Few Quick Questions!

[Binkles]

In the next couple of weeks I should be taking Little-Bit out to meet potential mates. I have a few questions that I can’t seem to find the answers to elsewhere:

 

-Little-Bit has been spayed for a year and a half. If she meets an un-neutered male bunny does he have the potential to hurt her?

-If she meets an un-speutered bunny (I still have to call and check, but I think the local shelter and rabbit rescue may not speuter until they’re getting ready to adopt out), will their initial date be accurate in regards to their reactions to one another?

-What is the difference between a scuffle and a fight? I know that they will probably have some kinks to work out, but how do I know the difference between them simply working things out and going for each other’s throats? Where should I step in? I’m afraid I wouldn’t know when it’s dire, because it ALL looks pretty alarming to me! (For reference, is this a fight or a scuffle?:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqmMf4BBmWs )

-At what point does mounting become TOO much? I know that they will need to establish dominence, but is there a point when I should pull them apart?

-(and this one is objective) Can anyone tell if this says anything about Little-Bit’s personality towards other bunnies?: Whenever Little-Bit meets a stranger human, she is initially very interested and comes right up to them after a cautious glance, but then does this abrupt little about-face and runs away a few feet when she sniffs them and finds out they’re an unfamiliar scent. She remains interested from a distance though, and will continue to re-approach every now and then with caution. It usually doesn’t take long for her to warm up to them completely and be comfortable hopping right up to them. (Granted, the humans she’s met do go out of their way to re-assure her that they are not a threat….ie., lying belly-down on the ground and letting her explore them.)

Thanks in advance!!

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

-Little-Bit has been spayed for a year and a half. If she meets an un-neutered male bunny does he have the potential to hurt her?

Yes…desexing does not remove teeth and nails

If she meets an un-speutered bunny (I still have to call and check, but I think the local shelter and rabbit rescue may not speuter until they’re getting ready to adopt out), will their initial date be accurate in regards to their reactions to one another?

Not sure what you mean? Whenever the bun gets fixed=one month minimum period to wait to bond.

-What is the difference between a scuffle and a fight? I know that they will probably have some kinks to work out, but how do I know the difference between them simply working things out and going for each other’s throats? Where should I step in? I’m afraid I wouldn’t know when it’s dire, because it ALL looks pretty alarming to me! (For reference, is this a fight or a scuffle?:

The shelter works should be able to help you; however you’ll just know. A fight will generally result in blood or injuries. A scuffle won’t.

[Barbie]

-Little-Bit has been spayed for a year and a half. If she meets an un-neutered male bunny does he have the potential to hurt her?

I agree with KK on this one. Her date could hurt her, but for the same token, she could hurt him, so it’s important to just be on your guard when introducing anybun to a potential friend.

-If she meets an un-speutered bunny (I still have to call and check, but I think the local shelter and rabbit rescue may not speuter until they’re getting ready to adopt out), will their initial date be accurate in regards to their reactions to one another?

It’s very possible that their interactions will change after the bunny gets fixed. Since altering removes their hormonal drives, their interactions could be different pre-speuter and post-speuter. At least since your bun is already fixed you don’t have to worry about babies! Some people do have to spend some time re-bonding their bunnies after a spay/neuter.

-What is the difference between a scuffle and a fight? I know that they will probably have some kinks to work out, but how do I know the difference between them simply working things out and going for each other’s throats? Where should I step in? I’m afraid I wouldn’t know when it’s dire, because it ALL looks pretty alarming to me! (For reference, is this a fight or a scuffle?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqmMf4BBmWs )

That looked like a scuffle to me. That particular youtube member seems to be pretty experienced with bunnies – they run a rescue and have a “tilted bun” so I think they would have known to pull the bunnies apart if it started to get nasty. Like KK said, you’ll be able to sense a change in the dynamic between the bunnies. If you don’t feel comfortable making that call on your own, or pulling them apart on your own, ask a shelter worker to help. (Long sleeves and some thick gloves could be useful )

-At what point does mounting become TOO much? I know that they will need to establish dominence, but is there a point when I should pull them apart?

Not sure… again, I think it’s something you’ll be able to tell.

-(and this one is objective) Can anyone tell if this says anything about Little-Bit’s personality towards other bunnies?: Whenever Little-Bit meets a stranger human, she is initially very interested and comes right up to them after a cautious glance, but then does this abrupt little about-face and runs away a few feet when she sniffs them and finds out they’re an unfamiliar scent. She remains interested from a distance though, and will continue to re-approach every now and then with caution. It usually doesn’t take long for her to warm up to them completely and be comfortable hopping right up to them. (Granted, the humans she’s met do go out of their way to re-assure her that they are not a threat….ie., lying belly-down on the ground and letting her explore them.)

Leroy does something similar when meeting new people, and even when meeting people he knows but hasn’t seen in awhile, like my boyfriend. He starts out very cautious. It’s funny, he’ll stretch his neck out as far as he can get (the better to see, I guess!) and move his head up and down, like he’s trying to get a reading on the person and then scamper away. (He sometimes does this funny move with a new, funny smelling thing like shows left out or my laundry basket near in the living room on laundry day). He then hides to watch from underneath the dining room table, and then after a while, he’ll come back out and be himself again. HOWEVER, Leroy is very different with bunnies. I took him bunny dating a few weeks ago (I was curious to see how he’d react and I’ve been toying with the idea of a second bun for a few months now) and he was most interested in a couple of the girl buns – sniffing and following them around the room. He wanted nothing to do with a gorgeous NZW (male) – they both thumped the heck out of the floor, lol. You’ll just have to see how it goes on that one, and if one bun strikes out with her, try another!

Good luck!

[Barbie]

Yikes. Sorry for such a long post!

[Beka27]

In regards to telling her personality… I’m going to say that it doesn’t matter how she treats you, or other humans… Other bunnies are an entirely different story. Some take to having a companion immediately and fall in love… others need to be coaxed into loving someone of their own kind. That was Meadow. She adored us, could care less for another bunny. But, it can work out.

I’d really recommend that you try to date at shelters where the buns are already speutered… that will be a big help in determining how she really feels about each one…

Oh… and in regards to scuffle versus fight…

Scuffle is: “I don’t like you.  Don’t look at me like that.”

Fight is: *Punch, punch!*  That’s it!!!  I’M GONNA GET YOU!!!  How dare you do that!!!  *PUNCH, PUNCH!*

Scuffles can be broken up relatively easy… water bottle set on stream, distraction, clapping your hands, separating them momentarily.

Fights are like a death roll, or being in a UFC cage with no referee…

I have seen both, but the fights only happened a few times.  Once you see a fight (and have to break one up), you are always on guard to not let the scuffles progress to fights.  It happens with most bonding adventures, and it should not deter you from going ahead with your plans.  It’s just one little step along the way.

[Beka27]

Posted By Binkles on 12/06/2009 12:55 AM

(Granted, the humans she’s met do go out of their way to re-assure her that they are not a threat….ie., lying belly-down on the ground and letting her explore them.)

 

 

This part made me LOL. 

“Hello, Mrs. Johnson… welcome to my home!  I can take your coat… and if you’d please lay belly-down on the living room rug so my rabbit can sense you’re not a threat…”

 

[Binkles]

Yes…desexing does not remove teeth and nails

Lol. I meant vaginally. :p

It’s very possible that their interactions will change after the bunny gets fixed. Since altering removes their hormonal drives, their interactions could be different pre-speuter and post-speuter. At least since your bun is already fixed you don’t have to worry about babies! Some people do have to spend some time re-bonding their bunnies after a spay/neuter.

That’s what I was looking for, because I don’t think that any of the agencies around here speuter until the animal is getting ready to go home with someone. So with that in mind is taking her on bunny dates even going to do any good at all? Will its personality really be that different once it’s speutered?

This part made me LOL.

“Hello, Mrs. Johnson… welcome to my home! I can take your coat… and if you’d please lay belly-down on the living room rug so my rabbit can sense you’re not a threat…”

Actually…

…that’s exactly how it is. xDDD

[Barbie]

Binkles, i still think bunny dating, even if the potential mates aren’t fixed would be better than nothing. It’s not like neutering will make a shy bunny suddenly the class clown, nor will it take the prima donna out of the diva, nor will it make an antisocial-i-want-nothing-to-do-with-other-buns suddenly want to be everybun’s best friend… ok I think im taking this a bit to far, but you get the point. What I meant by different interactions is that the new bun won’t be driven by hormones after being fixed and will be more “her/him self” and able to focus more on the bonding process. I still think you’ll be able to get a feel for their reactions towards each other and then a month after the spay/neuter you can start bonding.

[jerseygirl]

Will you look at private adoptions too? You never know, someone may have surrendered a neutered buck to the rescues also. Or Little Bit chooses a Doe.

In that video you posted about, there was a bit of circling but it dissipated quickly. In general I would have classed it as a scuffle. The circling or spiralling is something to watch for where a scuffle can quickly turn to a full on fight.
This is from HRS article :http://www.rabbit.org/journal/4-4/tough-bonding.html
Warning Signs
Watch for aggressive behaviors: tail up, ears back, growling, boxing, circling, chasing and biting. If one of these behavior occurs several times in a row; if neither rabbit backs down; if it leads to further aggressive behaviors, it should be interrupted. A spray of water, aimed at the rabbits’ heads, may interrupt a fight about to happen but has no effect once anger is aroused. If a fight advances to a clench, use a towel to separate the rabbits. Or, pour water from a water bowl on them. Using your hands is asking for a skin-breaking bite. Take a break and revise your strategy. To accomplish the match, you must prevent the fight from happening in the first place.

[MooBunnay]

I think everyone else has covered most of the questions. As far an un-fixed vs. fixed bunny, an un-fixed male would not be able to hurt Little Bit in a way that a fixed bunny couldn’t. They just have more hormones so would probably be more likely to mount or be aggressive. One thing I always watch out for in scuffles is that they don’t turn into what my friend calls a “Death Spiral” where the bunnies are both trying to bite each other in the genital area and end up in a big circle, this can get pretty serious pretty quickly, so if you see it going that way you’ll want to use whatever mechanism you are using to break up the fight.

[Binkles]

Ohhh! I see what you guys are referring to as that ‘death spiral’ now! Yes I can see how that could get out of hand quickly. How scary.

Okay, I think I’m beginning to get it a little more now. Basically there’s a difference in dominance-based attacks (mounting/ humping) and aggression-based attacks? (everything else) And that I should try to keep an eye out for and prevent the aggression-based attacks. Am I right? Correct me if I’m wrong.

Evaluate me -is this example a fairly bad date?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaUneXAP6Ko&feature=related . The mounting was good, but the fact that the other one continually boxed and neither backed down was bad. If either rabbit continually boxed like this, I would move on to the next one. Am I correct?

[jerseygirl]

I actually think that was a fairly good 1st bonding session. For a 1st date, as in if these 2 rabbits just met at a shelter, I’d maybe try some others, but as they are in a home, that looked a typical bonding session early on. The brown and white did not seem overly threatened by the pouncing and growling and even attempted dominance over the vocal bun. Was all quite funny to me actually.

I think your inctinct will kick in. The main thing is remain calm and allow Little Bit to be calm before beginning the dates. If you can see she is becoming stressed by the other bunny behaviour, then this will be your guide.

Taking the bunny she “chooses” should hasten things in bonding them but at home when bonding – many situations can arise.  You may see some of behaviours like the video during sessions even though at 1st meeting it was all roses.  It doesn’t mean they’ll not bond, rather that they both need some time to adjust.  In my opinion…

[Binkles]

For a 1st date, as in if these 2 rabbits just met at a shelter, I’d maybe try some others,

Yeah that’s what I meant. :p I realize it wasn’t a TERRIBLE date.

[Elrohwen]

I was just thinking that if she meets un-neutered males, they might actually be friendlier because they want to mate with her. Just a thought. I don’t think they’d necessarily be more aggressive (though she might get aggressive if she doesn’t like the advances that are being made on her 😉 ). However, an un-spayed female might absolutely be more aggressive.

I think everyone else has answered your questions, so good luck!

[BinkyBunny]

I also didn’t think that was a bad first date either. The grey bunny boxed and growled as a warning to say “Don’t even think about it” when the brown and white one asked to be groomed, and then the brown and white one figured he better tell the grey one who really is boss and mounted the grey one. The grey one didn’t get too worked up about being mounted. It seemed like more of a warning and working out who’s boss rather than fighting for dominance. It wasn’t love at first sight or anything, and if this did happen with your bunny, you could move on to the next to see if a match that was less confrontational came along, but I wouldn’t rule this type of interaction out as a failure either. ( I recommend seeing a few even if there is good interaction with one).

When Jack went bunny dating, he had a young spunky gal who sprayed him and ran around him very excited. She loved to cuddle with him, but as soon as he tried to mount her, she was spraying and ready to pounce. She was clearly much too much for Jack’s aging bunny self. Then there was a beautiful black bunny who went straight for Jack…in a bad way – ears back, tail up. She wanted him dead right away. Then there was Vivian who Jack wanted to mount, she ran, he chased, they groomed just slighly, but she put up with his rude behavior the best. Granted later, bonding took a longer time due to his constant mounting and health issues, but the other two would have been even more of a nightmare. Viv was the most tolerant.

I was also a nervous wreck and was quick to react because of what I had been through with Rucy and Bailey, and I had to be reminded to settle down, react calmly and slowly and not be such a freakazoid. Okay, those weren’t Marcy’s (the rescue’s owner) actual words – she just said it much nicer. She was very calm and kept me calm, and that REALLY helped. So I hope you have a good bonder at the place you are going to as that will help, and just keep calm yourself. It’s easy to get anxious when your own precious bunny even gets so much as a stink eye from another bunny. Keeping calm – – That was my own biggest challenge, but yet I think it is one of the best pieces of advice to follow.

Sending out bonding vibes and peace vibes to you.

Keep us updated.

[Binkles]

That’s exactly the way I am, BB. I didn’t used to be like that, but ever since Binkles had her accident I’ve let myself get way out of hand with the worrying and anxiety. I may be wrong, but I have a gut feeling that the rescue isn’t very well versed in bonding. We’re a really small area and frankly I’m surprised we even have a rabbit rescue. It has to be a calling because I can’t guess that she actually ever gets very many adopters since she’s so low-profile.

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