Hamlet and Ophelia, and me (NEED HELP WITH NEWBORNS!)

[GayleMG]

I am suddenly a rabbit caretaker again. I’ve had them in the past, but it has been many years. Last night, someone dumped a pair of bunnies in an empty field and the female gave birth in the box they were dumped in. My coworker found them and brought them in. I decided to take them. I have to relearn how to be a bunny mama (grandma) again. I have no idea how old the parents are, but they are Dutch rabbits. I don’t know what they have been eating, but the person who found them has been feeding them fresh vegetables and today I got them the Oxbow Young Rabbit food, since Ophelia is nursing. I also got them some timothy hay. They really dug into it as soon as I offered it, and the pellets too. I’m thinking I’ll need to house Hamlet separately. He’s pretty careful not to step on the babies, but he’s still trying to get busy with Ophelia and I don’t want another litter to get started, if it’s not too late already. I’m going to try to attach a pic. I’m open to any and all advice! BTW, as soon as possible they will get fixed. At least the adults. I might have to leave the neutering to the new owners once the babies are old enough to rehome.

[Bam]

Thank you for taking these rabbits in!

You should definitely separate mum and dad so you don’t get another litter. As you are saying, it might be too late -a girl bun can be pregnant as soon as she’s given birth. But the best you can do is of course to separate now.

The junior pellets is a great choice for mamabun, and it’s great for when the little ones start nibbling as well. Mamabun and babies could also have alfalfa hay for protein and calcium, but daddy should have grass hay. If daddy is an adult bun and his weight seems about right, he could probably benefit from the junior pellets as well, but in a smaller amount than mom.

You seem to know rabbits, but in case you’re not experienced with baby buns, there are a few useful links on our resources page https://binkybunny.com/RESOURCES/tabid/67/Default.aspx
(Scroll down to Pregnancy/Babies -Uh-Oh, Surprise Litter

It’s lovely of you to take these buns, they really need you!

[GayleMG]

Thanks! I’ll look over all the info about baby buns.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Big Welcome to you. So wonderful you took these bunnies in. Poor babies.

[GayleMG]

Not all the babies are thriving. Two are getting big and fat and the rest are still long and lean. I think I need to do supplemental feeding.

[GayleMG]

Don’t know why that posted twice. I don’t know whether to try extra feedings or not. I had put some strips of paper towels in there because Ophelia hadn’t been able to make a proper nest because of the dumping and all the moving and stuff. Yesterday she started to pull out some of her hair, finally, and put it in the nest. I noticed this morning that they had dug down through the hay and were sitting directly on the bottom of the cardboard box, which was damp, from their pee I guess. I removed the babies and hay and put a folded sheet in the bottom of the box, then replaced the hay and bunnies. I even cut some more of Ophelia’s hair with grooming scissors because in the moving her hair had gotten scattered. I don’t have anymore paper towel strips in there. I started to worry that not all of the bunnies were finding their way past the paper towel strips to get to a nipple. They are all warm and pink and active, but some are just long and lean still, while 2 others are definitely plump. One might be a runt. I was hoping there would not be a runt, but I think there is. He’s warm and pink and active, but still very tiny and not filled out at all.

[GayleMG]

Admins, should I move this conversation to a different forum?

[GayleMG]

The baby bunnies are all dying.

[GayleMG]

I have three left. I took Ophelia and them to the vet. She’s lactating but probably not spending enough time with them. I made her nurse the last 3 and cleaned their bottoms until they peed. I haven’t seen poop but I’ll try again later. Ophelia is healthy. The vet thinks she is just young and doesn’t know what to do. I’ll have to make her nurse a couple times a day and stimulate the poop and per myself. When I explained the situation the vet also thought that Ophelia might already have been knocked up again and to get her checked out again in a couple weeks to check for that.

[LittlePuffyTail]

I’m so sorry. (((((Binky Free Babies))))))

I will move this to the Q&A section and edit the title so you can hopefully get more replies there. I have no knowledge of baby bunnies. This forum has a limited number of baby experienced members. I suggest you check out the Forum “RabbitsOnline”. (www.rabbitsonline.net). They have a breeding and baby section and you will probably find some experienced and knowledgeable members there.

[DarthVadar]

Most dams only nurse the kits twice a day. Rabbits instinctively stay away from the babies in order to throw off predators. Many people see this as the mom being neglectful, when in reality its her existing as a prey animal trying to save her litter.
There is a 99% chance she’s pregnant again. Within minutes after kindling, does can conceive. You or your vet can palpate at days 10-14 after conception. Assume date of conception was the day the kits were born.
Many first time moms lose a couple kits in their first litter. What you are experiencing (sadly) is very normal. Dutch (Ophelia has very beautiful markings, by the way) are notoriously good mothers, and her first time mommy experience is not as bad as some. In the worst situations, the rabbit kindles, won’t feed the kits, and destroys the nest. With most cases, though, it is best to let the mom do her thing.

[GayleMG]

This was a definite case of abandonment. The remaining babies were literally dying until I made her nurse. I have given the babies to an experienced rehabber in order to give them the chance to be saved. Now Hamlet and Ophelia are my only responsibility. I’m sure I did the right thing. They were fading and if they are to survive at all they need to be in experienced hands. I will get Ophelia spayed as soon as I can. I know the chances are really good she’s already pregnant again. I just hope I can afford it. I’ll call my vet tomorrow and see what it costs.

[GayleMG]

This is why I was hoping for a local mentor. You can read about stuff all day long, but there’s nothing like actual experience and seeing things with your own eyes. But still, to my inexperienced eyes they looked to be fading and needing intervention. I think I lost the first three by waiting to see if she was taking care of things.

[DarthVadar]

That sounds like actual abandonment. Many people mistake normal behavior for abandonment, so I just wanted to clarify. Just curious: how did you make her nurse?
If she is pregnant and does have another litter, chances are it will go more smoothly than this one.

[GayleMG]

She’s very sweet and just allowed me to hold her while I put the babies on her. She struggled a little, but not much. She loves to hop in my lap and be cuddled. Someone was good to her, which is why the dumping in the field is so confusing to me. Maybe someone in the family that wasn’t in love with the rabbits sneaked them away and dumped them. I’m actually nervous about the second litter stuff. Maybe it would go better, but I have baby anxiety now. That was traumatic for me. I’m hoping to get an update from the rehabber. I need to email her and ask how I can get a donation to her, if she’s on PayPal, etc. I’ll ask her how they are doing, but I’m almost afraid of the answer. Of the three, one of them was very frail and would have been the next to kick off without the emergency feeding. If I can’t afford a spaying, a second litter is probably likely. Hamlet is nice in his way, but more independent and seems to tolerate affection rather than seek it out. He’s beautiful, though. I don’t think he’s all Dutch. He’s very fluffy around the neck. Maybe some Lionhead? I’ll try to share a better pic

[Bam]

You are doing a wonderful job. It is a well known fact that you often lose some or all of the babies in the first litter a very young rabbit has. I’m sorry this happened, but you are certainly doing all you can and then some.

The rabbits could have been in a family where some family members loved them and other family members did thee xact opposite. The person who put them in the box and abandonned them could have been trying to save them from a worse fate.

If she has a second litter. she will probably do better with them, but she will most likely prioritize the new babies. It is extra important that you give her rich food (junior pellets and alfalfa hay) now, because being pregnant at the same time as nursing will take a toll.

[GayleMG]

Since the three remaining ones are with a rehabber, she won’t have to prioritize. She still has milk right now. I’m going to continue with the rich food, just in case. I took away the nest box.

[GayleMG]

BTW, I will get on the rabbitsonline forum just in case I’m in for a new litter. I will cross fingers for the fact she is safe and stable now and it would not be the first litter, things will go better.

[Bam]

Sorry, I misread your posts, I somehow thought only the weakest babies were with the rehabber. Thank you for clarifying!

The nest box is not needed until very late in the pregnancy, most buns don’t nest until a day or so before they give birth.

[DarthVadar]

Poor babies. Leaving bunnies alone in a field seems so weird. Like, of all the ways to get rid of rabbits, that makes the least sense.
Rabbits gestation is 28-31 days (kits can be born a couple days after 31, or a day/a few hours before day 28, but its pretty rare). Putting the nestbox in on day 27 is usually suggested; it gives her enough time to get used to it and build a nest, but not enough time to make it her new litterbox. When my Corrie (also a Dutch) had her babies, I left her nestbox in for the entire pregnancy with no problems, but I’m sure that’s not true in most cases.

[Bam]

I found my Bam dumped outside. He sat on a pile of trash next to a dirt road. He had fur mites, so maybe that’s why they dumped him. He was the kindest, sweetest little boy. People are strange.

[DarthVadar]

Is he the bun in your avatar? His fur is beautiful!

[Bam]

DarthVadar: Yes, that’s Bam =) His fur got a reddish sheen to it in the summer.

[GayleMG]

Bam was pretty. What breed is that?
Well, I just called the rehabber and she said the remaining 3 bunnies are doing fine! I’m so thrilled to hear it because I was worried about them. She will pull them through and they will have a good life.
My vet will spay Ophelia for $160, but it could be more if she’s pregnant already. It could be $210-$235 if that’s the case.

[bonnie_bunny]

In my (albeit limited) experience, a vet won’t spay a female if she’s already pregnant unless there’s a complication. I could be entirely wrong though. I’ve been lurking hoping to hear the babies are okay so I’m happy to hear an update!

[Bam]

Yay for thriving babies!!! So good to hear!

The prices you mention are about the same as it would be here, but that’s pretty irrelevant because I’m not in the USA. I know prices can vary a huge lot between different parts of the USA. If you’re willing to share your general whereabouts (no details!), maybe other members could recommend you a vet or clinic.

(My Bam was a dwarf lop, which is roughly the same as a Holland lop in the USA.)

[GayleMG]

I’m in Dallas TX

[Bunny House]

I’m in college station, I love A&M vet but I know that’s far from you. They have great prices though, so it might be worth driving there if it’s was cheaper than places by you. I know plenty of vets what will spat and pregnant dog or cat but I’m not sure about bunnies.

[GayleMG]

I’ve been to College Station. Its probably 4 hours or so. I think I’ll let my vet here do it. He doesn’t advertise as an exotic vet, but he neuters and slays bunnies for the local animal shelter all the time, so he knows how to do it. I’ve had her for 10 days. I wonder if I could tell if she’s pregnant already.

[GayleMG]

No I think it’s more than 4 hours. Its about 4 hours to Austin and College Station is farther than that.

[Author]

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