Help! Difficult bonding!

[Ashley Rose]

 

Okay so this might be pretty lengthy but please bare with me! I need some help!

 

Okay so I have two 3 year old neutered males. Judgement is the lionhead (resident bunny) and Oliver is the (new) lop bunny. Judgement is a chill and very lazy bunny. He rarely moves because more than half the time hes just flopped on the carpet. I must add hes a super picky bunny with lots of personality. Oliver, at the shelter I was told he was sweet and super lazy, along with being shy. I thought hed be pretty good for Judgement. Two months later, I realized all he does is move and is full of energy, and constantly wants to eat and destroy everything in his path. He is still a sweetheart, just very out there.

The first month, I had them share my room. Judgement was free roam of my room prior to Oliver. Oliver is in the corner of the room that Judgement barely ever in. The first 2 weeks I had blankets and barriers so the two couldn’t see one another. I then decided to take some of the barriers away but it was constant Judgement nipping Oliver’s face. Oliver would run up to him and squish his face through the bars for Judgement. Nothing but nips and bite, which Oliver just took like a champ. Eventually I let them have full view at one another and the nipping died down. At one point,  Judgement nipped him so hard that he took some fur from his nose, no blood, just fur and a little scab. Judgement started to groom Oliver’s face through the bars at a certain point. Oliver would sit and love it. Judgement then started getting rough with the grooming. He’d do bites while grooming, but not little bites, I mean like bites that would make Oliver jump but then he would just squish his face back for more. Judgement also would start digging Oliver’s face while grooming, which I find odd. This behavior went on for about 3 weeks, but now rarely happens. Within the two months of me having Oliver, they haven’t made much progress, if anything its gotten worse. I’ve had bonding sessions, short and long. Bathtub, grandma’s house, friends house, bathroom, outside, downstairs, plastic bins and carriers. I’ve done large areas so they can roam around, and small areas. I’ve also done stress bonding of the washer (which is what I’m doing as I type this) and the car, which I’ve done at least 10 times now. No improvements. I’ve used the water bottle squirting technique to when they start getting aggressive, legit no luck. They act like they dont even get squirt, and it’s not a little mist, it’s a full big squirt of water. I’ve also tried the rattling of coins in a can when they get aggressive, they just ignore it. Oliver usually starts it by going up Judgements butt, then it starts to turn into a chase, which then turns into lunging, which then turns into either a full blown fight or massive biting attacks. I try my best to prevent any of that from happening but when they run away from me, I only have so much speed to stop it. It’s gotten so bad that once Oliver bit a while nail off of Judgement ( I left the room while my experienced rabbit friend watched them, as they were sitting on the floor away from one another, for at least an hour prior). Another  time it got bad was the first time trying the squirt bottle. When they got a little aggressive we’d squirt them, which we found out then, that it doesnt phase them, which then turned into a fight ( Oliver got a big bite on his ear). They’re just so aggressive I dont know what to do. I must also add I’ve done bunny magic, when you force them to sit next to each other and just pet them. They cant even do that anymore, they’ll just take turns trying to bite each other’s faces. Oliver also doesnt cooperate because he just sits up and wont lay down, while Judgement sees Oliver being taller, and gets nervous so he’ll try to attack. I’ve also tried treat bonding but it turns into attacks over the treats. Even during stress bonding in a carrier, they’ll try to fight. The only thing they seem to manage well with is fresh hay time through the bars, as they peacefully munch on their hay while looking at one another (I also do this for the morning and night pellets). I’ve also done the swapping litterboxes, toys, and bowls. I must note I even swapped their living sides, which usually just turns into massive poop and pee war. I also rearranged my room because I heard that helps, since it throws the bunnies off. It turned into them destroying my new white wood furniture with pee stains. Its exhausting to clean up all of their mess, when before they were always good about their habbits. This behavior started about 2 weeks ago and has just been getting worse, along with the aggression. They used to stop attacking through the bars for about a month, and now I wake up to them fighting at night. I also must add that I made a massive mess up last night by forgetting to lock Oliver’s x pen, so after about 5 minutes in bed I wake up to a fight because he just hopped right out onto Judgements side. I separated them and put up barriers for the night. Luckily they didnt get injured but I did, Judgement got me really good on my hand to the point where it’s all raw flesh now. (Yes I expected this, but that’s why I use gloves during their sessions). I’m just beyond stressed over how they arent bonding. Im only a college student living at home so having them separate and live separately isnt an option because I have to keep them in my room (besides play time out of my room). I also must note that I just spent over a thousand dollars on vet bills on them both, as they both needed dental surgery, and Oliver had a terrible ear infection (which angers me because the shelter didnt notice the ear or teeth issue). I’m devoted to keeping them both, and I really do want them to bond. Yes, I’m aware some take time but it’s crazy that they arent making much progress. I got Oliver for Judgement because Judgement being alone in my room while I’m at school or work makes me so sad, so having a buddy would make him feel better. Another note, Judgement has done well with another bunny in the past, hes had a few play dates with my friends bunny Milo.

I love them both so much! Any tips or ways that helped difficult bonds? When should I give up? (I really dont want to!).

 

Also I’m sorry if some of that info is a bit tossed around, I just was typing what came to my mind!

 

 

[DanaNM]

Hi there, welcome, sorry you are having a rough go of it!

So, there’s a lot to unpack here, but I am a bit concerned that in the beginning there was so much biting through the cage bars, and enough to draw blood. The “pre-bonding” phase is supposed to allow them to learn that the other rabbit is not a threat, and help them get used to that bunny. All that biting starts to build grudges and negative feelings towards each other.

It is absolutely essential that you modify their area so they cannot access each other through the bars. You can either set up a double wall with a 6 inch buffer, or get some small mesh fencing (1/4″ hardware cloth works great) to reinforce the fence and prevent nipping. NIC cube grids are very useful for making temporary bunny housing during the bonding process. I have noticed the number one enemy to bonding is when the owner feels rushed because of the housing situation, so getting that in order will ease a lot of the stress. Puppy pee pads are also super useful for these times when litter box habits are out the window.

You also mention that they had some health problems, so all bonding activity should stop until both buns are healthy.

Given all that’s gone on, I would take a full break. Set up their enclosures so they can’t see each other (or even smell if possible). No bonding sessions or prebonding for a few weeks to let everyone calm down and reset. Once everyone is healthy and things are a bit more calm, you can resume. Start with several weeks of pre-bonding (with NO biting through the fence), followed by some short bonding sessions. The poop and pee wars are normal for pre-bonding, and are actually a sign that you need to keep up with pre-bonding before moving on to normal sessions. It is very very important to prevent fighting. Since things escalate with them, intervene before you think you need to. Not to sound like a broken record, but you must prevent fighting.

When you resume sessions, work with them in a bonding space you can control them in. A x-pen is usually a good size to start with. Some buns do better in large spaces, but since you said they were getting away from you fighting I wouldn’t opt for a huge space at first. Set short time goals for dates, even as short at 2 or 3 minutes. Always end on a good note, and don’t be afraid to have your hands on them all the time in the beginning. My first bond was super hard, they would fight on sight. Building up from very short dates was what worked for me in that case.  That bond took about 3 months but they were madly in love at the end of it all. So don’t despair!

For now take a breather and let everyone calm down. Both bunnies are very cute!

PS. Obligatory PSA (because of the picture you included), cabbage can cause gas problems in some buns, so most people do not feed it at all, or only feed it in very small amounts. My local rescue had an epidemic of buns with stasis because a well meaning visitor was feeding the bunnies cabbage.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Ashley Rose]

Thank you sooo much for the reply, you gave me good advise! I was thinking the same thing, take a break and start over. Would you suggest blankets on his  X-pen so they cant see one another? My only issue is I feel so bad because then Oliver cant see anything but walls and blankets.

Also dont worry, their health is good right now and only took a few days to recover from their surgery! The vet also said it was okay to resume the bonding.

 

Also yes don’t worry I knew that about cabbage! That was actually the first time I’ve ever given any rabbit cabbage. They only tried it because it was at my grandma’s house. I let them eat some and then took it away because I knew it caused gas 😉

[DanaNM]

Glad their health is good. 🙂

Hmmm, can you describe the set up a bit more? Maybe you can just block part of the area that faces the other bunny’s area, but allow him to see the rest of the room?

Not sure if one is free roam, but it might be worth penning them both for the time being to make sure things are fair to each bunny (and will make it easier to clean up the poop/pee wars!).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Ashley Rose]

It’s hard because Oliver’s X-Pen is in in the corner of my room, reaching out into about half of my room. His area has a bookcase type thing inside his area. If I were to try to adjust it a bit, the best I could do is him looking at my bed, which he’s had accidents on. Judgement is free roam for the rest of my room (hes pretty good about my bed).

 

I’m currently downstairs with my two bunnies. The set up is Judgement has his usual area even though he really only lays down in one spot. Oliver has a section of it as well, with a wooden barrier from the computer and stairs area. They’re side by side with an old cage’s bars, basically it looks like a junky x-pen but it works! They’ve looked at one another plenty of times with no aggression. Oliver dipped his face to the floor and melted down when Judgement squished his face through the bars to Oliver, but sadly no grooms.

<hr />

 

[DanaNM]

Even though they seem to be doing OK, please do make sure they can’t access each other through the fence bars. Any nipping will set things back and I’ve seen some bad injuries to noses and lips from bites through the bars, that can happen in a flash.

If you can get a second x-pen you can create the space buffer I described to prevent the nipping. I also think things would be easier if you could have them both penned, side by side. Then you could do side swaps etc. once you resume pre-bonding. If you can’t do that, once you do pre-bonding you should swap who is on what side. The idea is for the bunnies to loose track of who’s territory is who’s.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Ashley Rose]

Thought I would give you a follow up! I decided to do a week (possibly longer) of 24/7 bonding.  It’s been a little longer than a day of them being in a neutral room in an X-pen together. I have a new big litterbox for the both of them to share along with a water bowl and pellets/veggies that get sprinkled on the floor rather than bowls. The first day there was some fighting and tension but day 2 is more relaxing. I didnt wake up to any fights last night and the only thing I woke up to is Oliver humping Judgement a bit. Currently they’re either distracted by the hay in the litterbox or they’re sitting away from one another but comfortable enough for flops. Oliver on occasion will run up to Judgement and nip his butt so Judgement usually just runs off. Not much progress but enough with no crazy violence!

[DanaNM]

That sounds like good progress!

In my experience when things improve after 24 hours marathoning you are on the right track. 🙂

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Author]

Messages