HELP; INSIDE OR OUTSIDE?

[Lauren]

Hi everyone! My name is Lauren and I’m a new member!

Before I get started I’d just like to say 1. I haven’t got my rabbits yet as I’m not prepared to get them until I’m sure I have the right accommodation for them, and 2. I did read a post about outside rabbits to see that the majority of the users on here are inside advocates.

So, obviously I will be a new bunny owner, I’ve done some research but always find it’s nicer to get people’s experiences. I’ll be getting two rabbits so they always have a companion and we’re going to get a smaller breed as we know we don’t have enough room for a bigger breed. I’m also going to mention now that I have a 3 and a half year old daughter.

So the question is, do I house them inside or outside.

The inside accommodation would have to be my conservatory as that’s the only space we’d have available to them. It’s an open entryway from the kitchen but we can put an extending baby gate of some kind so they can’t access the kitchen (not bunny safe) there are no cables or wires in this room but there are 3 plug sockets, a radiator, our dining table (which would have to stay in here) and blinds to cover the two floor to ceiling windows. I’m thinking we would have to box in the radiator and around the bottoms of the windows so they couldn’t get to the beading that attaches the blinds together. The room is a lot more then 8ft by 4ft and it has stone flooring. So my questions for this are:-
Will they be too hot in here even though I have thick vertical blinds to cover the windows?
Is it safe for them to be on stone floor with the exception of blankets etc. in their ‘bedroom area’?
Seen as I can’t close a door from the conservatory to the kitchen, will noises like the kettle, cooking noises, the very loud final spin on the washing machine, be really horrible for them?
And what about us eating in there, how will they feel about that?

This then brings me on to the outdoor accommodation. The hutch and run will be plenty big enough, my partner is building one himself and he feels very strongly about hutches being like a prison cell. We do have a nice big patch of grass for them to be on but not big enough for something like a shed or avery. I read that we would need to put the mesh underground too to stop them from burrowing out and other animals from burrowing in, and also that we would need very big taurpalin to cover it when it’s raining so they can still access the grass and be able to excercise. So my questions are:-
Will keeping them outside mean that in winter months I can’t bring them inside for a bit because of the change in temperature?
They will be babies so will they be too scared to be outside?

Sorry this is an incredibly long post but I don’t want to take on rabbits unless I know I can give them a good quality life, my views are that I want them to stay wild in a way and that’s why I’d like them to be outside, they can forage and dig to their hearts content and always feel grass under their feet if they want to. But I also want to be able to keep them safe and warm and be able to sit with them every morning and afternoon and bond with them.

Thanks for taking the time to read, lauren x

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Lauren on 5/16/2017 6:30 AM

Hi everyone! My name is Lauren and I’m a new member!

Before I get started I’d just like to say 1. I haven’t got my rabbits yet as I’m not prepared to get them until I’m sure I have the right accommodation for them, and 2. I did read a post about outside rabbits to see that the majority of the users on here are inside advocates.

So, obviously I will be a new bunny owner, I’ve done some research but always find it’s nicer to get people’s experiences. I’ll be getting two rabbits so they always have a companion and we’re going to get a smaller breed as we know we don’t have enough room for a bigger breed. I’m also going to mention now that I have a 3 and a half year old daughter.

So the question is, do I house them inside or outside.

The inside accommodation would have to be my conservatory as that’s the only space we’d have available to them. It’s an open entryway from the kitchen but we can put an extending baby gate of some kind so they can’t access the kitchen (not bunny safe) there are no cables or wires in this room but there are 3 plug sockets, a radiator, our dining table (which would have to stay in here) and blinds to cover the two floor to ceiling windows. I’m thinking we would have to box in the radiator and around the bottoms of the windows so they couldn’t get to the beading that attaches the blinds together. The room is a lot more then 8ft by 4ft and it has stone flooring. So my questions for this are:-
Will they be too hot in here even though I have thick vertical blinds to cover the windows?
Is it safe for them to be on stone floor with the exception of blankets etc. in their ‘bedroom area’?
Seen as I can’t close a door from the conservatory to the kitchen, will noises like the kettle, cooking noises, the very loud final spin on the washing machine, be really horrible for them?
And what about us eating in there, how will they feel about that?

This then brings me on to the outdoor accommodation. The hutch and run will be plenty big enough, my partner is building one himself and he feels very strongly about hutches being like a prison cell. We do have a nice big patch of grass for them to be on but not big enough for something like a shed or avery. I read that we would need to put the mesh underground too to stop them from burrowing out and other animals from burrowing in, and also that we would need very big taurpalin to cover it when it’s raining so they can still access the grass and be able to excercise. So my questions are:-
Will keeping them outside mean that in winter months I can’t bring them inside for a bit because of the change in temperature?
They will be babies so will they be too scared to be outside?

Sorry this is an incredibly long post but I don’t want to take on rabbits unless I know I can give them a good quality life, my views are that I want them to stay wild in a way and that’s why I’d like them to be outside, they can forage and dig to their hearts content and always feel grass under their feet if they want to. But I also want to be able to keep them safe and warm and be able to sit with them every morning and afternoon and bond with them.

Thanks for taking the time to read, lauren x

-If you get two bunnies (which I agree is the best option – no bun wants to be lonely!) make sure you read up on bonding. 

-Smaller breeds don’t necessarily require less space. If they’re not free roam, they need their enclosure to be big enough that they can run, jump and binky plenty. Obviously giants need more space to be able to do this but breeds that are average size or dwarf size don’t have vastly different requirements. 

-It might be too hot in the conservatory but you can use fans and have cool spots for them.

-My bunnies are free roam and spend most of their time in the living room which is open plan with my tiny kitchen. They hear everything. Kettle, oven, washing machine etc. My doe is okay and doesn’t bat an eyelid, my boy is okay with the kettle, the washing machine he tolerates tho he doesn’t like it and the oven can be an issue due to both sound and smell. As long as he has access to his favourite spot, he’s okay. So it might bother them but it might not and if it does, hopefully they’ll become accustomed to it

-Personally I believe rabbits should be kept indoors. You wouldn’t get a puppy with the expectation that they’ll live their life outside would you? Rabbits are prey animals and even if they ARE safe from predators, they won’t know that so they’ll still be terrified. Keeping them outside also stops you from learning what’s normal behaviour and what isn’t which ultimately could save their life if they were to get sick. I would never keep mine outside. I know wild rabbits obviously live outside, but they spend their life being scared until inevitably they get killed. Just because it’s what their wild ancestors do doesn’t mean it’s best for them. 

-As I said, mine are free roam indoor bunnies and I get to interact with them, I get to watch them when they’re being mischievous, silly, and a little crazy. I wouldn’t change that for the world. Having rabbits is an absolute joy when you can really bond with them and see their personalities come alive. I think keeping them outside doesn’t allow that to happen. You can always let them out for a couple hours of supervised play time anyway.

[vanessa]

Hi Lauren, welcome, and thank you for researching!
I want to add to what Sarah wrote.

– It would be easiest for you to adopt an already bonded pair! That way you don’t have to house 2 bunnies separately while you go through the bonding process.
– Agree on the space requirement. In fact, 8×4 is the smallest space my bunnies would accept without acting up.
– 2 of my bunnies are in half a “bunny room” (6ftx11ft). 1 bunny is in the other half, and she has the option of exploring the hallway, and my room. My 4th bunny is in my room. He is disabled and I keep him cordoned off from Guinevere. None of my bunnies have reacted to any household noise. Good on you for considering bunny proofing… It is very very important.
– I also believe rabbits should be indoors. I started with outdoor bunnies, and I did my best to give them plenty of space to run (the entire front yard), I did my best to keep them safe from flies and pests, but I ended up bringing them indoors. The summer sun was too much.(Winter snow was absolutely fine). Morgana escaped 3 times, I caught her each time. Eventually, 3 of the 4 got flystrike, one got it two seasons in a row. I’v seen how they like indoors vs outdoors, and they are all waaaaayyyyyyy happier indoors. I don’t feel they are missing out on anything. They are so much more comfortable in the house, not to mention safer.
Keeping them indoors will allow you to have much more time with them, it will make it easier to bond with them, they will be able to enjoy your company.

Question – I am not familiar with the term “conservatory”. Is it a sunroom? Stone floors are fine. They are actually really cool in summer, Just give them different blankets/fleece so they have soft and varied surfaces, to avoid sore hocks.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By vanessa on 5/16/2017 11:31 AM

Hi Lauren, welcome, and thank you for researching!
I want to add to what Sarah wrote.

– It would be easiest for you to adopt an already bonded pair! That way you don’t have to house 2 bunnies separately while you go through the bonding process.
– Agree on the space requirement. In fact, 8×4 is the smallest space my bunnies would accept without acting up.
– 2 of my bunnies are in half a “bunny room” (6ftx11ft). 1 bunny is in the other half, and she has the option of exploring the hallway, and my room. My 4th bunny is in my room. He is disabled and I keep him cordoned off from Guinevere. None of my bunnies have reacted to any household noise. Good on you for considering bunny proofing… It is very very important.
– I also believe rabbits should be indoors. I started with outdoor bunnies, and I did my best to give them plenty of space to run (the entire front yard), I did my best to keep them safe from flies and pests, but I ended up bringing them indoors. The summer sun was too much.(Winter snow was absolutely fine). Morgana escaped 3 times, I caught her each time. Eventually, 3 of the 4 got flystrike, one got it two seasons in a row. I’v seen how they like indoors vs outdoors, and they are all waaaaayyyyyyy happier indoors. I don’t feel they are missing out on anything. They are so much more comfortable in the house, not to mention safer.
Keeping them indoors will allow you to have much more time with them, it will make it easier to bond with them, they will be able to enjoy your company.

Question – I am not familiar with the term “conservatory”. Is it a sunroom? Stone floors are fine. They are actually really cool in summer, Just give them different blankets/fleece so they have soft and varied surfaces, to avoid sore hocks.

Yes adopting an already bonded pair would be so much less stressful! I’m so happy you manged to catch Morgana after her escape, how on earth did you do it? Me and my boyfriend tried to catch a domestic bunny that was running round the neighbourhood (he had escaped his hutch) We just couldn’t catch him. This was before I got my bunnies and started to understand rabbit behaviour tho. Hope I never have to try that again!

Oh and yeah I believe conservatory and sun room are the same thing

[vanessa]

Morgana was living in the front yard at the time. Animals that can see out – (outdoor birds included), can see back in. So they know where home is. Unless they are really unhappy, I believe based on experience – that they want to come back home. It’s what they know. I’v had aviary birds escape by accident and they just hung around the aviary trying to get back in. I caught them by placing a cage with seed within their sight, on the aviary roof or hung from the aviary wall. Easy to catch. Hopefully never have to again! I’m rebuilding my aviary…

Back to Morgana… once she got out of the front yard, she would hang out nearby within sight. She liked to hang out under one of the shrubs next to the driveway. I would open the chainlink gate, get my boyfriend or neighbor to help, and honestly just chase her back. We tried to scoop her up with a large net, but she was much to quick for that. So feeling threatened by us, she would run back into the yard as that was the home she knew. She was free range in the front yard with an open hutch, at that time. And wild as could be. The place I got her from – said that she had escaped a few times there too. Yeah – chasing a bunny is bad… She would squeeze under the fence, so I blocked it by tying chicken wire to the fence and laying it on the ground. She would squeeze through the gap in the gate hardware – so I filled the gap with a pvc tube. She was hard to keep contained.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By vanessa on 5/16/2017 1:37 PM

Morgana was living in the front yard at the time. Animals that can see out – (outdoor birds included), can see back in. So they know where home is. Unless they are really unhappy, I believe based on experience – that they want to come back home. It’s what they know. I’v had aviary birds escape by accident and they just hung around the aviary trying to get back in. I caught them by placing a cage with seed within their sight, on the aviary roof or hung from the aviary wall. Easy to catch. Hopefully never have to again! I’m rebuilding my aviary…

Back to Morgana… once she got out of the front yard, she would hang out nearby within sight. She liked to hang out under one of the shrubs next to the driveway. I would open the chainlink gate, get my boyfriend or neighbor to help, and honestly just chase her back. We tried to scoop her up with a large net, but she was much to quick for that. So feeling threatened by us, she would run back into the yard as that was the home she knew. She was free range in the front yard with an open hutch, at that time. And wild as could be. The place I got her from – said that she had escaped a few times there too. Yeah – chasing a bunny is bad… She would squeeze under the fence, so I blocked it by tying chicken wire to the fence and laying it on the ground. She would squeeze through the gap in the gate hardware – so I filled the gap with a pvc tube. She was hard to keep contained.

Goodness me I imagine that would be quite a sight to see  I was quite annoyed at our attempted rabbit rescue – the rspca said they couldn’t help til we’d caught him. Erm that’s what we were struggling with! And when we finally found the woman he belonged to she didn’t seem to care. She said she hasn’t been able to catch him but neither me nor my partner ever saw anyone other than ourselves trying to catch him!

[vanessa]

Yeah I think it would be tricky to catch a rabbit who doesn’t have a home base within sight – to go back to.

[Ellie from The Netherlands]

Welcome to the forum It’s great to see that you’re preparing so well before you make the decision! Many people adopt rabbits on the whim, or even receive them as gifts, because the general idea of the public is that they’re low-maintenance animals. Many rabbits are dumped and left at shelters because people were unprepared for these really surprising things about rabbits:

– Rabbits may be cheap to buy and to feed, but they need a specialised vet to take care of them. They may even be outside of your area, a regular vet often has no expertise to properly treat a rabbit. Simple vet-visits like a check-up aren’t so costly, but an ovenight stay at the clinic or some dental work (which a lot of ageing buns need) and you’re putting the 100-bills on the desk. Yikes…
– Rabbits have their own daily schedule. Often they’re active in the mornings, sleeping in the afternoon and become cuddly later in the evening. They also dislike it when their schedule is interrupted, you’ll likely be looking at a grumpy bunny if you try to pet them while they’re resting. If you want something it’s their way, and on their terms. This may be difficult to accept for young children  who just want to cuddle their pet. Also, a rabbit’s schedule needs to fit your household, and rabbits definitely love staying up late for late evening cuddles.
– Rabbits can live to be 8 or 12 years, so people are looking at at least a decade of care for them. A rabbit can need up to 3 hours of supervised exercise time outside of their cage every day. Having a new rabbit is just like having a new puppy, you’ll have to invest a lot of time and effort into training and creating a bond.
– Rabbits may look calm, but are still quite feral deep inside. They have strong instincts to flee, to dig and to chew. A house will need to be proofed, and still they’ll likely damage property. Rabbits are easily bored, and if they’re out of fun things to do, they’ll make up some of their own fun and games. In extreme cases these games can go in the direction of: tunnel through the couch. People who can’t deal with a few bite marks on their furniture should definitely skip rabbits, because they’ll usually do a lot more than that.
– The last one is really a nasty surprise to most people: rabbits and kids often don’t work! Rabbits *hate* being picked up, held tightly and being cuddled high up in the air. Rabbits and young kids are usually a bad combination because of this. The media often portrays a rabbit being carried around by a child, like it’s a living teddy bear. This creates ideas like: “Hey that would be an easy and great first pet for my kids! A cute and calm little cuddle-bug” A dangerous misconception that has caused many rabbits to be abandoned. As a prey species, their instinct is to have both feet firmly on the ground. If they are picked up they will panic and soon start to squirm, scratch and bite. This is a dangerous situation for both the child and the rabbit, because rabbits are terribly fragile and can easily break bones if they fall. The child will often end up being disappointed if they wanted a cuddly pet, and they may even become scared of it. Rabbits will lay beside you on the couch, but only after a time of careful bonding. They require a very gentle hand, as they’re easily startled.

About the questions: in or out?, and: free or caged? Most of people here would definitely answer: in and free! Free doesn’t have to mean that they can get the whole house. A piece of the living room can also be enough. Here are the pro’s of having an indoor bun:

– Rabbits are very social animals who will seek you and your family out for cuddles and comfort. Allowing them in the center of your family activities will form a great bond, surprisingly like a bond with the family dog. Leaving a rabbit out is just like leaving a dog out in my opinion: of course it can be done, if properly housed, but why miss out on all the fun you could have together? Having my little bun free-roam around me all day really brightens my day. He comes to me when I’m not feeling well, we have our afternoon fruit-snacking time together, and he joins me on the couch in the evenings for extended cuddle sessions. I wouldn’t miss it for the world!
– Rabbits are masters at hiding illness or injury, because they’re a prey species and weakness makes them targets for predators. An unnoticed small digestive issue can become a terminal case within 12-24 hours. If rabbits are housed outside, you may easily miss the small signs. A couple of weeks ago I stayed up late until 1 when my BF was already in bed. At 11 our Breintje was still happily hopping and munching, and suddenly he became limp, lethargic and wouldn’t eat or poop. After some quick intervention on my side and he started eating again at around 5 in the morning. Crisis averted, but always a close call…
– Rabbits don’t handle heat well. It’s important that you can regulate the heat of their area. Unless you live in a cool climate, a house is definitely best for that.
– Rabbits are easily stressed because they’re a prey species. Even the friendly and curious neighbourhood cat may send them into a frenzy, with the possibility of death by a heart attack.
– Rabbits are extremely fun to watch and bring a little moment of happyness and relaxation into your house. Just looking at them lounging about makes you happy instantly.

[Author]

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