Handling senior / elder bun

[mia]

My 13+ bun is increasingly not comfortable with me. He was the most chill bun before, the one I’d let little kids hold without issues. Now, he’s peed a couple times while I try to pick him up or in my lap. He’s also bitten a few times which he’s never done before and was unthinkable behavior from him until recently.

My vets think he’s still the most chill bun ever and says they would never think he’s as old as he is. He does have arthritis and a little weakness so I’m not sure if this behavior is related to that.

Wondering if there’s advice on handling him in general. I’ve dealt with difficult bunnies before but I’m not sure if I should treat him that way or just back off. For example, I was only able to clip one paw yesterday and then he bit me. I was very slow and gentle. I could be more forceful to get the clipping done but his nails weren’t that long for a fight. I haven’t really bothered grooming him for a long time.

[LBJ10]

Is he on any meds for the arthritis? My very senior bunny was just on meloxicam continuously after he reached a certain age. But at that point, it was better to make him comfortable than to fret about possible side effects.

[mia]

I have meloxicam and gabapentin for him. Have to admit not consistent in giving it to him. He was really good about taking his meds but these days, he sometimes just refuses and I stopped forcing him to. As far as I can tell, the meds doesn’t seem to make a huge different in his behavior (he stretches quite a bit)

The vets said his arthritis is only mild and he’s had it at least a few years but this behavior is only in the last yr. The one sided ish weakness only started this year but I haven’t seen it much since the onset/we last saw the vet about it.

[LBJ10]

Hmm… well, he could be painful. Or he could just be a cranky old man. My bunny would bite when he wanted to be put down. He pretty much just accepted being handled though in his old age. Maybe he was just too old to fight back at that point. Haha!

[DanaNM]

I agree that he could be experiencing some pain with being handled. If you aren’t noticing a big difference with the meds it could mean he needs a different dose or dosing schedule. My bun did well on metacam and tramadol once his arthritis got bad.

My senior also experienced an EC flare when he was around 13 that I thought was just worsening arthritis. It turned out it was both… EC and pain from the arthritis. I wish I had treated for EC sooner because I think it really made his hind leg weakness a lot worse. His symptoms started with hind leg weakness and urinary incontinence. They progressed to a slight head tilt and circling, with him unable to get his legs under him.

It can be hard to keep up with the grooming, I think doing a little at a time is less stressful sometimes, but if he won’t tolerate any grooming then it can be better to just get it all done in one go. My senior always hated being handled. You do want to be more aware of the way you are handling and look for indications of pain. I had to be very aware of Bun Jovi’s hind leg position because his hips were very painful. Using a towel to help secure them can help.

I did have one vet previously who brushed off my concerns and that also contributed to delaying him getting proper treatment, so if you feel like your vet is not taking your concerns seriously I would seek a second opinion. Remember rabbits hide their pain extremely well, so these subtle signs are often the only clues as to what’s going on.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[mia]

I will ask about different medications next time and also mention *all* his issues .

The vets we see are very good. This bun is just extremely gentle and calm compared to other buns. When he bite me, it didn’t even leave a scratch, but for his personality, it’s a hard bite. I didn’t mention him biting; didn’t think it mattered. We went for urgent care for his weakness; vet said it’s one sided, both front and back. He’s had chronic UTI flare ups all his life which causes some urine on his legs so that being present wasn’t a big deal.

I cut his nails by just letting him sit normal on my lap and pulling each paw slightly to the side so I can see around his body. Is going to the, semi on back, method better? He doesn’t really show any signs at this point other than just hating simply being in my lap/being picked up; he was never this way before. He never actually liked being picked up before but never made a fuss vs now heavy breathing, biting, squirming away. He also thumps at his friend all the time and he’s never really thumped at his other previous friends but she is an annoying curious high energy youngin’.

[LBJ10]

It’s so difficult to know when they are that old since just about anything can start to fail. If it were me, I would try adjusting pain medication first. Bunnies are good at masking their pain and you just don’t know what could be hurting. Even though the weakness is just on one side (rather than both sides), it still might not be a bad idea to treat for EC.

And yeah, they can get kind of cranky in their old age and not want to put up with the shenanigans of a younger bunny. So that isn’t surprising. His reaction to her could simply mean she is just really annoying.

[mia]

Went in for another bun but asked about this since we needed refill.

Was told there wasn’t anything stronger except buprenorphine, which I understand is super strong and usually for end of life care. Was given a range for gabapentin for which we are currently at the lowest.

Was thinking of using the buprenorphine, lowest dose, only when it’s grooming days.

Now, my question is how do I know when to/how much to up the gabapentin? Because I swear, other than when I pick him up, he acts pretty much the same even periscoping when it’s vege time. I mean he is slower but I think the slower in general is just getting older. The one sided weakness I still have not seen since the couple times around Jan/Feb.

Or should I go up in gabapentin everyday first and not use the buprenorphine?

[DanaNM]

Did you ask about Tramadol? It’s usually recommended over gabapentin and buprenorphrine for rabbits. My vet had to have me order it through an online vet pharmacy as it’s a controlled substance.

Tramadol really made a big difference for my bun. Also be sure he is getting a large enough metacam dosage. We would space out the meds throughout the day so he would get metacam morning and night, and tramadol mid-day.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[mia]

I forgot to write it down and couldn’t remember the name. I pressed several times if there was something in between the two in terms of strength but she said no. But it may be that it can’t be prescribed easily. I know there’s other drugs that I used to get from them and now can’t.

He had a special surgery thing (hospitalized a week + 1 month solo recovery at home) many years ago and the pain med he was given was Tramadol. He was extremely drowsy from it and super hated me.Maybe that’s another reason.

I’ve been assured many times that gabapentin is extremely safe for long term usage and patients there are on both meloxicam and gabapentin long term without issues . I was surprised at the suggestion of buprenorphrine though as I’ve only heard that once extremely painful circumstance and I feel like arthritis should not, even at the worst, fit that level, but what do I know. I initially turned it down but then thought if it kicked in fairly quick, i can give on day of grooming.

What actual difference do you see?

[DanaNM]

I read a notice on medirabbit that mentioned that in rabbits gabapentin can sometimes cause limb weakness, which what one of my rabbits main problems.  Here’s the article:

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Neurolpetic/gabapent_effects.pdf

It notes that sometimes the side effects of gabapentin can be attributed to worsening symptoms or EC, so I think that’s just something to be aware of.

There was further discussion of this on this thread with some other members weighing in on their experiences:

Gabapentin for Arthritis?

My bun was very drowsy from the Tramadol the first day or two, but once we got the dose dialed in and he adjusted to it he was much more active and alert.

If his arthritis is only mild at this time, you may be fine with just meloxicam for now, as long as it’s dosed appropriately. There are also some supplements that seemed to help my bun for a while, but not as much as the meds. I have used a product called myristol in the past that did seem to help, as well as the “old bones mix” from floppers garden.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[mia]

I just got Myristol since it was on sale during the holiday. How did you get your bun to eat it? My bun eagerly tried one pellet and then didn’t bother with the rest. Don’t blame him; I don’t think it smells very good…

[DanaNM]

I dont have a great tip for this, one of my rabbits loved them but the other not so much. I think at one point I did try mixing them in with some recovery food that he liked, you could also try mixing them in a little pumpkin puree or mashed banana?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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