Help! Bonded Trio Suddenly Fighting.

[T-Bun]

Hi, last month I adopted 3 adult rabbits (one 7 yr old male – Vinnie,  a 5 yr old female – Immi, , and a 2 yr old female – Cookie)  who lost their home from the local shelter.   They went right from their previous home to the shelter for a med-check and adoption process then to me in the same day.  They’re a bonded trio who had been living together for years previous to my adopting them.   For the the first month, everything was fine.  They groomed each other snuggled together, and generally got along famously.   They would play together and jump around, with occasional humping behavior, but nothing really aggressive.

Over the last two week, it’s all gone wrong!   Mostly it seems to be Immi and Cookie who get into it with each other…real fighting…lunging nipping, clawing, tearing fur… it really is quite frightening.  Sometimes it’s Vinnie and Cookie as well, and even Vinnie and Immi…but mostly its seems to be either Vinnie or Immi going up against Cookie.   Tonight it got so bad I decided to put Cookie in the Bunny Condo to seperate her from the other two.   (The Bunny Condo is in the same room).

They share their own room and have had the run of it since I brought them home.  It breaks my heart to put Cookie in the Condo (it’s really not very big for and adult rabbit), but I’m really worried about her safety (and the safety of the others).  I’m not sure what I could have done wrong…it just seems to have exploded out of nowhere over the last 10 – 14 days.  I know the move might have been rough on them, but they’ve been perfectly fine up until now.  I hate the thought of having to give one of them up, but I don’t have another spare room to dedicate to one of them.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

 

[tanlover14]

Is there any way you can separate the three — so you can separately have bonding sessions with them and try and figure out the anxiety between the buns that way?

[T-Bun]

Well, I’ve got Cookie in the Condo now, but it’s in the same room.  (I hate locking her up in there!).  Should I move it to another room?  There isn’t another room that’s “bunny proof”, so she’d have to spend most if not all of her time in the cage.  I hate the thought of doing that.

[T-Bun]

UPDATE: Ok, so it’s the next morning, and late last night I thought I’d let Cookie out of the Condo and sleep in their room to keep the peace, but nothing doing. She and her sister Immi really started going at it. So this time Immi “volunteered” herself into the Condo and I decided to keep her in there for the night. My bedroom is next to their’s and I didn’t hear any further disturbances in the night. I went in this morning and Cookie and Vinnie (still free in the room) were laying near each other with no problems, but Vinnie started chasing Cookie when I came in. This might be because they were circling me for breakfast, but I’m not sure. Vinnie definitely seems to enjoy showing dominance over the food, at least when it comes to pellets.  Anyway, it wasn’t as bad as when Cookie and Immi get into, so I’m not sure if it was “play” behavior or something more aggressive, or just “Hey, there’s food, me first!”.  Strange since they were peacefully lying near each other when I came in, but again, maybe the excitement of food got them going, I don’t know. Heck, maybe they don’t like ME being in there (btw, is that possible?  I only hear the occasional ruckus when I’m not in the room, but when I’m in there it doesn’t seem to stop).

If push comes to shove, I’ll have to set up an area in another room for the outsider of the bunch, which definitely seems to be Cookie (the youngest).   When I think back , Vinnie and Immi really don’t seem to have any problems, except when Vinnie “joins in” to the ruckus when the other two are fighting.  I don’t think I could handle having to give her up, so I’m looking for suggestions on x-pens that are big enough for a single adult rabbit and a Bunny Abode (that’s what I call the  “Condo”) from Leith.   The bigger the better, I guess. My plan would be to set up the x-pen with the Bunny Abode inside of it and let her have the run of that area in the other room, with the Abode available for general shelter and actual containment if necessay.  It would take a while to get this set up though.  Of course, my overall intention is to re-bond all three and get them back into their own room free of any cage, but I’m thinking this is what I might have to do.

I just need to get back to this! (L to R: Immi, Vinnie, and Cookie)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LittlePuffyTail]

That’s sad that they are not getting along, they look so adorable all together.

I’m by no means an expert on bonding, but stress bonding can often help with aggression. You could try taking them for a car ride or using a basket on the washing machine method, then immediately after stressing, separate Cookie so they don’t take out any stress on her afterwards. I recommend doing some research on different methods of stress bonding first.

You might also want to try separate bonding sessions between Cookie and your other buns, one at a time. You could even try stressing bonding, two at a time.

[tanlover14]

I have to agree with LPT, stress bonding will probably be your best bet. I have a bonded trio but have had no problems. Do you know how long they were bonded before coming to you? I wonder if maybe they were never fully bonded and now that they are use to their area some aggression is coming out? I would do stress bonding and possibly even start bonding them from the beginning again. It’s a tedious process but it may be able to restrengthen their bond. I would definitely try stress bonding the two who seem to be getting into it the most often though.

[Sarita]

Wonder if someone is ill? Did they all get vet checkups before they came to you?

[T-Bun]

Thanks for the tips so far.

My undesrstanding from the previous owner is that they all lived together for at least 2 years (Cookie being the youngest) as a bonded trio prior to this.  The previous owner gave no indication of any problems.  Immi and Vinnie are definitely the closest of the three, although Cookie seems to accept Vinnie’s dominance as well (grooming, etc). They were checked by a vet the day I adopted them.  As luck would have it I’m having them see my own vet on Tuesday.  I’m also waiting to hear back from the adoption counselor.   The shelter has a rabbit expert on staff that I’m going to talk to as well.

I’ll have to see about stress bonding them.  One of the problems I have with them in general is that they will not let me pick them up, so it’s always hard to corral them for any reason.  I’m hesitant to put them in the same carrier for a car ride (they can’t get near each other at this point), can I do two carriers with the ends facing so their in contact, or do they need to be in the same carrier? 

As of right now Cookie is in the cage, and Immi and Vinnie have free reign of the room.   After a morning of more scuffles, Cookie jumped in the cage and so that’s why she’s in there now.  I suppose maybe I’ll trying switching them off as far as who’s in the cage goes.  I’m observing them at this point to see what happens when Immi approaches the cage and they get nose to nose.  So far I’ve seen them nip at each other through the wire once.  I’m going to make a trip to the pet store this afternoon to see what’s availalbe in x-pens locally.  Hopefully they have something at least 3 feet tall and with room enough that I can get Cookie out of the room quickly, but I might have to go the mail-order route. 

Thanks again!

 

 

[tanlover14]

Try the bathtub if you’re nervous about them being in the same carrier — bigger and you can separate with something in between if it gets out of hand.

I agree with Sarita — I thought about it but didn’t post that one of them could be ill and causing the fights. I would speak to your vet about what has been going on so he knows and maybe if one of them IS ill can help you. He may do a more thorough exam if he knows there is a problem.

[T-Bun]

This is the setup I’ve got going for now. Keep in mind that this is room is/was neutral territory for them a month ago. I’m hesitant to move Cookie out completely lest the room become the “property” of Vinnie and Immi.  We’ll see how it goes.  She certainly doesn’t like the pen enclsoure, and is really going at it as I type this.  So it might be back to the cage for bedtime. 

 

 

[jerseygirl]

btw, is that possible? I only hear the occasional ruckus when I’m not in the room, but when I’m in there it doesn’t seem to stop

I was wondering this as I was reading your accounts. I think it is possible but wouldn’t expect it to be all that common. But a change in us might be enough of a stressor to trigger some dominance scuffles between them.
So it wouldn’t hurt to review any changes with you in last 2 weeks. Even a house guest or trades person that came to the house. Another pet in household or visiting. Any animals outside approaching near room that bunnies are in.

All that aside, it may be there is already tension between them and when you enter it just heightens situation as there is normal excitement for food.

I would definitely have the health checks done first then come back to figuring out what’s bugging them if not health related.

Hopefully you won’t have to separate them permanently. I think one if the past forum leaders had a pair that would fight about once a year. Then after some weeks they’d go back to normal. Around the time rabbits are shedding they can be temperamental.

[jerseygirl]

Another thought…

You could also test if its related to food time. Maybe one is being a piggy?

Would the shelter still be able to contact previous owner? They might be able to shed some light on what’s going on.

[T-Bun]

Hi all (again). I’ve still got them separated at this point (a slightly different arrangement than the one in the pic above). The room is split in half by the x-pens now. My local house bun expert recommended keeping the in the same room so that they don’t “miss” each other. She also said (and I have seen) that they will sometimes lay down together on opposite sides of the DMZ to be close to each other, even though they don’t really get along anymore She also recommended a double barrier such that they can bite each other through a single x-pen fence. According to her, they can still do damage to each others’ faces that way. For now this is the arrangement until I can attempt re-bonding.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Are they separated all 1 per x-pen or is just Cookie separated?

[T-Bun]

Just Cookie, she has one half of the room, and Vinnie and Immi have the other half.   Sometimes Vinni and Immi visit Cookie’s side . If Cookie happens to be hanging out in her condo, I’ll close the condo door and let them come over.   Sometimes Cookie is out too, and Immi and Cookie will go after each other immediately, so that doesn’t last long.  It’s sad, because the arrangement also seems to be breaking the bond between Cookie and Vinnie too, although they’re not nearly as violent about it.   I’m toying with the idea of switching sides for brief periods to a) give them new space to explore, and b) try to get them used to sharing territory (albeit not at the same time), but that’s tricky.  These buns are new to me, and pretty much won’t let me pick them up, so it’s a process of creative herding to get them to go where I want them to.   That’s also the issue I’m having with trying to get them into a neutral territory where I can at least try to re-bond them.   I’m doing this all solo, and may have bitten off more than I can chew, but I’m determined to keep all of them.  This has all resulted in a lot of extra work and stress, which I don’t mind.  I just want them to be happy and healthy.  The whole thing is strange, they were thick as thieves for the first month, and were billed as a bonded trio, but there it is.

[LittlePuffyTail]

It’s so wonderful how dedicated you are. I know how much work having 3 unbonded bunnies is. And also, the stress and time of bonding can be overwhelming. You are such a wonderful bunny parent.

I think, if you can pull it off, switching sides would be a good idea.

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