Grooming, Flopping, humping… Our Bonding Experience and a few quwsestions.

[Bobby'sMom]

Hello everybun,

It’s been a long time since my last post but I’m looking for advice. So, Harry and Mila hace known each other since September 28 approximately when we brought Harry home 2 weeks after Milas arrival. Of course at that moment baby Mila was beyond upset and even nipped Harry through the bars when he once was able to escape the first barrier making screaaaaam like crazy after pulling a good part of his fluff.

Anyhow, we did tons of pre bonding since September and as time passed they got used to each other, we got them fixed first thing in January and we are finally in the bonding stage but I need your advise since I have not seen any of the behaviours everybody talks about. I think things are going good but don’t know how much.

These are the facts:

Harry (6mo Neutered)
Mila (7mo Spayed)

First date: Feb 10
Length: 15 – 20 min
Technique Stress bonding
We put them in a box (not our carrier) with a grid to keep them separate until when we got into the car. They were very scared ignoring each other for a few minutes minutes. They also were trying to jnteract with me as I was holding the box instead of with each other. Eventually Harry started eating like crazy all of the pellets I think he was nervous eating. No signs of fighting or aggression at all.

Second date February 11
Length: 30 – 35min
Technique: Stress + bath tub
Took them on a car ride around the neighbourhood. It was much better as they snuggled. Especially Mila who was more stressed. Harry was more relaxed. Even with the car in movement Harry mounted Mila several times, we proceeded to shake the box much more abruptly until when finally got so scared that they both ended up snuggling into each other. This definitely helped. At first I tried to remove him but she was able to tolerate him. Tons of pets for Mila. After that we took them to the bath tub. Both buns were scared at the beginning the more mounting from Harry. Mila would lay down as submissive. More humping for Harry. Tons of pets for both of them. He tried to mount her face but we did not let him. It seems he learned the face was not ok to mount.

Third date February 12
Length: 45 – 50min
Put them in the box again separated until when we got to another bathroom they are not allowed to get into. We shaked the box and pales some weird noises and scary ones from YouTube. Harry seemed to be looking to start to mount right away but we started the terrible shaking that had him petrified within a few second. We proceeded to take it easier. He mounted her only once. She did not mind it. She was so scared she probably preferred it over what she was living in the box lol. We Jen moves them to the Tun in the other bathroom. They seemed a little more relaxed than the first time right away. Mila
Was much more quite. Harry has a few treats before proceeding with a good humping session and Mila allowed it. However this time HE GROOMED HER!!! ??? He was the mounter and the groomer???? I did not understand Thad.. does anybody know why this happened?
Anyhow, after tons of mounting and some grooming he proceeded to flop next to her like literally next to her almost on her. I got super scared at the amount of trust he gave her but it seems they both were cool about it. However a few seconds later the stood up cause it almost seems
Like Mila ignored him and he noticed that. So sad lol. We did tons of pets for both bunnies, they snuggled together for a good amount of time. Harry would lay his head on top of Milas body big time. She was not minding it and she even LOOKED FOR HIM when he moved away for a bit. After so much grooming and snuggle Jarry demandes her for grooming for some time. It seems at some point she got fed up with him demanding it but instead of biting she did a quick 1 second grooming like saying ‘fine here is a little pity grooming’ After the bonding seasion harry looked broke hearted but Mila was just fine.

This morning feb 13.
Bathroom door was open. Harry got into bathroom and jumped into the tub?! Even though we had covered the tub during the bonding and we had the curtain keeping the rest of the room from the tub as we always do. I turned on te light and the poor thing was looking for Mila to come join him (but poor Mila was in her pen). He knew were Mila was cause they spend tons of time next to each other through the pens. I was broken hearted. Poor baby.

Fourth Sessoon February 13 (Today)
Length: 45min
Did only 5 min of stress bonding as they both seemed quite desperate to get out from the box but were also snuggling which I took as a very good sign.
Moved them to Tun. They were looking for a way out at first. But I’m 2 or 3 min they del comfortable. They explored a little once again and hen starting to kind of to get together. Harry groomed Mila for a bit then tons of snuggle. They only ate a little piece of a treat thy were more interested in spending some quality time together. The first 10min there was no mounting at all. After some time of Harry for a hit she FLOPPED this time. And he looked surprised for a moment and then continue to groom her. It looked awkward and funny cause it almost looked as if she was death. This went on for a few minutes. They snuggled more. Then Harry got bored and moved away, later on he mounted her. She did not mind it as much at the beginning but could see we beginning to get fed up with the mounting so removed Harry. They then snuggled and then they put their noses against each other and I petted them both. They had what it seems a 10 min snooze after that. Then Harry atarte getting bored in the tub and moved around and thumped twice ‘Get me out of here mom! I want to go and explore!’. So I ended the session taking Mila first out first am he seemed pretty sad to be alone in te tub for 30 seconds. The. Let him out and since Mila was not out to explore with him (she was in her pen) he wanted to get back into the tub again.

QUESTIONS
1. Is it normal to have the same mounting bunny grooming and the bunny being mounted demanding the grooms and they both agreeing to these tweaked role?
2. Why did they flop so fast early in the bonding stages?
3. What should be the next step? Having them spend 2 hours together??
4. Should I keep using the tub or move them to a pen since they seem pretty happy to each other and Harry seems uncomfortable in the tub?
5. What can u do to reduce their separation anxiety???? Is it normal? I find it a good sign but should be allowing them more time together?
6. All things being this good and they falling in love so much. Should I really take 2 or 3 months to bond even if they are being super lovable to each other?

[Sirius&Luna]

You don’t really need to do so much stress bonding if they’re not fighting. Personally, I find stress bonding quite unnecessary unless there is a lot of fighting. There’s no need to cause them so much stress when they’re being nice.

1. In a bonded pair both bunnies should groom each other, so it’s not unusual. It sounds like they haven’t agreed a hierarchy yet. Harry is trying to enforce his dominance by mounting, and Mila is trying to enforce hers by demanding grooms so they’re at a bit of a stand off.
2. flopping is good. It shows that they’re not scared of each other. Some bunnies also flop dramatically to prove how unscared they are of the other bun. This may have been why Harry flopped so early – it was showing off.
3/4. If they’re getting bored in the tub, you could try a slightly bigger area, or an extended time. Just increase time a bit each day.
5. I’m not really sure what you mean by separation anxiety. I think you might be projecting feelings on to them. If they’re not bonded, they won’t miss each other.
6. Bonding doesn’t have to take a set amount of time. Normally 2 to 3 months is given as a guide including prebonding. It takes most people about a month of actual bonding sessions. Your bunnies have made a good start, but you absolutely need to continue proper bonding sessions as they haven’t sorted out hierarchy or spent more than 45 minutes together, or been anywhere except the bath tub. Just be patient and gradually increase the time/space.

[Bobby'sMom]

Thanks sirius and Luna.
So I had the 5 and 6 session with the buns now each one lasted 1hr.

I skipped the stress bonding g as you recommended and guess what? It worked. They were absolutely fine.

Here’s a quick update of how things went.

Session 5 – tub 1hr
Tons of snuggles and grooming from harry to Mila and Mila ignoring Harry’s grooming requests. This session Harry mounted Mila only once and this time Mila got fed up and ran and I separated them as it seems like a scuffle was kind of starting. They moved on a couple minutes later.

Session 6 – 1hr in tub
First 10 min they started by totally ignoring each other which I found interesting given the other days were going good but we also added hay in this session, and it was before their dinner so it can also be the reason for it. They kept eating ether next to each other or on different areas of the tub but they did not have any problems with each other. Then, they started warming up into each other after that again. Tons of grooming from Harry to Mila And Mila kept ignoring Harry. There were more flops from both of them next to each other but the other rabbit would move away when whichever bunny would flop next to them. So yes may be showing off. Something different happened This time. At some point around min 50 Harry got tempted to mount Mila. He got behind her a couple times and finally on one ocasión he was behind her and put his front paws on her like getting ready to mount, but then he stopped as if he doubled guessed and changed his mind and went to groom Milas head… it seems maybe he is accepting Mila as the top bunny?

They lasted more than an hour in the tub with no problems at all. I will move them onto a pen iba neutral room today and see how they react.

[Bobby'sMom]

Hello wanted to give you an update on how things are progressing:

Session 7
Feb 16 in the morning
2 Hours
Semi neutral territory
New area is a play pen in Orr guests room to which the rabbits don’t have access however they have both been in there a few ones before (they love to get into it when we open the door lol). We also put a towel on the ground since we have laminated floor.
To associate The change with a positive experience we put a salad made of lettuce, pellets and dried banana in the middle of the area.
First 10min was fully focusing on food. They had no problem at all sharing.
Next 10 min after the salad they both explored ways to get out of the pen but obviously were not successful.
Real bonding time started approx after min 20 or 25. Mila would do a few binkys here and there for no apparent reason and Harry was ok with that. They would from time to time stop whatever they were doing to go and acknowledge the other rabbit by bumping heads in a cute way and flopping for a couple of seconds. At the beginnings Harry groomed Mila a few times but the amount of grooming kept decreasing because Mila was reluctant to groom him as well. After minute 90 Harry was just laying down sleeping and Mila approached him and started grooming him out of the blue. Harry loved it. They were pretty snuggly after that.

I had forgotten to mention that up to this point there had been ZERO MARKING behaviour surprisingly and happily for us.

Session 8
Feb 16 evening 1hr
Prepared dinner for them (another salad) and started the bonding session with the salad in the middle. First 10 min t was all about the food. Right after that they started laying next to each other and taking turns grooming each other. It feels good to see both bunnies are happy and satisfied with each other. After minute 30 I added a brand new litter box with some hay. They both hopped in and started eating hay. They struggled to fits properly to have access to the hay as comfortable as they would normally do t when they each eat and poop on their own littlerbox but there was not any aggressive signs or behaviour. They snuggled more the rest of the session. At some point Harry flopped and took a 10min snooze approximately in his flipped position with eyes closed while mula was in the litter box both bunnies seemed totally comfortable with each other.

I am hoping to do two 3hours sessions tomorrow and Monday.

I feel the bonding is starting to flourish because they are now spending more tome with each other trough the cages even though Harry is a freee Roma bunny and could pretty much be anywhere around the house.

[Bobby'sMom]

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[Bobby'sMom]

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[Bobby'sMom]

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[Asriel and Bombur]

Honestly, at this point you could probably just go as long as you can, assuming things stay good. If neither one is showing aggression I’d just keep them together as long as time allows.

[Author]

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