Geriatric romance – Bonding for the older bun

[Bella Bella]

Bella is a 7 year old unspayed standard bun, and been with us nearly 7 years. Enter Aaron – 5 year old pure bred mini lop (ex-stud): Neutered 3 weeks ago when he came to us. Since then they’ve been sitting either side of the separating fence in the run without growling or boxing. Have witnessed sniffing and grooming.. what should I do next!?

[Sirius&Luna]

Although they’ve already been able to smell each other, it’s probably a good idea to do a bit of pre-bonding. Either swap the buns between hutches, or swap their litter trays/toys/blankets. Its generally recommended that you do this for a month, but since they’ve already been smelling each other you might be able to get away with less time.

Once you’ve done your prebonding, you’re ready to introduce on neutral territory.

Has Bella always been alone?

I’ve also just noticed that Bella is unspayed. We normally say that both bunnies must be spayed and neutered before you can bond. Since she’s probably a bit too old to be spayed now, I’m not sure what best next steps would be. I’ll let someone else step in!

[Bella Bella]

Thank you for replying Sirius and Luna (my daughter loves those names being an HP fan!)

Bella came to us as an unplanned guest. With one stumpy paw and only one ear she was due to be euthanised. Vet wouldn’t spay her as she was very weak. She went in a 25ft x 10ft run with burrowing areas with our two free range guinea pigs Fudge and Sweetie (originally separate sleeping hutches but they all bundled in together after a few weeks) and they became firm friends. Last piggie Sweetie passed away Sept last year. Thought Bella was too old to make a friend but on reading loads about lone rabbits I came to conclusion she’d be happier with a mate. I wouldn’t choose guinea pigs again as I know it’s not ideal (the previous relationship with Bella and the piggies was a one-off, borne of necessity and just happened to work). And so that is why 7 year old unspayed Bella has a new friend.

[Sirius&Luna]

Sorry I wasn’t criticising, I think it’s great that you’ve got her a friend. I’m just pretty inexperienced with bonding (I literally just successfully bonded my pair), so I’m not sure how to advise you proceed with an unspayed female, as they are more likely to be territorial and aggressive.

I asked whether she’d had a friend before as bunnies who have previously been bonded are supposedly easier to bond, as they already ‘speak bunny’!

[Bella Bella]

Oh no, I didn’t think you were criticising at all. I found your reply really helpful and just thought that I should explain Bellas’s back history as it is a bit unusual. I’ve taken on board your advice and thought I’d start swapping their bedding as from this evening ?

Any more advice on bonding an unspayed girl with a neutered boy would be great.

[Bella Bella]

PS. Well done for successfully bonding Sirius and Luna because from what I read it’s not at all easy! Wish me luck ??

[DanaNM]

I have to advise against trying to bond them as she isn’t spayed… and you risk her being injured by trying to bond them.

Things can all seem to be going well, and then a fight can break out after weeks or months of thinking they are bonded. A proper bond cannot form if one rabbit is hormonal.

You will find the odd case of people bonding unspayed females with neutered males, but you will also find an equal number of cases where this has failed, and fights have broken out.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

I also wanted to add, that his hormones are not settled yet, and prob need another 3 weeks to fully dissipate.

You also must be absolutely sure they cannot make physical contact through the fence at this point, to avoid any fighting and him impregnating her! Males can impregnate females for 2-3 weeks after neutering, and a pregnancy at her age would be disastrous.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bella Bella]

Thank you for your reply DanaNM. I feel a bit stunned to be honest because I’ve been researching getting another bunny for literally months as Bella is so sweet I didn’t want to risk upsetting her in any way. I just feel she is so lonely and with winter coming this will get worse (she is an outdoor rabbit). I read loads and spoke to many rescues but only now has someone said it is more likely not to work than to be successful and I do thank you for your honesty. But it leaves me in a quandary.

They could live separately as the set up I have would work but defeats the object as I got Aaron for Bella, not for me. I really don’t know what to do now. I wish someone had said this to me earlier in all my investigations. I knew from research that bonding does not always work but no one said it was so unlikely because she’s not spayed. Someone even said because of age the hormones have diminished somewhat.

I just don’t know what to do now and will have to think long and hard about him now.

[DanaNM]

I’m surprised that a rescue would encourage it, because the first thing that every bonding guide I’ve seen says is that both animals must be spayed/neutered.

I don’t know, there might be people that could give more advise on it, possibly on other forums. From what I’ve read here though, it’s risky. The bonding process would be the same. You would let his hormone settle for another few weeks, then do 1 week to 1 month of pre-bonding (cage swaps), then dating in neutral territory, etc. I have seen success stories on other forums, so you might do some searching there if you really want to try… I just don’t feel comfortable encouraging it.

Either way, can you move her inside? Then you could give her more attention and she would be safer.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

Maybe some of the forum leaders can chime in here, as they have seen far more accounts of different pairings…. I don’t want to be alarmist, but I also wouldn’t want to recommend something that could get your baby hurt!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

You also might want to edit the title to include that she’s unspayed. You will probably get more responses that way!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bam]

Hi! It’s true that we always recommend that both rabbits be de-sexed before attempting bonding. There are people that have bonded an unspayed girl with a neutered boy, and I know it can work, but the risk is higher. The presence of another bun can kick up a hormonal storm in the intact rabbit, and that can lead to unpredictable behavi such as territoriality, aggression, almost manic courtship and false pregnancies and so on. So the situation is not ideal, and it might not work (but then there are never any guarantees when it comes to bonding two rabbits). Are you scared to have her spayed because of her age?

You need to wait at least 4 weeks after the boy’s neuter before you attempt any contact between the rabbits. You can do pre-bonding now by exchanging toys and/or litter boxes between the rabbits. 

When/If you start regular bonding-sessions you have to be very vigilant. But that really what everybody that’s attempting to bond any two buns must be, super-vigilant and armed with gloves and a spray bottle with water and something that can make a distracting noise (a vacuum cleaner, most often). You can read more about bonding here: https://binkybunny.com/BUNNYINFO/tabid/53/Default.aspx 

(Scroll to “Bonding”)

[Bella Bella]

Thank you for all your replies. I do fear that spaying at her age would be dangerous.

Lots of food for thought and it may be that I’ll have two buns living side by side for the rest of their days rather than the snuggly existence I had hoped for them.

Thank you all again.

[jerseygirl]

This is a guide I used when I had my first pair of rabbits. http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/education-resources/articles/rabbit-care-articles/love-match-a-guide-to-bonding-your-rabbits/
It does emphasis that having both rabbits desexed is best but also acknowleges it may not always be possible due to health reasons.

I personally know of some people that had their desexed boys living with intact girls. One was a family of rabbits. The father and brother desexed. There was a falling out but this happened due to them being challenged by droppings from other rabbits. An unfortunate incident when a feed store swept up some droppings with some spilt rabbit feed and went on to sell the bag. Despite this, the owner was able to repair the bond between the mother and father and they lived together again as a pair. And the brother and sister as a pair, I think. I’ll need to check.

(As an aside, the females are now desexed. This was done when the owner found a vet they were confident with)

The other ones I know of are a trio of wild rabbits. The female lived with the neutered males for over a year before she was eventually desexed. I took her to be desesxed but I cannot remember how old she was by then. Lol.  Definitely and adult though.

I think it was common in the past for intact females to be paired with neutered males. The health risk for leaving females intact wasn’t as well known and vets didn’t do a lot of rabbit spays. It is easier now days to find vets experienced with this.

I think it is good to be aware that bonding may go differently when one rabbit is still intact. A lot does come down to the individual rabbits characters too.

[Bianca]

Hi, I haven’t read all the replies but I would say give it a try and just take it very slow.

My husband rescued two older female rabbits who weren’t spayed (and vets chose not to spay at the age my husband got them). They were bonded most of their lives without issues. When Weatherwax passed away we took Ogg to a shelter for a meet and greet where she picked Terry as slightly tolerable. They bonded within days, and were bonded without issue until the day Ogg had to be PTS this year.

I think I got lucky with Terry being so friendly – he has insta bonded again with others and is now in a group of 4.

But I do think it is possible. Just take it much slower, and see how you go. Be prepared for it not to work. If she has been alone all her life she probably won’t mind being alone if it doesn’t work out.

[Bam]

It seems bonds between unspayed doe and neutered bucks are still common here where I live. More and more people are getting their does spayed for health reasons, but it can still be difficult to find good reliable rabbit vets here that can do the procedure safely.

[Bella Bella]

Thank you all, Jersey-Girl, Bianca and Bam and to everyone who has taken the time to help me out.  I really appreciate everyone’s input and have read with interest all the different scenarios.  Yesterday morning I was about to throw in the towel and let them live separate lives, then last night I was considering having her spayed!  

But having read everyone’s messages I think I am going to give it a go with her being unspayed as I do think she is a bit old for all that business!  I haven’t mentioned before, but she was born with just one ear and three good legs and so she’s not the most robust of rabbits. 

I will do it very slowly and will leave it at least another 4 weeks before introducing nose to nose as by then it will be 2 months since Aaron was spayed.  In that time I’ll do loads of swapping of bedding, bowls etc.  

I also read that stroking one for a long time and then immediately stroking the other down to the skin is a good idea as it transfers the scent.

May even try the “ride in the car together” but I feel this is a bit mean as I think Bella would be really frightened.   But it’s something to think about.

I think that if there is going to be a bonding it may be Aaron who is in charge as he seems quite an assertive rabbit compared to Bella, but you never know!  She seems fairly easy going and quiet but you we’ll see what happens when a guy comes on the scene.

I feel excited again that there is perhaps hope of Bella having a loving friend, but I will prepare myself for failure too.

I will post some more updates once introduction starts in a few weeks.  Wish me luck and thank you all so much for your experienced advise.  Those who sent links, I don’t have time to read them at the moment but will definitely take a look soon.

Love to all those buns who have passed on.

Jane, Bella and Aaron x

[Bam]

We’ll really love updates on this =)

Stroking the one first and then the other sounds like a good idea. As for stress-bonding (car-rides, laundrybasket on top of spinning washing machine etc), it’s for difficult bonds, when you’ve tried like everything else first. The thought behind it is to scare the bunnies so they seek comfort in each other. Hopefully you’ll never need to do any of that with Bella and Aaron.

[DanaNM]

Yes, would really love updates! And so glad others with more knowledge chimed in for a more hopeful snuggly future for Bella and Aaron.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bella Bella]

Dear all. I meant to update you on the bonding between Bella and Aaron who are an older pair of buns. I was going to start introducing Bella and Aaron face to face on Sauturday as I have the week off. Aaron’s been neutered now for 2 months and he and Bella have been bonding really well over that time across a separating fence. But very sadly, my sweet Bella passed away this morning. She was fine on Monday but a bit subdued last night so I took her straight to the vet this morning where she died in the vet’s arms from a heart attack. The vet said her heart beat was very slow and it was simply heart failure in an older bunny. I just wanted to let everyone know who gave me advice on bonding a few weeks ago, as I did promise an update, but sadly not this one. Love to all. Jane & Aaron

[Bam]

Oh, I’m so very sorry to learn this I have been thinking about you and your bonding project.

It’s beautiful when a bun gets to live out her life and pass due to old age. I wish she could’ve stayed with you longer, but it seems her time was up. I’m glad she got to meet Aaron and get along with him, even if it was across a fence.

Binky free, sweet ****Bella****

[Bella Bella]

Thank you so much Bam xxx

[DanaNM]

Oh my goodness, I’m so sorry for your loss

Second everything that bam said, it was clear that she was well loved and was given a lovely life with you (and a second chance at that).

(((((Binky free Bella)))))

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bella Bella]

Thank you ???

[Author]

Messages