon as I stopped, in 10 minutes, he was at it again. I think he views flipping his pan and making noise as play. I ended up taking out his pan in the end. For the rest of the day, he has been one CRANKY bun. He came out and played with me, we chased each other around the room, he ran circles. Later he sat down and started pooping, so I herded him back into his cage. He finished pooping, and hasn’t come out at all. He’s been sleeping ever since.

Ooh, that’s an excellent idea, using the space above the bathtub! I’d have to get a smaller cage to fit there. Maybe I will bunnyproof it. Thanks again for your reply. =)

[clop]

Hi!

Just received the following advice – get another bun! to keep him company (and keep him awake) during the day.

lol what if Buns entices the other to sleep during the day, and I then have TWO energetic bounding furballs in the am?! =)

Ideally at some point in the future, I will have a playmate for Buns, but I’m not confident this is the right time. Also, since we are limited in space, the whole room is his – I’m not sure where they would have neutral introduction space.

I’d also like to semi-update the situation. The tied down potty pan has been great. Absolutely great. Yesterday he did make a ruckus, bounding off the floor, walls, but I didn’t get up. I am a pretty good sleeper, it woke me up a few times, but I was able to go back to bed. (dh on the other hand was woken up numerous times and was pretty cranky). Yesterday night, both of us were not awaken at all. Let’s hope this continues. Though, I have a sneaking suspicion yesterday’s noiselessness was due to a new mat I put in that he spent the whole night digging. In any case, dh and I have come to an agreement – the noise is still loud enough to wake us up, but nowhere near as bad as when the pan would snap up and down. We will leave Buns alone, and hopefully he will not make such a ruckus. If it gets really noisy, dh will let me know to let him out/pet him etc. I hope this will work! Buns however is none too happy with me, and is ONE CRANKY BUN. I’m hoping that too will pass.

[BunnyMuffin]

If you can, try not to get out of bed to pet him and let him out. I agree with Dr. Krempels that he has trained you to succumb to his wills by making enough noise. It’s kinda like kids – if they throw a tantrum and you give them what they want, then it just teaches them that tantrums are effective. So when you stop giving in, they initially get worse because they push the boundaries even further to try and get you to cave, but if you stand your ground they learn that the tantrum doesn’t work anymore. So if you can tough it out a couple of nights, hopefully you can teach him his tantrums don’t work and he only gets out of the cage on your terms. Also – has your husband considered ear plugs? When I’m sick and coughing through the night, my bf puts in earplugs and is good to go. You can just turn the alarm up louder, or if you don’t need the ear plugs to sleep through it, you could wake him up when the alarm goes off. Might be enough to get him untrained and quieted down.

[clop]

Hiya BunnyMuffin!

Thanks!  that’s exactly what we’re going to do.  Thank goodness it’s only two more days until the weekend – so only two more days of restlessness until we can sleep in.  Hopefully we won’t need to.   Ugh, I’m prepared for it getting worse, though not looking forward to it.   DH is very particular, he does really like Buns, though when he’s fed up he’s especially cranky.  Earplugs would be in his best interest, but I doubt he go for them.  ex.  He asks if Buns has enough toys, boxes etc, but will later exclaim, look at this room – it’s turned into a rabbit room.  I think he’d rather forgo sleep, than have to alter his sleeping habbits via earplugs.  Are earplugs easy to use?  I didn’t know until recently that my friends also use them, it’s normal to do so.   lol maybe I’ve been living in a bubble.  We have a pair of earbud earphones, he’s used to that, so maybe he will be receptive to the idea.  Thanks for your response, appreciate it!

[BunnyMuffin]

Oh yes – earplugs are simple. We just have the little foamy kind. You squish up, then pop em in your ears, and the foam expands to take the shape of your ear and keep the sound waves out. I love them on airplanes – ride along in silence. And they are much much more comfortable than earbud earphones. Those make my ear hurt, but earplugs are nice and comfy – at least I think they are! I say that if he has a viable solution but chooses not to use it because he’d rather complain – then he loses all sympathy and complaining rights! 😉

[clop]

“I say that if he has a viable solution but chooses not to use it because he’d rather complain – then he loses all sympathy and complaining rights! 😉 ”

I totally agree. Oops did I say that out loud? 😉 Unfortunately, there might be a difference in opinion on whether it’s viable. In any case, I am optimistic things will mellow.

[clop]

Ugh – It’s going to take some brainstorming to keep Buns awake during the day.

I was just vacuuming the far side of the room, and he was still asleep! when the cleaner came right next to his cage, he woke up, moved away, and went back to sleep!

I’m really glad he’s such a mellow bun. Though come to think of it, my holland lop used to chase and charge at the vacuum cleaner whenever it was too close to his favorite places. I seem to get the fearless buns, though both do not like strangers.

[BunMumTiff]

Dont worry my Harley is the SAME way throwing and bangng of the walls of the cage and everything else hubby is annoyed and got up this morning and took everything out of his cage but water food and litter worked a bit but then Harley bites the litter pan….sigh who knows my fate in a couple weeks I am sure Harley will be moved to another location in our house. But I am with you

[bunnytowne]

Oh my I am so glad my buns are quiet. Phew.  Yes the litterbox tied to the cage with a mat under it good idea.

Hmm  to keep bun up. Keep going over to him and pick him up that will at least wake him for a while. Nudge him and roll him over and such. Hmm mellow bun?   HE doesn’t sound mellow at 3 am.  Even moving his cage around when you are home to try and wake him and keep messing with him.  HEhehe. Payback time bun bun.

[Beka27]

the past couple mornings i’ve woken up with my husband (yawn!) at 4:30am (double YAWN!!!) and as i was falling back asleep after he left i heard a bun, not sure who, kind of ricochetting off the pen walls. i agree, that is annoying that early. mine only did the rounds 2 or 3 times and then settled down and i was able to pass out.

has anything been working?

[clop]

Hi BumMumTiff, Oh NO! So sorry to hear Harley’s up to the same antics so early in the am. Hope he settles down soon, or at least that you won;t hear the ruckus when he’s moved to another room. Unfortunately we don’t have that luxury at the moment, our setup is studio like. What breed (how large) and how old is Harley? I’m hoping Buns will calm down as he ages – he’s 6 months, so spunky adolescent? Everything in Bun’s cage is bolted down, but the cage still shakes when he bounds around. Part of the problem is that there’s a wire floor (completely covered with a thick fleece). However, him jumping up and down still clangs, and is quite noisy. ugh.

Hi Bunnytowne! LUCKY LUCKY you!! Thank you so much for those ideas! I will use every one of them. Noise and light have almost no effect on him (which normally is a great thing, as I don’t need to tell the hubby to turn down the tv or speakers etc). I hadn’t thought of any of those – he looks so so angelic when he’s sleeping, snuggled or flopped over, I didn’t want to bother him but… tough times call for tough measures! I’m not always home during the day, but will follow your advice when I can.

Hiya Beka! Thanks for asking, here’s an update:

So yesterday, Buns was perfect (though I think it was because he was preoccupied with digging a new mat.) This morning, he was rattling rattling rattling. He was jumping full force trying to open the top of the cage. Plus bounding around. Hubs woke up and told me to wake up and take care of the bun. Then he hit the top of the cage – he rattled back at the bun. Of course I was awake, I was just hoping Buns was going to settle down and not wake up dh. Buns was quiet for 10 minutes, then acted up again. I put a heavy comforter over the top of the cage, and Buns was quiet for good. I’m not sure if it was the fear factor, or because it really muffled the sound. In any case, I will try that again tomorrow. It was hard not to get up and let him out, but I stuck to my guns =) I told dh of the plan today, explaining I was awake, but purposely did not let him out.

So here’s something I noticed – Buns is still cranky with me. Dh loves to pet and play with him, but never does any training. By training I mean herd the Bun back in to the cage when it looks like he is going to pee, to steer him to chew/dig “approved” toys and not the furniture etc. So basically, I am the one who annoys the Bun. Buns and I have this thing, I pet his head, and run and jump across the room, and he follows me, running in circles and binkies. However sometimes when I pet him (outside the cage), he turns his back to me, or moves away. He doesn’t do this to dh. Is it because I’m the one who always bugs him, moves him to the cage, or away from his favorite illegal chewing spots? I’m kinda thinking if I keep him awake during the day, his view of me will only worsen. But I’m still going to keep him up during the day. anyhow, I’ll update tomorrow, wish me luck! =)

[jerseygirl]

That sucks you have to be the one who has to play “bad parent”!   We need better conditions for bunny slaves! Have you thought more about relocating is cage overnight?

[bunnytowne]

Awe you are stuck being bad bunny parent.  Hey go on strike Hehee.

I had a friend go on strike. Her hubby would come home and claim she did nothing all day.  So she went on strike.  He noticed real quick what she did during the day while he was at work heehe.

Can you pull that oh dh?   Hey try giving buns extra treats when dh is not looking hehee.

[clop]

Hi jerseygirl & bunnytowne!

He was QUIET last night!  right before bed he ran around and binkied like crazy, so I think that helped.  Though he also peed outside the cage…grrr…

Yes, I am the bad parent.  Lol there was a time when dh said, “we should only give treat to him in his cage” and then I caught him giving Buns bananas outside!  He said he forgot, plus he was so happy Buns played with him, he deserved a reward.  “He doesn’t like me as much as you, I need to give him treats”   sheesh.

 

 

[BunnyMuffin]

Haha – well at least that means he wants the bun to like him – which implies that he likes the bun, despite his noise making skills. I’m glad he was quiet last night! Hopefully he’s starting to catch on. 🙂

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Sorry, I have no advice and all I can say is:

I

FEEL

YOUR

PAIN!

Fern wakes up at five or four and either digs or chews madly, sometimes she does laps around her pen, one day I left a cardboard toilet paper roll in her cage bars, big mistake to leave it in at night. She was chewing it like a madman at four, I halfheartedly yelled “FERN” but then I just resorted to putting a pillow over my head. Sometimes if she wakes me up at six instead of five or four I actually enjoy watching her during her mad hour or so. Luckaly I am a deep sleeper and sleep through most things Fern does.

[clop]

Hi BunnyMuffin & Moonlight Wolf, thanks for your replies. aww, Fern is so cute! I’m so glad you can sleep through it.

I’d like to give everyone an update – Buns has been quiet since the 12th! He’s been quiet for almost a week!! Knock on wood…
The heavy blanket really helps. I’m not sure if it muffles the rattling, or dissuades him from doing laps, but it’s great! Plus, he’s discovered our bed, and does crazy binkies, running, turning, jumping on it, so maybe he’s more tired out? Or his hormones are stabilizing? In any case, we can sleep! I’m so glad, thanks so much for everyone’s help and support. It was a really stressful sleepless time, and it was really nice to have a place to vent, and gather such helpful replies. Thanks again!

[BunnyMuffin]

Woohoo!! That’s great news! I’m glad things are finally settling down. Here’s hoping the sleep filled nights continue. 🙂

[Beka27]

that’s wonderful!

[Author]

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