Hay -vs- Grass

[Bunnisox]

Hey guys, I found some really interesting information about hay on one of my rabbit groups today and was wondering what you thought about it. I thought I would share it with you all here, and see what the consensus was on their information. They were essentially saying that hay shouldn’t be the primary food for rabbits – which, originally when I seen that statement, I had a mind to go in and respond to them indicating that they were insane, lol. But after I read what they had posted… I became intrigued and wanted to bring it to Binky Bunny forum people, as most of you guys are so very knowledgeable when it comes to buns.

I’ve included their post here for you:

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“I know that we are all keeping domesticated rabbits, but their digestive system is still the same as the ones wild rabbits have. Rabbits are folivore, their wild relatives in nature feed primarily on green parts of plants, buds and leaf tips. In addition, they also take up roots and barks. Our domestic rabbits are still dependent on this diet due to their short domestication history. That’s why a healthy diet should be a natural diet. Inspired by what they eat in nature. It’s an myth that still seems to be keeping on that hay should be their main diet.

Hay is NOT the same like grass/herbs. It’s dried. In the drying process the grass/herbs loose most of its consistency such as Vitamins. Grass contains on average 200mg of β-carotene and 200mg of vitamin E. Edelweiss (a common plant here) contains on average 250 mg of β-carotene and 75 mg of vitamin E. Hay contains an average of 20mg of β-carotene and 30mg of Vitamin E.

Green fodder must be available to the rabbits continuously, because rabbits repeatedly take up small amounts to evenly load their digestive tract. If too little green fodder is fed so that it does not last until the next feeding, it can lead to indigestion. As a result of a predominantly dry diet less water is absorbed, the rabbits do not fully regulate the lack of water by drinking, so rabbits that are mainly fed on fresh feed take up most of the water. Due to the low liquid content in the food (and thus a lack of water in the body) it comes to a minerals highly concentrated urine, these minerals settle. A low water content thus supports deposits in the kidneys and the bladder (bladder stones, kidney stones, calcifications, urine, etc).

And the teeth : The molars grind each other off while chewing and not – as often wrongly assumed – on the “hard” food (unless the food is harder than the teeth). The longer the animals are occupied with the feed intake (biting, chewing, grinding), the cheaper it is also for the tooth wear (teeth only use each other, and not on the food). Accordingly, it is up to the holder to provide optimal tooth abrasion by offering suitable lining that provides plenty of chewing activity. Here’s how long a bun chews for 1 gramm of… Hay: 4.72-12.2 minutes Grass: 6.84 minutes Hay pellets / scobs: 2.30 minutes Compound feed (muesli): 1.40 minutes In addition to the pure grinding of the teeth, another point is important for the molar tooth abrasion: the silicate, also called silicon or silica. Biogenic silicates are present in all plants, e.g. Meadow herbs, grasses, vegetables, fruits, seeds and barks contain, in addition, the rabbit takes a lot of silicate by dirt particles from the food (silicates of sand, dust, soil, soil …). Silicon consists of a crystalline structure, which leads to an emery effect on the tooth surface during chewing, comparable to sandpaper. Hay contains 640mg / kg of silicate Fresh grass/herbs contain 1820mg / kg if silicate The drying of meadow plants to hay, and the associated structural change, a large part of the silicate is lost.

That’s why fresh grass/herbs are soooo much more important than most people think. Actually I think people should know that, but many don’t. I know that herbs are quite expensive if you don’t have access to your own big garden or a field nearby. But people should inform themselves about that BEFORE they get a rabbit. And every bunny deserves their natural food in my opinion.”

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Thoughts…?

[Harley&Thumper]

Although the person makes a reasonable argument I feel that they fail to take in account the energy requirements of a wild rabbit versus a domesticated one. A wild rabbit expends more energy foraging for food compared to a domestic rabbit and also needs to consume energy running and hiding from predators. The teeth grinding bit sounds reasonable. Is this person talking about people who feed their rabbits only hay?

[Harley&Thumper]

There are no known side effects from excessive Vitamin E in humans. It’s entirely possible a domestic rabbit receives an appropriate amount of Vitamin E and wild rabbits are receiving too much. The poster also doesn’t mention how much hay is needed to get that 30 mg of Vitamin E which is almost double the daily amount a human needs.

[Dasher]

This is pretty interesting. I would like hear what others have to say. I usually let my bunny outside to eat grass because she loves it and its natural but I always thought hay was better for the teeth.

[Deleted User]

I think that this person is seriously overanalyzing it lol… Although I do get high quality hay, I can understand how feeding completely dead grass is detrimental. My hay is always green, fresh, and fragrant.

Harley&Thumper, very good point about the energy requirements! Our buns spend a lot of time sleeping and the only bun predator (perceived) in my apartment is the vacuum lol.

Bunnisox, I really wouldn’t take this too much to heart (in my opinion) because many owners also supplement their rabbit’s diet with pellets or fresh veggies. So, even if your hay is low quality, your rabbit can still get nutrients from other sources. Hay is mostly fiber anyway… and as far as I know, fiber doesn’t denature during the drying process. Yes, proteins and vitamins can be denatured, but usually that is due to a chemical process (like heat- think of cooking broccoli until it is a soggy log…that denatures most of the minerals in it). But hay just goes through a drying process, so I don’t see how it could really be affected that drastically.

[sarahthegemini]

I think grass is better than hay, sure but you can’t realistically provide grass 24/7 for indoor rabbits.

[AryaAndTheo]

Hello ?

Just found this. It’s my post actually I was commenting it in a Facebook group. Thank you for thinking about it so much

Of course it depends on the energy, I am aware of that. But I will always assume that everyone is trying to give their buns the best workout by providing a lot of space.
I got this information from my university books and some from different pages. But I can definitely look up their daily amount of calories, vitamins etc. If anybun of you is still interested

I am aware of the fact that my post was very analyzing and a bit picky. But sometimes I get a bit frustrated when I see that people are only feeding hay and Pellets. Because if fresh food os missing it is definitely not a healthy, natural bunny diet.

My buns also have unlimited access to hay, but also unlimited access to fresh food. I let them pick what they want.

But I see that my Comment actually did what I wanted it to do – make people think about it.

I am sorry for my English though, here and in the Comment. I am not a native speaker.

Greetings ?

[AryaAndTheo]

Hello everyone. You are talking about my Comment here. I was posting it in a Facebook Group some days ago.

Yes I am Aware of the fact, that every bun Needs  different amount of Energy daily. BUT I do assume that every bunny owner wants to provide a lot of activity for their buns and therefore, enough spce for them to run around.

That comment is a summary of Information that I have found in my University books + a german Webpage.

Next time I will include the average amount of Energy and the mentioned vitamins. (for example a bun with 2,5kg would Need about 0,98MJ/DE daily)

0,98MJ/DE would be included in..127g Pellets OR 257g Hay OR 628g Dandalion OR 1138g Grass

When it Comes to vitamins, it get’s a bit tricky, as there are many different opinions. But usually the data is about 580 IE/kg.

Anyway, the reason I was writing this comment was to make the Person who posted something there think about it. I usually comment something like that when someone is only feeding hay+pellets. As this is simply not a healthy, ntural diet. I know the comment is  bit overanlyzed and picky, but I wanted it that way because I discovered, that otherwhise nobody is even paying Attention to it. And as I see here, it actually made someone think about it.

I am sorry for my english, here, and in the comment. I am not a native Speaker.

Greetings

[Deleted User]

Hmm. Maybe this was taken out of context a bit. I thought you were saying hay=no altogether, that you should only ever feed fresh grass. That just isn’t realistic, especially for city dwellers who have to worry about chemical sprays used in landscaping.

I totally agree with you that rabbits need a balanced diet that is similar to what they would eat naturally. No doubt that they would come across a lot more than just grass in the wild. And most people do think that all they need is hay and pellets (or even WORSE they think that they only need pellets…) which is not true at all to any of us.

I feed unlimited hay, 1 TBSP pellets 2x day, and 1.5 cups of fresh veggies 2x day. Ophelia also gets lots of forage in the form of fresh herbs (that I grow myself) and various dried flowers/herbs that I purchase.

I hope you weren’t offended. I think that without the context, your message came off as saying that rabbit owners should only be feeding fresh grass, which is unrealistic. But I do agree that we should try to make their diet mimic a natural diet as much as possible.

[Author]

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