Elder bun starts making noise

[mia]

My 14yo boy started making occasional noise. First time was when he was brought out of the carrier at the vet. It was a singular deep honk; he made it like 3 times during the visit and my vet attributed it to him not liking being touched in a dime sized area where his friend had barbered him. Nothing happened for over a month.

Now I hear it when I pick him up, even though I’m not remotely touching that area, and it’s healing / covered with fur. He seems to consistently make at least one noise when picked up, when held or when he’s on counter. He’s been increasingly fearful of being picked up since a year ago already. Occasionally, I’d also hear a… squeak or maybe a strange sneeze (not a high pitch, more like when human stomach gurgles, just one noise) when just sitting around? I’ve seen a couple times when he made noise but he seems to be breathing hard. The problem is, these have been extremely occasional, like once a day and I’m with him nearly 24/7. It’s really freaking me out since he’s always been silent his entire life; he doesn’t even chew, dig, tear things to make noise.

If everything else seems fine/hasn’t changed (he has some known issues), is this something to press? Regular appointments are usually one month out but there are emergency/drop off appointments if they deem necessary. And is there anything else to say about it? I feel like just saying he makes noise is not a big deal, especially so infrequent.

[LBJ10]

My bun is a higher pitched grunter. He sounds like a little pig. He will let out a grunt when he’s very displeased… like if I’m picking him up.

Perhaps, in your bunny’s old age, he has decided to be more vocal about his displeasure. If he has arthritis, it may be painful when he is picked up.

[Bam]

I assume your vet has listened to his lungs.

One of my buns got pneumonia. He made a squeaky/quacky sound when he was excited, esp for food. He was old and had never been a vocal bun at all. He had chest x-rays (no sedation needed bc the vet was very good with rabbits), the x rays showed he had (a rather mild case of) pneumonia. He got two weeks on Baytril and made a full recovery.

Some buns are vocal though, but its a bit of an observandum that your bun hasn’t been until now.

If you have a good vet that you trust, I’d bring it up with them.

 

 

[mia]

Thank you.

I noticed all buns are suddenly lightly sneezing after Elder Bun started his squeak. So maybe the squeak from Elder Bun is related since he isn’t sneezing per se but makes the motions and his nose is wet.

*sighs* going to the vet every month these days…

[Bam]

It is difficult to care for elder buns, lots of stuff that wouldn’t be a problem for younger buns can be a very big deal for an elderbun. 14 is an admirable age, and it of course means he’s more susceptible to just about everything.

I dont know how your vet does things, but it’d be good if you could discuss with them. Maybe they’d prescribe a course of antibiotics without a chest x-ray.

[LBJ10]

Well it sounds like you’re onto something at least. I agree. Vets will often prescribe an antibiotic without extensive tests.

[mia]

😥 😥 😥

He’s critical now. They say he has throat obstruction or something (can’t tell exactly what).

I attempted to cut his nails and the stress pushed him over.

😥 😥 😥

[Bam]

I’m very sorry.

You didnt cause this by trying to clip his nails. Something was going on. Difficulty swallowing is a very common problem in both very old buns and very old humans and he is very, very old. It can be sudden onset (like from a vascular stroke) or it can just come creeping as the muscles needed for swallowing get weaker and less good at cooperating with each other.

You are an amazing bun mom. This is absolutely not sth you caused, in any way.

 

 

[mia]

Ooops not throat (I haven’t slept for a couple days nor really ate).  It’s a breathing problem. Somewhere past the nose but where they cant really see because it’s too hard/small and you have to go up and over?

[LBJ10]

It could be that a mucus plug became dislodged and made it’s way to a spot where it is partially obstructing his airway. They could try to flush it, but this would be stressful too. Would using a nebulizer help soften things?

[Bam]

It is very difficult to see inside those tiny structures. It takes specisl equipment that’s not standard. LBJs suggestion of a nebulizer sounds like sth worth exploring. There are handheld devices. (You can also do a “steam chamber” of a carrier or box but that sounds a lot more stressful.)

Rabbits can get rhinoliths in their upper airways. That’s tiny calcium “stones”. Their surface can be rough and perfect for bacterial colonization. Symptoms are as a rule mainly very runny nose/eyes that doesnt resolve with prolonged antibiotic treatment, and he doesnt seem to have that.

 

[mia]

Yes, I was told there are possibilities but he was too unstable for them (CT, another vet with the tiny scope, etc), older, plus he’s tiny <2lbs.

He is on nebulizer, antibiotics, nose drops, and opioid (less breathing noise when he’s calmer though not sure this is actually doing much for him), and his normal arthritis meds of gabapentin and meloxicam. He has chronic runny eyes past few years and he does have tiny bit of runny nose with this incident but it’s clear and so little they couldn’t find any to culture. Can’t one see those stones in xray? They only saw a thickened palate and a can’t really tell possible something.

I trust my vets have really thought through things. I only wonder how to make him more comfortable at home. I have to hold him to give him meds which stresses him out. He has friends but they are young, annoying, getting jealous he gets lots of treats, attention, etc. So conflicted if friends are better or not.

He’s doing a little better now though! Eating on his  own and pooping solids; he was only nibbling and runny poo on emergency day.

[Bam]

I’m glad his doing better!

Rhinoliths could be seen on a CT probably on an x-ray too bc they’re mineralized, but his symptoms dont really fit, since he has clear snot and very little of it. The only remedy for rhinoliths is currently surgery to remove the stones, and he wouldn’t be a good candidate for that.

I think what you’re doing is pretty much what you can do. I think the opioids are probably helpful bc he needs to be calm. He still needs a bit of exercise though, he shbut nothing stressful.

It could be too much for him to have to interact directly with the younger, more boisterous crowd, but it’s probably good for him to be near them. Rabbits tend to feel safer when there are other rabbits around (there are exeptions). So maybe if you could keep them separate but so he can still see and hear and smell them? If he gets upset with being separated from them I think you’ll notice quickly.

 

[mia]

*sighs*

So bun had a scare a week or so ago and stopped eating but he’s eating now, likely because we adjusted his opioid dosage. Not great/eating everything but he’s sustaining on vegetables and hay. Will have additional recovery food to try to see if he’ll eat them more. I’m hoping if he eats more, he’ll build his immune system more.

The breathing issue… There’s been ups and downs and I think the reason he’s something improving is not really real improvement, but just less stress. Additionally, when it gets colder, I’ve noticed the breathing noise gets worse – understandable as passages are probably slightly more narrow when it’s colder/not as relaxed as warmer and cold air being more irritating. My vets seem out of ideas since there doesn’t seem like much more diagnostics for him at his condition; we have seen everyone at the practice and they have consulted others too.

I’d really like to help bun keep fighting as he’s trying so hard and in good spirits considering. I’m thinking of asking if there’s different antibiotics to try but I’m not sure what else to ask for. He’s on baytril and had a pen g shot a week ago ish. The problem is also, when I take him in, understandably, he’s more stressed so his breathing gets worse (or I’d take him in for more pen g shots, he maybe did a bit better afterwards? maybe???). 7 yrs ago or so I took him to one of the best university hospitals for emergency surgery but I don’t think he can make that drive and I had asked my vets if that’d be helpful/they’d have any additional resources and didn’t think there’d be much more.

[Bam]

I think you’re doing a great job. Your vets seem to be taking his case seriously. It’s hard bc they don’t understand exactly what it’s all about -which isn’t rare in medicine, but it obv makes choice of treatment difficult. I’m glad he seems to be tolerating Baytril and Pen G well. Many vets do cultures to find the right antibiotics, but that’s not a perfect method either.

Airways do get tighter when it’s cold, I had asthma as a kid and it always got worse when it was cold.

I hope he got a little bit better after the Pen G shot. How often does he get those? Sometimes it takes a rather long time to see improvement.

 

 

[mia]

It’s all him; he’s a fighter! He’s almost back to eating like normal; just started eating some treats again.

 

He only got the one Pen G shot at the office last week. There was no follow-up / next steps; he was in really bad shape since he wasn’t eating in additional to the breathing thing. I’ve never had anybun take the shot so I know nothing about it. I see online there’s two kinds; I have no idea which he got. Was only told that sometimes there’s reactions so they wanted to make sure I was ok with it and that maybe it’ll give him an extra boost for his system.

He has no snot to share for a culture! Sometimes he sounds extremely snotty, especially after nebulizing two different meds, but no snot ever appears, just normal clear very slight wetness.

[Bam]

Oh lovely that he’s eating again!

It’s good there’s clear snot and not a lot of it.

Pen G is sometimes given in combo with other abx for persistent “bunny colds”, and it’s the gold standard treatment for bunny syphilis (not the same syphilis hooms get), but that would’ve been a whole series of shots.

[mia]

He actually had syphilis before I adopted him! It’s a strange tale because he was never treated while with me, nor at the two shelters he went through (just went through his shelter intakes… never had a bun with so many “abnormal” in his checkup -_-). He was found as a stray so someone treated him and then abandoned him? He’s always been low energy compared to other buns and docile so no way he ran away and couldn’t be caught.

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