Having trouble bonding 2 males

[Walder]

I dont know what to do anymore, tried for more then 5 months, and i still cant get my 2 males to get along, so here is the all story:

 

Amendoim (Peanut) its the oldest one and the 2nd bunny i had, he’s more then 3 y old and had in 2 separate occasions 2 mates, there was my 1st bunny Caramelo (Caramel) and my 3rd Bunny Avelã (Hazzelnut) and Amendoim got along just fine with both of them (ofc i had to do the usual bonding training, with allot of effor and time).

So resuming:

 

Caramel + Peanut

 

then Peanut + Hazzelnut

 

Now i cant get him and Coffee to get along

 

Coffee is more then 1 y old, and it seems hes afraid of Peanut, and he gets really tense when Peanut is nearby (he lift hes tail and moves his years backwards), so this running away makes Peanut really paranoid since sometimes Coffee approaches, bites, then runs away, sometimes hitting with his feet.

 

So ive tried the bathtub, the car, the punishments (timeout), the sprinkler (dont remember the english name for that sprayer with water ), the claping etc etc etc…so im out of ideas…

They both have cages near each other in the kitchen, Peanut as full home freedom but he really craves for companionship, he stays for hours next to Coffee’s cage just to feel company since hes more of a Bunnny-to-Bunny rabbit and not a Bunny-to-Human… so this is what made me try till this day. Coffee gets along better with me then any1 else, so he likes to be petted and hes a great Bunny-To-Human rabbit.

 

Any ideas? Should i put their cages appart from each other ? I dont really know if i havent tried everything yet.

 

[ScooterandAnnette]

Sometimes you just can’t bond some rabbits. And sometimes it can just take a long time. With some of ours the bonding has gone quite smoothly, when we tried to bond the twins with the 4 that we had – hoping for one big bunny family – it didn’t work at all. When bonding the twins with Carbun at first it looked like it was going to be pretty smooth and then they decided that no they didn’t really like each other. It’s taken over a year and a half to get them bonded enough that they’re in the same cage now.

Are your males neutered?  I could be wrong but I think it’s more difficult to bond 2 males if they’re not.
– Annette

[Walder]

Yes, i’ve only had males, so they are all neutered…the previous pairs i had werent easy, but this time is getting to seem impossible.

[Deleted User]

you might like to try some forced snuggle/scent transfer sessions where the two rabbits are placed inside a small box just big enough to fit them. Make it cozy with hay in there. Then just set the box on your lap and stroke them for twenty minutes. In the beginning they will be stressed and even try to nip/bite but many times i have found the rabbits overcome the initial antipathy with many of these box sessions. You have to keep control over their heads: don’t let them nip at all. You can even bounce your knee up and down to add a little motion stress, or you can carry them around to distract them. If you get them to sit peacefully in this box you may have a new starting point and can increase to a bigger size of box. It will take many repeat sessions, though.

[Walder]

Thanks havent tried that yet, at this point ive tried almost anything and i will try anything. Something in my mind says they cant be bonded, but i have experience 2x, so im still hoping for something. Ill try to get a box tomorrow.

[jerseygirl]

I agree, I think the more positive interactions may help. Less of the stressors at this point. If Coffee is fearful/defensive, stressing him will just increase this for now. Take advantage of his human-rabbit bond and use what he enjoys and makes him calm. Including Peanut should satisfy Peanut some if rabbit companionship is what he’s craving. Take note if Coffee reacts to your interaction with Peanut though and whether this effects his behaviour. He may be territorial about you!
If their interaction so far has been very negative, it might be an idea to take a short break then resume with this approach.

You could do a simple thing like only feed treats, even all their food when they both in sight of one another (barrier between them). Hopefully they’ll begin to associate this positive activity with being within close range of one another. 
 

Something in my mind says they cant be bonded, but i have experience 2x, so im still hoping for something. Ill try to get a box tomorrow.

Change that mindset otherwise they’ll know!

Good luck! By the way, Coffee is the tan rabbit? I dont recall what type of rabbit Peanut is. Just curious.

[Walder]

Coffee

 

Peanut saying grace

 

 

[Walder]

Posted By jerseygirl on 12/26/2010 06:21 PM

 this approach.

You could do a simple thing like only feed treats, even all their food when they both in sight of one another (barrier between them). Hopefully they’ll begin to associate this positive activity with being within close range of one another. 
 

Something in my mind says they cant be bonded, but i have experience 2x, so im still hoping for something. Ill try to get a box tomorrow.

Change that mindset otherwise they’ll know!

Good luck! By the way, Coffee is the tan rabbit? I dont recall what type of rabbit Peanut is. Just curious.

 

Tried that already but thanks

[FluffyBunny]

Try smearing banana (or another gooey fruit, such as fresh raisins) on both bunnies’ heads. If the bunnies can approach each other without any biting, they’ll probably try licking off the banana, and most bunnies mistake that for grooming. My bunnies were bonded a week after I tried that method for the first time.

You might also want to try holding one rabbit while the other rabbit sniffs him. This made my (formerly) territorial male get used to the scent and sight of my female.

[Walder]

Posted By FluffyBunny on 12/27/2010 04:40 PM
Try smearing banana (or another gooey fruit, such as fresh raisins) on both bunnies’ heads. If the bunnies can approach each other without any biting, they’ll probably try licking off the banana, and most bunnies mistake that for grooming. My bunnies were bonded a week after I tried that method for the first time.

You might also want to try holding one rabbit while the other rabbit sniffs him. This made my (formerly) territorial male get used to the scent and sight of my female.

 

Tried both also, but thanks.

 

The box thing isnt going so well, there was alo tof chaisng and there is a lot of feet thumping, even though i can hear 1 of them trying to eat some hay, but as soon as the other approaches (i can only tell by sound) the other tries to get away even though the box is small, ive been in this only for  8 hours (7 were yesterday).

 

Ill update later.

[jerseygirl]

Are you shutting them inside a box? Using a box is more like a tray with high sides. You must be able to see them and be able reach them at all times.
This method is very hands on. It may just be 1/2 – 1 hour of petting them in this box while they are side by side.

Thanks for adding the pictures. They are just beautiful rabbits!

[Walder]

 

Im using one from ikea similar to these, but much bigger and much taller, they have a lid.

[Beka27]

Even if you’ve already tried something, keep doing it at various stages of the bonding process.

[Walder]

my back is aching from so much petting lol,as i expected (and it had previously happened) Peanut is all relaxed, lying down, eating, he even started to lick Coffee.

On the other hand as soon as Peanut moves an inch, Coffee starts twitching and he gets hes neck real stiff like having a seizure or something, he’s always so tense and here is the problem, Coffee nervousness .

[ScooterandAnnette]

What eventually did the trick for us with Carbun and the Twins was giving Carbun something familar of his own in their condo. We’d had them running around loose together and they were okay, but housing together was not going well. Kylie would get a little aggressive, and Carbun is high strung and would freak out and run any time one of the twins even looked at him. We’d been putting them in together for a little bit at a time, and then one day I decided to put his sleeping box in there. Then when he felt scared he could run to his box and feel a little safer, and that seemed to be the extra thing that was needed.
– Annette

[Deleted User]

The box has to be small so they have to sit beside one another and you can’t take your hands (wear gloves) off in the beginning. They have to LEARN to sit together still. It doesn’t just happen by itself.

[Walder]

Posted By Petzy on 12/28/2010 04:40 PM
The box has to be small so they have to sit beside one another and you can’t take your hands (wear gloves) off in the beginning. They have to LEARN to sit together still. It doesn’t just happen by itself.

 

its small enough, they cant get apart from each other more then 5 cm, they actually kinda slept, but not because they were friendly, but because Coffee was 2 tired, after he was rested he went “normally scaried about everything” as usual.

 

I had to stop when peanut started to get nervous because he was tired of being in that box, and when he gets nervous he starts to move to much, wich doesnt help Coffee’s “twitching”.

 

Posted By ScooterandAnnette on 12/28/2010 12:27 PM
What eventually did the trick for us with Carbun and the Twins was giving Carbun something familar of his own in their condo. We’d had them running around loose together and they were okay, but housing together was not going well. Kylie would get a little aggressive, and Carbun is high strung and would freak out and run any time one of the twins even looked at him. We’d been putting them in together for a little bit at a time, and then one day I decided to put his sleeping box in there. Then when he felt scared he could run to his box and feel a little safer, and that seemed to be the extra thing that was needed.
– Annette

But they cant even run loose together, unless they dont see each other, if they do, one runs away, one chases because he wants some bunny friendship, and when he gets frustrated he feels like biting. They dont have sleeping boxes, they just go to their respective Cage and sleep they have blankets but its just covering the cages on top.

[FluffyBunny]

It sounds like one of your big problems is the bunnies getting too scared. Have you tried doing sessions when both bunnies are really tired? (A session in the mid-afternoon should do the trick.) It sounds like they better when Coffee was tired.

[jerseygirl]

its small enough, they cant get apart from each other more then 5 cm, they actually kinda slept, but not because they were friendly, but because Coffee was 2 tired, after he was rested he went “normally scaried about everything” as usual.

That is good. I know it seems like not much but it will take time for Coffee to calm and begin to trust. More of these type session should help in that. It doesn’t have to be overly long sessions, just do them frequently. At least 1 a day if not more. It will seem tedious but it’s critical he begins to build that trust. You should start to see a subtle shift in their interaction with one another.

[Walder]

Update – still nothing new

[Deleted User]

Have you tried imitating head grooms on them using a brush or a damp cloth? This can calm stressed bunnies during bonding. It can also start them out in trusting that nothing bad will happen and over time they may give grooms as a natural response.

It also worked with two of mine who were prone to fighting

[KatnipCrzy]

This is probably not the best method- but I have 3 bunnies and I am not sure if my female will ever accept another rabbit. So I decided to bond the 2 neutered males. I had them in a divided pen with an additional panel so they could not bite thru the panel (bite each other)- then I was able to remove that.
I did the bonding sessions- Griff would hump Schroeder and let out a horrible musky smell. I hurt my back and could not bend over- so I stopped trying to bond- but left them in their pens. Griff soon began to spend hours trying to get Schroeder to groom his head thru the bars. So we decided to try it again- and we let them together and they are best buds now. This is not typical- but they were penned next to each other for at least 6 months- as Griff showed that he WANTED interaction with Schroeder. And Schroeder is not an aggressive rabbit (unlike Cotton)- so it worked in their case. They had to get used to each other- so they developed affection eventually.

[lashkay]

Petzy, what sort of brush is that in your video? It looks like a human boar-bristle? I’m still searching for the “ideal” brush. Thanks for posting that video!

[Walder]

Posted By Petzy on 01/01/2011 07:09 PM

Have you tried imitating head grooms on them using a brush or a damp cloth? This can calm stressed bunnies during bonding. It can also start them out in trusting that nothing bad will happen and over time they may give grooms as a natural response.

It also worked with two of mine who were prone to fighting

 

Problem is they dont fight, one is just 2 scared and the other one grooms and wants to be groomed. I have tried that, but ill try something new, since i have 2 brushes ill try double brushing or something.

 

Posted By KatnipCrzy on 01/01/2011 08:53 PM
This is probably not the best method- but I have 3 bunnies and I am not sure if my female will ever accept another rabbit. So I decided to bond the 2 neutered males. I had them in a divided pen with an additional panel so they could not bite thru the panel (bite each other)- then I was able to remove that.
I did the bonding sessions- Griff would hump Schroeder and let out a horrible musky smell. I hurt my back and could not bend over- so I stopped trying to bond- but left them in their pens. Griff soon began to spend hours trying to get Schroeder to groom his head thru the bars. So we decided to try it again- and we let them together and they are best buds now. This is not typical- but they were penned next to each other for at least 6 months- as Griff showed that he WANTED interaction with Schroeder. And Schroeder is not an aggressive rabbit (unlike Cotton)- so it worked in their case. They had to get used to each other- so they developed affection eventually.

They dont try to mount each other, and coffee as no reason to be so affraid, and ive tried that in the beggining for a couple of months.

 

but i keep trying

[Deleted User]

The imitated grooming works for many scenarios, not just for fighting; I used it extensively with my white mini rex who also suffered from paralyzing fear during some sessions. The thing though is it will take more sessions, not just one or two, you really have to keep at it to see results. What you are looking for is to get yours relaxed so they will start to explore one another; being groomed leads to the release of neurotransmitters that initiate relaxation.

[Walder]

Y i know, even though it has been months with sessions, i know i wont see results if i give up.

[Deleted User]

that’s tough.
–I meant you’ve got to give each technique a little time to show results. So if you try something new, it may take a little before it works. You already knew that, but I know when I am bonding I can get impatient.

[Wembley]

Hey there, Walder

I have had a few bunnies over the years since my first one in April, 1999.  I have successfully bonded all of them together as each new one arrived.  I discovered a neat process, purely by accident of course, that has never failed.  The only real RULE is that all participants – well at least the rabbits – MUST be spayed or neutered.   Bonding issues aside, a spayed/neutered animal has a better chance at a calm happy healthy life.

I have this fence system – 8 panels, each 30 inches wide, hinged together and 30 inches high.  The fence can be made into a circle, square, rectangle – any which way.    My rabbits are free-range, no cages.  The process I use takes 14 solid days.  I have a large rabbit cage I call the “nursery”.  When a newbie arrives, it goes into the nursery.  The other rabbits in the house can come up to the nursery and nose around.  At first there is ear flattening and attempted nips through the wire walls.  But nobody can get hurt.  Newbie stays in the nursery until after the spay/neuter operation which is arranged immediately or as soon as safely possible, given the age.

Starting with Day 1 (after spay/neuter recovery), the fencing is set up – at my house in the space between the living and dining rooms – in roughly a circle.  Newbie is put inside.  After the confines of the nursery, newbie is quite excited to have much more freedom.  Other rabbit residents of the house are free to come up and sniff around, check things out, and both newbie and residents try and bite each other through the wire.  Nobunny gets hurt.  Inside fencing is everything newbie needs – hay, water, kibble, litter box.

Day 2 – pick up newbie and open up fencing.  Go down to office (where litter boxes, hay, food, water, toys etc for the other guys is), shoo anybunny in there OUT, put up baby gate and place newbie in the office to sniff around all the marked scents there while the house residents roam around inside the fencing checking out newbie’s domain.   I do this two or three times a day.  Everybunny gets to smell and mark to their hearts content.

Day 3 to 14.  Repeat Day 2.  You will notice as each day passes less and less aggresiveness on both sides of the fence, more relaxed rabbits lying so close together (on opposite sides of the fence) that their fur touches through the wire.  I would hand out treats to newbie and the others together around the fencing. 

By Day 14, I have had enough of the extra work of sweeping up raisins, stray hay sticking in the living room carpet, and just the space being used by the fencing.  In the evening of Day 14 I open the fence for the last time and do not pick up newbie.  I usually say something like “OK guys, I’ve had enough of the  mess – get along !!”  It’s anti-climactic !  Nobunny reacts to anybunny.  By this time, everybunny has had plenty of time to get used to the idea that someone new has arrived and by 14th day, they aren’t “new” any longer.  It’s like “ho hum, whatever . . .”

I got my first bunny, Bunny (boy) and two years later bonded Rex (boy).  I then bonded Jakey(girl) with Bunny and Rex.  Jakey died on the operating table during her spay and I adopted a 1 year old spayed doe Scooter and bonded her with Bunny and Rex.  Three weeks later I got Blackie (boy) (the first week of December so it really was a hustle going through the bond process before the 25th), a rescue, and bonded him with Bunny, Rexy and Scooter.  Now I had 4.  Bunny died of on-going medical issues 6 months later and for a while we had only 3.  Then we got Casey (boy) - a cutie Silver Marten like your Coffee – and that was just over 4 years ago.   If you want to see the 4 together, check out them out on my Facebook page Wendy Duffus.

I never wanted my rabbits to live in cages so bonding was the only option, and who can ever stop at ONE rabbit !?!!     .  The above process has never failed me.  I wish you luck with your little ones. 

[Deleted User]

Wendy, I think I saw somewhere on here that you are in Ontario, and that you are with a rabbit organization; I have been looking high and low for someone with extensive bonding experience to help a rabbit owner in Ontario. Message me if you would be interested.

[Walder]

THanks for all the help, im still trying, but it the box idea fails (im trying until sunday at least) ill try that wire panel i have 1 but its 6 sided.

[Walder]

Update- So ive been using some of your ideas and some of mines. Also ive been trying to get them to do everything at the same time, like feeding time, so i put both bowls at the same time outside their cages, but with some distance, i began with like 4 meters, now we are down to 1.5.

Even though they still dont get along, today they both were laying down in my living room at the same time , even though they were 4 meters apart, but unfortunately Peanut got up and went to Coffee so the charming moment was through.

Either way thats the only good thing until now, so maybe i still have a chance.

[Walder]

Update, it has been almost 2 weeks, and there was a little progress, Coffee still doesnt like Peanut, but at least now they eat together (this was the only thing that really worked) from the same bowl. When they are up and running, Coffee likes to be alone or playing with me, as soon as Peanut comes in less then 20 cm he runs away.

Also another problem is now Coffee started to urinate in the ground, not a big puddle of urine, just a few drops, and this is a NO NO in this house, so im a little confused… im doing like im litter training him again, but he can be 1 full day without urinating, then the next day, there it is…dont really know what to do.

[Walder]

Just an heads up.

They are both perfectly bonded now almost a year after it all started…was tiring.

[jerseygirl]

Oh wow! Glad I checked this thread again. What a relief for you! You really persisted with this. Congratulations!

Did the peeing problem also resolve?

[Jenna, Chubs & Comet]

I 2nd everyone’s advice but have to say….the Harlequin lop is ADORABLE and I want to steal him and add him to my pair and I swore I’d never do bonding again! lol Love him! Hang in there!

[Jenna, Chubs & Comet]

Oops, I didn’t see the last page of this till now. I change my comment to NICE JOB! Also…I still want to steal your bunny.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Great job!!!!!

[Author]

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