Franz and Jasmine: Bonding (will update almost daily)

[cactuspancake]

The first date: All binkies and nice bunny things

So first day home we had that bitten ear incident. Days two and three, fighting through the cage horribly, and day four, I’ve made a more permanent setup giving the bunnies each half a room and toys ect. I thought it was going to be a repeat of earlier in the day, so I got out my camera to show the binkybunniers what’s going on when Franz surprised me by not baiting Jazz and attacking her like usual. So in the video you an see Franz still charges the gate angrily, and had it not been seperated by a few inches, probably would have grabbed her. So you can see him kind of “flapping” his ears up and down quickly in aggression, then flopping over. He did this a few times it was pretty weird. Jasmine was the uneasybone this time, she’s usually the one being a sweetie. All four of us snuggled in the room for about two hours. Franz was flopping a lot and Jazz climbed all over Mihael and snuggled with him, all within a few feet of Franz (through the gate). (see the video below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaMI81k5AzU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Bunny ears

Then bunny butts

Some investigation

Franz flopping near the gate

Jasmine getting relaxed

[Helenor]

Wow, and they were fighting before? (or Franz rather) They look so cute together. I love Jasmine’s little tail and Franz’s flop at the end. I think if you keep at it, they’ll get along. Lago and Panko were living kind of like this before they were bonded. I put some space between the bars so Lago couldn’t bite Panko on the nose. She eventually got used to him and I put them together after Panko was neutered and they bonded very quickly. This session reminds me of before they were bonded and lived side by side.

[mocha200]

wow! Flops! and with his back toward her! thats great signs!

[Deleted User]

I will be a spoilsport here. Don’t allow your rabbits to tell you what looks promising and what doesn’t. You have the power to get them bonded by way of adjusting the techniques you are using. The question should be if you are using the right approach to counter what hangups they may have. As long as you do not allow any very severe injuries to occur, you are on the right track.

[cactuspancake]

Thanks guys. Jasmine was injured badly in my opinion (she’s missing a chunk of her ear! )but she seems to still like him. I definitely think that my earlier setups sucked and were causing them anger but now I feel like this setup is good. I totally feel like I have the power to make it or break it.

[cactuspancake]

OMG there’s a trio of bonded female mini rexes I play with while I volunteer, and they are so cute! Try are like TINY mini rexes all three of them make a Franz lol. They were doing mirrored binkies, and one worked hard an got all three to play it was so great. Stuff like that keeps me really motivated to work with my little fuzzballs <3

[cactuspancake]

Yesterday Jasmine figured out a way into Franz’s side of the room and I caught her *almost* right away as I was two rooms over and heard some scrabbling. Jasmine pulled out over 10 tufts of Franz’s fur… no one got hurt luckily and no blood or skin missing from Franz. Jasmine seems to be becoming more aggressive over time, as well as Franz. I catch them pacing back and forth all day up against the x pen with Franz trying to grab her through the fence still, and Jasmine looking for ways to get at him. The stress bonding hasn’t been going well at all and I’m unable to end on an even calm note. The bonding time is becoming so stressful on all of us and feels unfair to the new bunny Michael keeps pointing out that if feels like animal abuse putting them together and I find it hard for me to argue with that. They just aren’t safe to put near eachother and they’re becoming more weary of us and even scared. I keep thinking that I’m unintentionally making them hate each other as well as fear the presence of humans. Franz is afraid every time I go to pet him now, and Jasmine seems to have stopped progressing with warming up. Michael says he doesn’t want to continue until we get some help with them and I agreed for the rabbits’ sake. We just want what’s best.

[FluffyBunny]

They sound a lot like my rabbits. My rabbits never did well with the stress bonding – in fact, I think it just made them more aggressive. I’ll share a few things that helped with my rabbits.

First, when they fight, as long as nobunny’s getting hurt, just let them do it for a few seconds before you separate them. It sounds very counter-intuitive, but some rabbits (specifically, most who are territorial or having trouble determining who’s the top bunny) seem to be helped by a little fighting.

Second, if the stress bonding doesn’t seem to be working, just don’t do it! My rabbits fought constantly until I stopped stress bonding.

Third, try feeding the bunnies together in a small room (bathrooms work great). Bunnies seem to consider eating to be a very social activity, and most of them are willing to do it with a bunny who they don’t really like. This helps to make the bunnies associate each other with something positive.

Fourth, if all else fails, try taking a little break. After a couple of huge fights, my rabbits were really helped by a few weeks break and a fresh start.

[cactuspancake]

Thanks fluffybunny. We did actually let them fight a few times but it just got more intense than we hoped, and didn’t seem to help them work anything out. Franz just doesn’t seem to have anything in his vocabulary besides “attack.” They have their food dishes and hay up against the fence and eat with their heads close. It works great. I was just in there petting them both through the fence and they both flopped over against it. I’m just going to keep up with that and not let them touch each other for a long time at least.

[Deleted User]

At this point you don’t want to allow any close altercation. Once one of them learns to back down, you can let them have close-ups on their own. But where you are in their bonding, you should never let them be loose, always restrain with your hands and stroke them calm. Since they have had some scuffles and have been escalating too, you need to take time of just stroking sessions. Maybe spend a few weeks of doing those. Do try the imitated grooms on them: use a damp cloth or a soft brush and imitate grooming motions on their foreheads. Groomed bunnies do not fight while they are being groomed. It can really break the ice.

[cactuspancake]

Thanks, Petzy. So far grooming them together seems to be the only thing they can do without getting angry. I’ll definitely do more of that!

[Deleted User]

Good. Now that you have this one technique, the grooming, that works, all you need to do is outlast them.

[cactuspancake]

Now that Jasmine is acclimatized to my house and used to me, I’ve started putting them in pens next to eachother. I felt like Jasmine maybe thought I just wanted to scare her and put her next to a nasty bunny every day, so she’s been sleeping with me in my room! She sleeps on my chest a little bit every night and she’s very tidy XD I miss her in my room but the time has come to try again to get the bunnies used to each other.

They’ve been next to each other almost all day for 3 days, but Franz still tries to bite her face through the fence. I’m waiting for him to calm down and get used to her presence.

Should I put them in NIC cubes next to eachother? I could make little boxes for small sessions. They can’t be in the exact same space or they will murder each other.

[Jenna, Chubs & Comet]

Try to do most of the bonding in a neutral place that belongs to neither of them. The bathtub with a towel in it worked great for us. Then keep them in pens next to each other with enough space between so they can’t hurt each other. I’d also recommend going through and really cleaning their pens every few days with vinegar and such to get rid of all the ownership scents. Maybe try a stuffed animal that’s all scented up with the other bun in their pens. They might be able to take some aggression out on that instead of the real thing.

[cactuspancake]

Michael and I have been putting Franz’s vest on him and letting him walk around the room with Jasmine out. Jasmine can be completely trusted and doesn’t cause the problems. The vest is really really useful. I have my hand right at the bottom of the lead so he can’t complete a lunge if he tries it. We’ve done three today since it was working great. Michael has a water bottle and sprays Franz when he tries to attack. Most of the time he lays down and eats lettuce with Jasmine next to him. They are both interested in eachother, Franz is just socially stupid in bunny language. At the end, Franz layed down with his ears up and Jasmine was able to check him out a few times without a reaction from Franz. We’re going with the “wear down” method as the other ones don’t really work right now. Franz is becoming apprehensive at the sight of the water bottle and learning to restrain himself. They both get praise and treats from positive and neutral interactions.

[Bren]

I too am going through a stressful bonding with my two. I understand how horrible you feel like you are letting your buns down in some way….I am glad you are posting because I am posting too, perhaps between us both we can all figure out how to get them bonded! I have to agree with the post that I say about “stress bonding” that perhaps it may make it worse…you should have seen the scuffle and craziness when i tried to force them into a smallers space, the tub….I will NEVER do that again. ugh! I still dont know how nobody including US PEOPLE didn’t get hurt.,

[cactuspancake]

I thought I just posted this… But I’m having an amazing bonding session in my attic. They’re both being civil! No fighting! It’s been over an hour now in the same room! I’ll post the video when i’m done here! Looks like Jasmine has given up trying to be dominant and Franz has quit the hateful face biting. Jasmine presents herself for grooming and at the end of my video Franz licks her back! I think Franz is getting over his insecurities and is thinking maybe Jasmine isn’t just here to kill him.

[mocha200]

Thats great! can’t wait to see the video!

[cactuspancake]

Ok here it is!!!! Franz and Jasmine having dinner together

Sitting in the litterbox TOGETHER

I have a video of their first 20 min too long to upload now. Includes a little grooming XD

[cactuspancake]

Jasmine and Franz sitting near eachother.

[peppypoo]

Looks like things are going pretty smoothly, as compared to your initial descriptions!

I like Jasmine’s little vest, and the spray nozzle hovering menacingly over the bunnies

[cactuspancake]

Posted By peppypoo on 04/04/2011 11:44 PM
Looks like things are going pretty smoothly, as compared to your initial descriptions!

I like Jasmine’s little vest, and the spray nozzle hovering menacingly over the bunnies

XD Franz is the fluffy one with the vest

[cactuspancake]

OMG we have grooming and snuggling from Jasmine with the help of me petting Franz! At the end she tries to mount him and it makes him angry.

This is the 6th hour of my bonding marathon today. Look on my YouTube account for more videos I’ve posted all the good ones.

[LoveChaCha]

She wants to be top rabbit

[cactuspancake]

You guys… I never thought it would get to this point! My boyfriend even said a few days ago  “I think biting jasmine in the face is something he’s never gonna stop” and it has! Today they seem like snugglebunnies!

They are doing the snuggle wars thing where they both put their heads down next to eachother trying to get the other one to groom! Both of them have groomed each other’s faces. I hold my breath when I’ve seen Franz do it (for obvious reasons). Franz’s grooming has been that  “angry grooming” I’ve heard ppl describe. Jasmine, as always, is being a sweetie.

Can they be bonded if one of the two never successfully completes a mount? 

Only Jasmine has attempted mounting, and also she’s the one who honks lol. It makes Franz furious.

How long should I keep them in the attic spare room before I move them? 

The lunging has stopped and Franz just gives dirty looks now on occasion. I feel totally safe leaving them alone now and I get excited to visit them and see how much closer they are!

So the room onlyh has a litter box and a water bowl in it on hard wood flooring. My idea was to make them spend all of their energy on eachother. Also I had this idea that it would be cold and uncomfortable at night, and that would cause them to snuggle, which I think worked! I want to maybe put some things up there now but I’m still a little nervous about putting a hidey space up there because I don’t want jasmine to get trapped if anything goes down. 

Should I put anything else in there, or will that cause issues concerning territory or safety? 

Also today it was beautiful and warm outside so I opened the window which goes almost to the ground. It’s super loud because that room is right at the busy intersection. It was like a stress test. The bunnies totally inched together all frightened looking to analyze the noise! It worked really well. I think that was a good catalyst to this great bonding day!

 

[LoveChaCha]

I would make sure to camp out next to them for a few days to be sure they are 100% cemented

looks like good progress.

[cactuspancake]

I went ahead and put the BB double bed in the room, which is actually jasmine’s…. and Franz is being just a tad posessive. I feel bad cause it’s one of the only things that’s hers. I also put some chew toys and a grass hut with two holes in there.

My idea is, that right now, they don’t want to cuddle in bed. BUT if tomorrow I see them in it together, then I can use the bed as kind of a guage of progress. Things are looking good up there!

[cactuspancake]

So I just went in the room to check on them and Franz was laying in the bunny bed relaxed, and then jasmine hopped up behind him, sniffed, and then mounted him for about 20 seconds! Franz let her! After that he turned around and got really angry but I was able to push him away so she didn’t get hurt.

[Monkeybun]

When I cemented my girls, they had the potty, and the water bowl. thats it. nothing to fight over, nothing to claim. If they wanted to play, they had to play with each other

[cactuspancake]

exactly. they’re at the point where I wanted to spice it up a little. Seems to be working! I caught them playing in the hut together jumping and going in <3

[cactuspancake]

They totally love eachother <3

 

[cactuspancake]

They’ve been lovebirds so I decided to move them from upstairs to a semi neutral territory in my living room fully enclosed by an expen and roof. They are still acting the same! Franz made jasmine move a few times but that’s it. Sharing everything beig cute!

[cactuspancake]

So I think they’re totally bonded! I let them out into the room with myself and Michael watching them very close, and they’ve been doing binkies, kissing, and flopping! Where Franz is laying is this pic is exactly the spot where they had their nastiest fight where Jasmine’s ear was bitten. Look how happy they are now!

[peppypoo]

YAY congrats! Franz and Jasmine look so cute together…he has a fuzzy poofy body, and she has a fuzzy poofy mane!

[LittlePuffyTail]

Congrats! They do look really adorable together.

[jerseygirl]

Oh my gosh I am waaaay behind on these two! I didn’t realise you’d powered ahead in the bonding. It’s looks as if the neutral attic was very beneficial for them.
Are you planning to leave them in this pen now to help secure their bond? When you bring them back into the other living areas there might be little triggers for a small tiff but much less intense. It’s less likely to happen if they spend time together in the pen so they’re totally familiar with each others movements.

They are synfully cute together!!! (New word. I just made it up because I think it suit these two. )

[Author]

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