Help! Checking bun’s stitches…

[QueenThumper]

Thumper got spayed last Monday and the vet gave her metal stitches.  While they say buns tend not to mess with metal stitches too much, they also told me to check the stitches two times a day to make sure everything’s alright.

Picking up my bun is difficult enough, but now I have to do it two times a day and lay her on her back while I inspect her belly!  I’ve tried looking at them while she’s flopped over, but she only flops to the side and when I get close enough she tends to flop right-side up again.

She also seems to have a sixth sense about when I’m going to pick her up.  I’d prefer to pet her for awhile and then pick her up when she is feeling calmer, but she’s figured out when I’m going to pick her up before I even have and won’t stay in one place.  It’s become a bit of a following the leader game, where I just follow her around until she finally sits in one spot so i can pet her a little and pick her up.  She also tends to stop moving in all the places where it’s harder for me to reach for her.  Sometimes before I get a good grip, she’ll start kicking or dart off.  I worry about holding her too tightly or in the wrong places because she recently had surgery and I can feel those metal stitches every time she runs out from between my hands.  It really scares me that one day my nails are going to catch on the metal stitches and really hurt her!  I eventually get her in my arms, and once I hold her for a little while snugly she stops fighting – sometimes.  Other times she kicks and I let her run because of the fear.

I’ve tried getting her out of the cage, but there’s a lip on it that she could get caught on in addition to her possibly getting caught on the door of the cage while it’s opened up because she kicks so much.  For these reasons, I have stopped trying to take her out while she’s in the cage.

Should I not feel so bad about holding her a little tighter even if she’s just had surgery because it means she won’t be able to escape and hurt herself? She’s always been a kicker, scratcher, and even biter when being picked up – but does anyone have any tips or suggestions for how to make this easier on both of us? I’ll take just about anything at this point! 

 

[BinkyBunny]

Wow..metal stitches?!. I haven’t seen those used before. I am just so used to the ones that dissolve, and with , Jack’s surgery to get a bladder stone removed, there was just this incision with the stitches tucked in (couldn’t even see them) that would dissolve later. I am just curious, has anyone else ever had metal stitches? Am I out of touch with this method?

With that aside though, you might try covering her with a towel first and then scooping her up, but keep her eyes covered (and of course don’t keep her nose covered), and see if that will help keep her calm during the checking process.

[QueenThumper]

 Thanks, I’ll try it.  I hadn’t heard of metal stitches before either, I really should have asked beforehand what kind they were using.  I researched my vet on the web and it sounds she became a vet in 2005, so I’d assume her methods are up to date(?)  

[BinkyBunny]

Sorry, didn’t mean to make you worry about the stitches. It’s not like I even asked my vet what kind of stitches she was using. I just know she is rabbit savvy and I trusted her, and then after the surgery when she she showed me the incision, it was done so well – so seamless.

Just for my own education, I would like to know if this is something new used and if so why would the metal be less bothersome, or be less likely to be bothered by bunny teeth. I’ll check with my vet and we also have Katnip who is vet tech who might be able to help in understanding this.

[RabbitPam]

Hi,
The only stitches I’d heard of recently were the completely disolveable ones, but it’s nothing to worry about since the surgery is done and Thumper is doing well.

To get a quick look at the stitches, take a treat that Thumper LOVES, like a banana slice, lie down on the floor so you can see very low and hold up the banana so Thumper has to stand up to try to get it. Take a look. If you see anything that looks wrong, then try to pick him up (have the towel ready while he’s eating the banana.) If not, you’ve checked and he’s fine. You can also hold up a hand mirror in the other hand while he stands to see his belly in it more easily. When is your appt. for getting them removed?

[Sarita]

Are you sure they aren’t staples? The first vet I went to used those because he felt more comfortable using those rather than the dissovable stitches – he did try the dissovable ones later but went back to the staples.

With the staples you will have to go back in a few weeks to have them removed.

[KatnipCrzy]

It sounds like you might be describing stainless steel wire used as stitches.  It is a wire that is intended for surgery-  and if little tabs are left on the knot they are a pokey and a pet would be discouraged from licking that.  Stainless steel “wire” is nice in the fact that it is pretty nonreactive- pets don’t have a reaction to it as they can other suture.

I know that I have seen in exotic medical textbooks about using this as a deterrent to keep the pet from bothering the incision- so I see the reasoning behind it- I just don’t see it in actual “practice” too much.  I would not let the choice of stainless steel suture deter you- as long as you are happy with the care otherwise.  It is really just a different method of closing the incision- and the thought behind it was to prevent an possible issues.  I would probably prefer stainless steel wire to staples- staples tend to not stay as precise as when the surgeon places them and bunnies are so low to the ground they could get snagged easier. 

[QueenThumper]

She used stainless steel wire and left little tabs on the knot, as you have described Katnip. I am very happy with the care, the vet even called me the next day to ask how Thumper was doing.

I think the treat idea will work with thumper, RabbitPam, so I’ll try that. If it doesn’t work, I’ll try the towel trick. Thanks again! =)

[Sarita]

That’s very interesting Katnip! I knew about staples but did not know about these – so I do imagine these must be removed as well in a few weeks?

[KatnipCrzy]

Yep- they need to be removed in a couple of weeks just like regular sutures (10-14 days is standard).

I think stainless steel wire was used more in the past even on internal sutures- but as other sutures became more available its use has faded some.  Quite often on internal layers of sutures the suture line is continuous- a running stitch with a knot at each end- this is quicker than doing individual knot sutures (which I think you can only do with stainless steel wire).  So often the internal layers are continuous- and any external sutures are usually interrupted- individual stiches.  The reason being that in a continuous suture- if the pet bothers it the whole incision can come apart with one knot being loosened or ripped out- but individual stitches hold even if the one next to it is removed by the pet.  Internal layers are OK to be continuous because that should not be an issue as the pet rarely bothers the incision to that extent to get to the other layers of suture.

When Cotton was spayed my vet used surgical glue to close the incision- which is also common- it can give the incision a purple tinge as some glues are purple. 

Even the disolveable sutures do not always dissolve.  At the last clinic I worked at the vet had a pet rabbit that he kept for his son after it was brought in on Emergency and the owners could not afford treatment after their small dog grabbed one of the bunnies front legs and did some severe damage to it.  The owners gave him the bunny and he amputated its front leg and gave it to his son.  About 1-2 years later when I was working there the bunny was getting quite aggressive and he decided to neuter the bunny.  When the bunny was under anesthesia he was looking at the shoulder closely- and he found about 10 sutures that had never dissolved in all that time.  It does not cause any harm and was not noticeable since the fur grew back- but we removed them anyway.  And they found out that the bunny was not a HE, but a she and she was then spayed.  (This was before I had house bunnies and that was the one time I saw the bunny).  It was a little Netherland dwarf and did fine with only one front leg.

[BinkyBunny]

Very interesting Katnip! Thanks so much for the info! 

And great idea on how to check the sutures Rabbitpam 

Keep us updated on your bunny’s recovery Queen Thumper. Sending healing vibes

[QueenThumper]

The treat trick worked!  It took a couple tries to get her to stand up and go for a cherry, but she eventually did it and I got a really good look at the stitches.  I will do this from now on, and I’m sure Thumper will appreciate having a nice piece of fruit to munch on!

Thumper is doing well, no problems with the stitches and she has been back to her normal, active self for awhile.  I just worry sometimes that she’s too active!  I was told not to let her jump around, but one of her favorite things to do is be in high places so she jumps up on the couch a lot.  She’s been doing great though, so I’m not too worried about it.

[BinkyBunny]

Yeah! That great! I know my vet said to keep bunnies less active for a week to prevent any tearing or ripping at the suture area.  Sounds like she’s healing fine and it’s been longer than a week.  How long did your vet say to keep her from jumping?

[QueenThumper]

 Didn’t specify.  It doesn’t look to me like the skin is healing back together in the area where the incision was made, but maybe I’m just being paranoid because it’s my first time doing this.  If it were tearing or ripping, it would be where the metal sutures are and not at the incision area, right?

[RabbitPam]

Glad the trick helped. I cannot take full credit, since when Sammy got spayed this year another FL suggested it to me.

I think if there’s a problem, there would be redness, a stitch missing or dangling, swelling, another discoloration or moisture. If it looks good, just give it time. I’d go another week of no jumping just to be safe.

[KatnipCrzy]

You are only seeing a very small part of what the surgery entailed.  There are other layers of tissue that the vet had to cut thru to get to the uterus to remove it.  So there are internal sutures on the abdominal wall, subcutaneous layer and then the top layer of sutures that you see.  The restricted activity is to prevent a lot of stress and strain on those sutures so they heal well before there is a lot of tension put on them.

  It is similiar to a person having an abdominal surgery or a C-section- they usually have lifting restrictions and physical restrictions for awhile to keep from putting excess strain on the sutures.

  So the typical rule is that when the outside sutures are ready to be removed as the skin is obviously healed- then all the internal layers will be healed well enough to return to normal activity.

  So at the beginning of the healing period if you restrict any jumping and crazy running that you can- that will only help with the healing.  And usually by the times sutures are ready to come out the pet is back to normal activity and that is fine.

[QueenThumper]

Thumper got her stitches out yesterday and everything looks good! =)

[KatnipCrzy]

Good news!  Glad to hear that Thumper is fully recovered!

[RabbitPam]

Excellent!!!!

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