Female post-spay not eating, grinding teeth

[Jessica6829]

Hi everyone. My rabbit Rue was just spayed yesterday and she’s been having a rough go of it. I dropped her off at the vet at 7:30am and picked her up at 5pm. Based on the vet’s call, I think her surgery was around 2pm. She is a stasis prone bun and I am worried about her not eating. I’ve offered her a variety of greens, various hays, treats, etc. and she wants nothing to do with any of it. She seems to be in quite a great deal of pain, sitting listlessly, pressing her belly, squinting her eyes, grinding her teeth. The vet gave me pain meds (1ml per 24 hrs of Metacam) and I have buprenorphine on hand for her stasis episodes too. I gave her a dose of metacam last night as instructed and a dose of buprenorphine after calling the emergency vet about her teeth grinding. I have been force feeding her, but I haven’t been able to get much in her, probably only about 1 2/3 tbsp (pre-mix measurement) since 8pm last night and she is fighting it. My husband has been helping hold Rue to feed her because I can’t force feed her on my own, but he’s at work today. I have a call in to my vet, but i’m just wondering if anyone has had an experience like this? Is there anything else I can/should be doing?

[DanaNM]

Poor baby 🙁

Keep syringe feeding and offering lots of types of greens. It’s good you gave the buprenorphine, I would ask if you can give more metacam as well. For syringe feeding on your own, I like to put the bun on a towel on the table. You can wrap her in the towel like a burrito if she’s squirming a lot. I like to use a “C-grip” with my left hand (I’m right handed), so I’m holding my thumb behind the ears and my fingers under the jaw, then aim the syringe into her mouth with my R hand. It’s tough but take a deep breath and be persistent. Sometimes using smaller syringes helps and gets them to swallow more (I like to pre-fill a bunch of 1 mL syringes, using a larger syringe to fill them from the back).

Keep her warm (you can provide a warm water bottle wrapped in a towel for her to snuggle) and keep her area as dark and quiet as possible. The first day or two is usually the hardest so just keep up the supportive care as best you can, you got this!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bam]

Dana has covered pretty much everything. Keeping her warm is super-important, rabbits are prone to hypothermia post surgery.

Great that you gave her the buprenorphin!

As for metacam, if you have dog strenght metacam (1.5 mg/ml), 1 ml is ok for a normal sized (4 lb) bun, but if it’s cat strenght (0.5 mg/ml), 1 ml is under the lowest recommended dose (Medirabbit). You can divide the daily dose up into two doses and give them 12 hours apart, that works better for some buns.

I use the same C-grip that Dana describes, but I hold the bun in my lap.

It is a good thing, albeit impractical for you, that she fights her CC. A feisty bun has strenght.

Have you seen any pee and/or poop?

 

[Jessica6829]

No poop yet that I know of but she has been at the vet all day for Stasis treatment (fluids, monitoring, force feeding, and cisapride). I haven’t heard anything from the vet yet but I’m hoping the treatment will help her turn the corner. Albeit‘a not ideal for her to be treated at the vet, given my sleep deprivation and lack of skill with solo force feeding I felt it was in her best interests to be cared for by the professionals. I’m hoping she’s pooping by the time I pick her up and that maybe she’ll eat on her own. This is hugely stressful and I really appreciate the support!

[Jessica6829]

So I just got an update from the vet that she still isn’t eating on her own nor has she produced and poop. They said she is grooming herself and seems more alert but they’re gonna keep her for a couple more hours until they close. Now I’m a bit more worried than I was before. Is this normal? It’s been 24 hours since her surgery and since I brought her home. Can she recover from this?

[DanaNM]

Grooming herself is a really good sign, buns that feel really awful don’t groom. If she hadn’t eaten anything substantial since before her surgery it may take time to produce some poops, and sometimes buns in stasis take a while to produce poops. The best you can do is keep up the supportive care (fluids, syringe feeding, keeping her warm, etc). You mentioned she’s stasis prone so it’s good she’s getting treatment for that. I bet she will feel better once she’s home, but sometimes stasis recovery can be really slow, so try not to panic if you don’t see poops right away (I know it’s really hard not to). I had a bun in stasis that wouldn’t poop at the vet but finally did once I brought him home.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Jessica6829]

Oh that’s good to hear that grooming is good. I know Stasis can take a bit to get through and treatment might take some time and patience has never been my strong suit. I read somewhere that it can take 24-48 hours for a rabbit to start producing poops after motility meds for Stasis. I have no idea if that’s true but I’m going to try and keep that in mind. I’m pretty much in a perpetual state of panic with this rabbit but I’m gonna try and stay calm and just keep up the feedings. What goes in must come out at some point I hope.

[Jessica6829]

Update: Rue is home from the vet but they want her back tomorrow for the same treatment. Upon returning home just now I realized that the vet had put the metacam and the cisapride in the wrong medication bottles so last night when I thought I was giving her a dose of metacam I was giving her a dose of cisapride so she didn’t have ANY pain meds last night until I called the emergency vet and they said to give her the Buprenorphine. I’m so mad! It was an honest mistake from when I picked up the meds but has caused so much pain for my bun. Hopefully now though she’ll be pain free and we can turn things around.

[Bam]

That would explain why she wasnt feeling at all well, if she hadnt had any pain meds!

It can absolutely take 24-48 hours, sometimes even longer, before you get poop after a bout of not eating much. So it is important to keep feeding her, even if she doesnt appreciate it. She will forgive you once this is over.

[DanaNM]

Oh gosh! That does explain things why she was so uncomfortable. How did she do overnight?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Jessica6829]

We have poop! And she ate a couple strands of hay on her own too but literally just like 2. She’s pooped twice but she’s still not really eating yet so I’m going to take her back to the vet today for more monitoring, fluids, and hand feeding since they are feeding her every hour. Although I have to say seeing her pick up and eat just those 2 strands of hay was such a relief. I did figure out how to hand feed on my own last night so I’m proud of myself for that but it takes me a long time. She is definitely still uncomfortable and unhappy so I’m not sure if that is her gut or the spay but I’m hoping she’s rounding the corner.

[DanaNM]

Amazing news! Those first strands of hay are always such a huge relief!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bam]

Wonderful 😃

Rabbits can really feel quite out of it post surgery, especially if they dont get proper pain management. My current foster, a young male, got way too little pain meds after his neuter last month, I had to give him an additional dose in the middle of the night. After that he quickly started to recover and after just a few hours he was nibbling on some hay (best sound there is!).

[Jessica6829]

Yes pain management has seemed to be the trick with Rue not just for her spay but for all he Stasis bouts too. She is definitely more alert this morning and has more personality. Not herself yet and back at the vet for another day of feeding since she’s still not eating enough on her own. In either of your experience how long does it take for eating habits to return after a spay/neuter? I know it can take awhile and I’m not expecting normalcy anytime soon, more just wondering when I can stop worrying about force feeding.

[Bam]

I’m glad she’s doing so much better!

It’s really not possible to say how long it takes until the bun gets back to normal eating habits. My girl bun started eating like an hour after she came home from her spay, but I still gave her about 10-15 ml (mixed volume) CC per day for 3 days. She was sent home with pain meds (meloxicam) for 5 days, I stuck to that plan.

I think you will know, because buns vastly prefer to eat by themselves over being syringe fed, they dont get “spoilt” by being syringe fed. Keep an eye on poop, especially amount. They can be irregular in shape, consistency and color for two weeks after she’s begun eating ok, which is normal.

 

[Jessica6829]

That helps a lot just to know other’s experiences! Thank you! I know every bunny’s different but just hearing what other people have been through help me gauge what I’m going through. She’s had about 50 poops of varying sizes throughout the night and morning. I was prepared for the abnormal shapes and sizes. I’m just hoping after today that she’ll be on the mend feeding wise. I am fine feeding her a few times a day with CC but having to feed her full time is just not something I’m efficient enough at this stage to do. The vet is doing 10-20ml every hour or two and for me to do that on my own just isn’t possible. By the time I get everything all mixed and set up and Rue all wrapped in her bunny burrito it’s already taken me 15 min and then the actual feeding takes me another 20 especially if my husband isn’t helping. I also don’t want to stress her too much. I am quite hopeful now though that she will begin to eat on her own slowly but surely especially now that her pain is under control and she’s on the proper meds. I can’t help but wonder if things would’ve been different if we had her pain relief sorted out properly from the beginning…

[Bam]

50 poops is not bad!

You shouldnt need to syringe feed her full time now when she seems to be on the mend. I had a bun that needed full time feeding for quite some time, he got about 90-100 ml CC (mixed volume) per day, divided into 4-5 meals. It does get a lot easier with practice both for the caretaker and the bun, but I definitely agree it’s messy and frustrating and time-consuming until you and your bun have got the routine really down. Hopefully Rue will be eating fine on her own long before that happens!

[DanaNM]

Agree with Bam that she sounds like she is really on the mend, so you likely won’t need to syringe feed as often soon!

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Jessica6829]

Update #2: Rue is home from and she’s eating on her own still not a normal amount yet but more than a few sprigs of hay!!! She seems to be mostly grazing and is very jumpy right now I think because of all the handling from force feeding. Lots of small poops too and I’m so grateful to see it. I’m wondering if I can step down the force feeding at this point since she is eating some on her own? I feel like the stress of this whole ordeal has been a lot for her and a big part of why she’s eating now is because we’re leaving her alone. My vet wasn’t in when I picked her up today (and is off tomorrow) and the vet tech seemed to think she’d need another day of hospital force feeding. I’m hesitant to disrupt her again although I’d rather it be them doing the force feeding than me.

[Jessica6829]

So since my last post Rue seems to have backslid this morning. She was eating a bit more on her own last night but now isn’t eating anything. She’s pressing her belly and grinding her teeth a bit right now and I don’t know what’s going on. Her incision looks good (I think) and she’s going back to the vet today for more feeding. Is this Stasis? The spay? Both? She’s loaded up on pain killers and I can’t tell what’s causing her pain. I don’t want to keep stressing her out by continually taking her to the vet but I don’t know what else to do. Could this be something else? Could I have damaged something with all the handling I’ve had to do? Ugh this is just causing me so much stress. I don’t know how to get her out of it!

[Bam]

It could be sth as simple as gas. If you have simethicone baby gas drops, you can try giving that, it’s harmless. Gas is not at all  uncommon when a bun hasnt been eating like normal.

[Jessica6829]

My first thought was gas but when I gently felt her belly it didn’t feel gassy nor did she have the gas gurgles. I did give her some simethicone but that didn’t seem to make too much of a difference. She is back at the vet now for feeding again. I’m really just hoping this is the last day. I am exhausted and it is so heartbreaking watching her be so sad and stressed and in pain.

[DanaNM]

If possible, I would ask the vet if you can feed her at home. I agree she does need more care until she is fully “back online”, but I also agree that constant trips to the vet can slow recovery. It sounds more like stasis at this point, but she is still healing internally as well. You can also ask them about giving sub-q fluids at home. This is often very beneficial for stasis recovery as well.

I would ask them if they can show you their techniques for feeding, and ask if you can try to feed her at home for a day and see how it goes. Stasis can have a lot of ups and downs in recovery, so it’s important to be patient, gentle, and persistent with the supportive care.

What are her dosages of meloxicam and cisapride?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Jessica6829]

I was thinking the same thing about feeding her at home too which is what I think I’m going to try tomorrow if she’s still not back “online”.

She’s on 1ml of metacam every 24 hours (1.5 mg/ml), .1 ml of Buprenorphine (.3mg/ml) every 6-8 hrs, and .1 (10mg/ml) of cisapride every 8 hrs. She weighs about 2 kg. The vet said I can give an extra dose of Buprenorphine if she seems super painful.

I might ask the vet to give her fluids before I take her home tonight that way they’re on board for tomorrow if I keep her at home and that’s one less thing I have to do on my own tomorrow. I do have sub-q fluids at home already for Stasis episodes but I definitely am not experienced enough to do that without my husband’s help.

The vet has been recommending she come in which is the only reason I have kept bringing her in. Part of me thinks she might just need to be left alone for a bit to readjust since she’s pretty much been locked in a tiny part of her cage or at the vet for the past 4 days.

Edit: Also as a side question, she has some birch logs as part of a play structure in her area right now and she is trying to eat the bark which she never does normally and I’ve only ever seen her try to do it once before when she was having a Stasis episode. Do you think it’s ok for me to let her eat that? Or should I remove the platform from her area?

[DanaNM]

I think eating the bark is fine, she may be craving fiber, which is what the bark has!

Metacam is metabolized quickly in rabbits, so it’s often better to dose twice a day. Buprenorphine is a good pain med for acute and serious pain, but it can cause GI slowing (here’s a study on it https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7974813/#:~:text=Buprenorphine%20prolonged%20gastrointestinal%20(GI)%20transit,water%20intake%20in%20male%20rabbits.&text=These%20established%20side%20effects%20of,condition%20known%20as%20GI%20stasis.) , so I’m slightly wondering if getting it that many times per day could actually be hindering her recovery a bit.

Since she is past the first couple days of the spay recovery, I would ask your vet if they would consider switching her to twice per day metacam and reduce or eliminate the buprenorphine for this phase of her recovery.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Jessica6829]

Oh you know I hadn’t even thought of dosing the metacam twice a day! Now that I think about it, I’m pretty sure the vet said I can break her does up into 2 but honestly I’ve been so sleep deprived I completely forgot. Thank you so much for that advice! I will try that.

I also read that study about Buprenorphine as has my vet who also is hesitant to give Buprenorphine but due to her being in such acute pain and with the mix up of the pain meds, she opted to go that route to get her pain under control as the pain seemed to be more of an issue than the GI slowing with the meds. She’s only had the Buprenorphine regularly for about 2 days. My vet also said she attended a rabbit conference recently (within the last 6 months) about treating GI issues and they strongly recommended Buprenorphine over metacam for pain. I will ask my vet about discontinuing the Buprenorphine though when she is back in the office tomorrow since I agree that she probably doesn’t need to be on both pain killers at this stage.

Thanks also for your opinion about the bark. I won’t worry too much about it.

I’m wondering if all the handling from the feedings and getting her to and from the vet, etc. and the lack of pain meds on the first night could also have caused the development of adhesions from the spay? I know that’s a possible complication but I really don’t know the likelihood of that occurring.

[DanaNM]

Interesting about buprenorphine! I do think the benefits usually outweigh the risks even with some risk of GI slowing (my senior bun is currently on daily tramadol for arthritis pain which has similar concerns as it’s also an opioid), but was just thinking about all possible contributing factors.

Not sure about adhesions. I don’t think I would worry about that just yet as you have been seeing steady improvements on average and she has a history of stasis.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bam]

I too think you shouldnt start worrying about adhesions just yet. According to my very bunny savvy vet, adhesions mostly occur if the spaying vet touches/messes with the intestines during the spay surgery. Adhesions typically do not manifest right after the spay procedure,  they require some time to form.

The buprenorphine study is very encouraging, since it suggests that spay complications and slow healing could simply be due to inadequate post-spay pain relief. Rabbits are notoriously sensitive to pain, to the point where they can just “give up” and perish. A bun friend once said rabbits are like “Oh it seems I’ve a bit of a stomach ache, I’d better just curl up and die”.

Luckily our house buns have hooms that are there to say “Forget it. You can die in your own spare time, but not on my watch, if I can help it”.

[DanaNM]

“Oh it seems I’ve a bit of a stomach ache, I’d better just curl up and die”

LOL!!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Jessica6829]

Oh that’s good to know about the adhesions! I read about complications previous to Rue’s surgery just to be prepared since Rue is a notoriously finicky bunny but I didn’t quite understand what caused adhesions to form.

And wow so true what your friend said Bam! That made me chuckle.

I am happy to report that last night and today Rue seems to be back to her old self. She’s eating on her own now and her poops are getting bigger and bigger. I’m trying not to force feed today so that she can destress a bit plus she ate a bit of critical care straight from the bowl which is encouraging. She’s also got some of her spunk back which is so nice to see. We’ve discontinued the Buprenorphine since she doesn’t need it anymore and are keeping the cisapride and metacam going for the next couple days so that she continues to recover. Thank you Bam and Dana for all you help, input, and kind words! I struggle a lot with anxiety and process that by talking which isn’t the best combo when you have a bun as a pet! Thank you for understanding and talking me through everything. It really and truly helped more than I can express.

 

 

[DanaNM]

Excellent news! So happy to hear she’s turned the corner. 😀 And we are very happy to help!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bam]

We truly are so happy to help, as Dana says  We’d love to hear how she fares!

[Jessica6829]

So Rue seems to be on the mend. She’s eating well and slowly getting her personality back. However when I went to check her incision last night I noticed some redness. I think it’s always kinda looked like this but I’m not sure since she’s been at the vet so frequently and they’ve been telling me it looks good. I have a couple pictures that aren’t the best but when I try to upload them it says I’m not allowed to add images to this post. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. I don’t want to drag her back to the vet yet again when she’s just starting to get back to herself.

[Jessica6829]

I was also wondering if it’s normal for her appetite to kind of ebb and flow so to speak? She was eating really well yesterday, but today doesn’t seem to be eating as well. She’s still munching on hay here and there but definitely not as enthusiastically as yesterday. She also ate most her greens yesterday, but today isn’t as interested. She at 2 small pieces of arugula and that was it and has no interest in the rest of it. Her poops looked really good when I got up this morning. Growing in size and number but now I’m concerned they won’t stay that way and I haven’t seen her poop since. Although I did just see her eat some cecotropes. There have been some gas gurgles this morning and I’ve given her some simethicone.

[DanaNM]

Redness is OK and normal with healing (the body is sending more blood to that area to help repair).

As for her appetite, it sounds like a bit of gas. I think simethicone  was a good move, and you could give her some pain meds if you any left. Encouraging gentle movement can also help. One of my buns used to get gassy from arugula, even though most of my buns have never had a problem with it, so maybe try another green to see if that could be the culprit?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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