Excessively mounting

[a llama]

Hello, I am the owner of two male rabbits named Oreo and Ben, both fixed. I have been attempting to bond them for a little over a week with no serious problem except for the fact that Oreo won’t stop mounting, persisting for even for hours at a time. Aggression between the two rabbits have been pretty minimal so far, with only a few fights during the first and second bonding sessions. Other than that, there have been minor signs of aggression like thumping, grunting, and the occasional nip here and there. I have already attempted to find someone on this forum with a similar problem to mine, but I have had no success leading me to create this topic in the first place. 

For how the actual bonding process between Oreo and Ben goes, I start off by putting them both in a neutral territory, in this case being an empty room. From what I have experienced so far, the first encounter of their session will always be either a small fight or Ben submissively allowing Oreo to mount him. All that happens beyond their first encounter is basically a big game of tag: Oreo continues to mount Ben who then keeps running away from Oreo until the point where he is too tired to keep running. When Ben gains enough energy, he will again run away from Oreo who keeps trying to mount him. This cycle continues for hours. It has been the same for the entirety of this week and I am beginning to worry whether or not this cycle will change. I am aware that bonding different pairs of rabbits can take up to several months, that being said I am just here to see if anyone has any advice for how to get around this mounting problem if it doesn’t go away. One thing to keep in mind is that I’m not sure if Oreo still has hormones or not from when he was neutered about 2 weeks ago. The vet told me that a week would be enough for his hormones to dissipate, but most sources I have seen online claim that it usually takes 3 weeks or more, I’m not sure who to trust. 

Also, Oreo will take a few breaks from mounting when he gets tired, when this happens he will usually find a good spot and flop over, even if that spot is laying right next to Ben. Finally, I have noticed a strange behavior from Oreo: While he is adjusting himself to find a comfortable mounting position, he will put his head in Ben’s fur several times in many different spots of Ben’s body, sometimes this will be on Ben’s face near his eyes where it always seems like Oreo is grooming him. I’m not sure if this behavior is in fact grooming or not, as the fur blocks the view of Oreo’s mouth. Anyway, any help is greatly appreciated.

[Azerane]

Hi there, I don’t have a lot of advice to give but I will say that 2 weeks is not enough for the hormones to dissipate. There was one female bun on another forum who was extremely hormonal after her spay for roughly 6-8 months after! That is an unusual case, but here we recommend at least 4 weeks, though 6 weeks is recommended as the ideal time for hormones to stop affecting the bonding process. Of course some may be fine earlier, but in terms of recommendations I prefer to err on the side of caution

I’d give them a bit of space and allow more time for the hormones to die down, because it’s likely they are interfering with the process

[Sirius&Luna]

‘Only a few fights’ is not ok. You should be intervening before any fights happen at all. If you let them fight, you’re teaching them that it’s ok to fight, and that fighting is what they do when they see each other.

If Ben is consistently running away from Oreo mounting him until he runs out of energy, he is clearly distressed and you need to stop the behaviour.

When bonding, bunnies should not be allowed to fight, bite, face hump, chase, or box.

They should be allowed to nip, and hump for up to 5 seconds if the bottom bunny ISN’T distressed by it.

They need more time to allow hormones to drain, and when you start bonding again, you need to intervene far more to stop negative behaviour.

I would suggest trying in a smaller space so that chasing can’t happen.

[a llama]

I apologize for the lack of information, but of course I will stop their fights when necessary. Also, I started to allow them to chase each other in an empty room because of a suggestion I saw on the forum and because the same pattern was repeating while they were bonding in a small exercise pen. It wasn’t until recently that I saw that it was beneficial to limit extended mounting times, but I have been closely watching ever since I had been informed.

[sarahthegemini]

You definitely need to work with shorter sessions. Long sessions can work (I marathon bonded my two) but in your case, it’s just not. Whilst humping/mounting is essential for figuring out the hierarchy, it shouldn’t be a relentless quest that causes stress for the humped bun.

In all honesty I think you should stop bonding completely. You need to wait a month for hormones to disipate, you need to pre bond for a month and then start actual sessions. You seem to have skipped a lot and dove straight in to super long sessions without enough prep. Not to mention, the more they fight, the less likely that they will ever bond.

[a llama]

As I am new to having pet rabbits, I am definitely open to stop bonding for a while. That being said, I do have a few questions. First off, what kind of preparation do you think I should be doing? Also, what sort of “general guideline” should I be aware of to determine when it it is time to stop a bonding session?

[Sirius&Luna]

The best thing to do is swap the two rabbits between cages every other day. This gets them used to the smell of each other, and rids them of the idea that ‘this space is mine’. You should do this for a month or so before the actual introduction. They will probably be angry at first, but hopefully by the end of the month, won’t be fussed at all.

As far as dates – start off short. It’s always best to end on a good note. It sometimes feels counterproductive to end a bonding session when they’re getting on really well, but it’s a really good association for them to make. If you only ever split them up when they start to fight, then they realise they need to fight if they want to be away from each other.

Try starting dates with them squished next to each other and you petting them for 5 minutes. Once they’re nice and calm, move away and see how they react. If it looks like they might fight/hump/bite, then squish them back together and pet again, then stop the session. Lots of small sessions is the best way to get them used to each other. Ben especially needs to learn that Oreo is not a threat to him.

When I first started bonding my rabbits I would literally put them together for two minutes a few times an evening, then separate before they had a chance to get annoyed with each other. They never had a fight in all the time that I was bonding them because I intervened if they looked like they were getting grumpy, and they learned to trust each other.

[Deleted User]

Preparation is basically prebonding. You need to switch their things between their cages to get them used to each others’ scents. You should also be switching them between their enclosures as well. What might also help a lot is to put a stuffie in each of their cages and let them both mark their scent on it, then switch it to the other bunny’s cage. This will help you see what their reactions will be when they meet face to face again.

In general you want to end a bonding session on a positive/neutral tone. So If they’ve been ignoring each other for 10 minutes, stop it there. If they’ve been cuddling for 10 minutes, stop it there. You never want to end it on negative tone, so no fights, fur pulling, nipping, or chasing. Start out with short 10 minute sessions and gradually increase the length based on their behaviors. Go 3-4 days of ending on a positive tone for 10 minutes, then move up to 20 minutes. It’s going to require a lot of patience.

[a llama]

Alright, thanks everyone for all the help! I’ll be considering all your suggestions and paying closer attention to a good preparation.

[jerseygirl]

I just wanted to address your question about the post neuter period. With some rabbits, they’ll act even more hormonal post-neuter for a while. For some, it can take a number of weeks for things to settle. This may be some of what you are experiencing with Oreo, as mentioned. I wonder if the vet recommended to only wait a week as they were referring to when he would be healed – but not so much in regards to hormones?

Having the buns share a meal can be a good interim step – provided there is no food aggression. They might not be ready for eating in a communal space yet, but just popping their food down each side of pen can have the safely “together” while they eat.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By a llama on 1/29/2018 8:15 AM

As I am new to having pet rabbits, I am definitely open to stop bonding for a while. That being said, I do have a few questions. First off, what kind of preparation do you think I should be doing? Also, what sort of “general guideline” should I be aware of to determine when it it is time to stop a bonding session?

I think that’s wise. When you do start up the bonding sessions, another pro to starting off short is that you haven’t got to watch them (excuse the phrase) like a hawk for hours at a time. Ten minutes or so and then you can put them back and take a deep breath. Bonding is incredibly stressful, so do what you have too to make it easier on you and the buns! 

As already noted, by prep I just meant lots of pre bonding. So switching items between them to get them accustomed to each other’s scent. As I mentioned, I marathon bonded my two so never had to stop a bonding session as such but I would say, when it’s going well, stop it there and then. It sounds counter intuitive and it’s human nature to think “this it’s going well, I’ll carry on” but it’s really important to not get too cocky so  to speak and stop before any issues arise. Even if you think they could go another half hour, stop, take a breather and then do another session later in the day. Also, try not to get too worked up. It’s totally normal to go one step forward and two steps back at times but you’ll get here

[Author]

Messages