Do your buns bite when you change the litterbox?

[lashkay]

I’m rather melancholy – Petie left two bloody indents on my thumb where his incisors went in when he bit me while i was refilling his litterbox. I scooped out the soiled litter like I usually do and he was right there monitoring, When the litterbox was empty, I added by bunches, some fresh litter with my hands and he was suddenly in the box. i moved my hand to add some fresh in the corner of the box, behind where his tush was and when I set it in, he growled, turned around and bit me savagely.  I tried to remember to let out a high pitched shreik to let him know he had hurt me (and hopefully deter him) but I only had the presence of mind to let out a loud “Owwww!” and I then shouted “No!  Don’t you bite me, Petie!” I hit him on the rear and he went scrambling away.  I know I shouldn’t have, but I couldn’t help it, I wanted him to know it’s not OK to bite.  It’s hard to keep him away when I’m refreshing his litterbox but perhaps as a warning, when I had removed the soiled litter from the far corner (it’s a corner litterbox with a high back)  he urinated generously in the empty corner of the litterbox and also the fresh litter was the regular carefresh as I had run out of the carefresh ultra, and he was eating some of the regular carefresh when I replaced fresh litter in the corner behind his tush while he was eating and he made the decision to let me know he wanted me out.   I probably should have known not to mess with it but  I wanted to finish up, but didn’t  fast enough to suit him.  Has any of your rabbits bitten you when you are trying to change their litterbox?

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I’ve found and read that digging is a sign of aggression-like if you pretend to dig near your bunny that’s like challenging them. i wonder if you emptying the box was close enough to digging to elicit an aggressive response? Maybe just clean when he isn’t around?

[lashkay]

I didn’t know that about digging, that’s interesting Kakaneeandkahlua! I guess my placing the fresh litter down and spreading it with my fingers could very easily be seen by a bun as digging, and thus agression! Thanks, I’ll certainly keep it in mind. Has anyone else’s bun attacked them when they’ve cleaned out the litterbox?

[Michelle&Lolli]

I wonder if he bit you cause you startled him? Or he didn’t want to be interrupted during potty time?

I’ve never been bitten while cleaning the litter box. But I’m surprised I didn’t cause Eddie was usually all up in my face while I was changing their litter. Lolli just stays in her box till I’m done then comes out to inspect. But Lolli has just about bitten me when I’ve plucked tufts out near her butt.

[BinkyBunny]

I was just going to post about possibly a digging/aggression miscommunication, but KK beat me to it. That could be what happened.

Also, some bunnies are just territorial over few things. Litter boxes are one of the places they can get grumpy about. And a high pitched squeal most likely won’t deter as he meant to let you know he didn’t like what you were doing. It’s when a bunny is doing something like a little nip to make you move out of the way (if you are sitting in their path) that a squeal may work as most of the time they are just trying to communicate not threaten.

Punishment can actually make a bunny more aggressive. (but I know that it was a split second reaction). So it’s best if you just try and wait until he’s out of there. If he becomes more aggressive and makes it impossible for you to change litter then I recommend wearing gloves and not reacting at all when he bites. He’ll soon learn that biting doesn’t work.

For some reason, I have always been drawn to aggressive bunnies.. I don’t mind if a bunny lunges, grunts, huffs or boxes to express displeasure, but biting isn’t a habit I would allow to keep going. So what I used to do is wear thick gloves to feed, change litter, clean cage/pen. If the bunny bites, I show no reaction, and keep on with litter changing, feeding and what not until I am done. Sometimes, then it will make the bunny grunt, huff and box, and if they do that (as I am okay with that), then I stop doing what I am doing. They quickly learned what behaviors worked for them. Of course, after that there were times I still had to change litters and feed and deal with their attitude (but without the bites), and it was all over soon enough. Over time, they just got used to the “inconvenience” even if they huffed about it. LOL

VIvian is especially territorial over her little area in the foyer/sunroom that I set up for her when I first adopted her.   It’s for her private time away from Jack.  And she’ll go there a about five times a week for a few hours.  That is HER private sanctuary, and she won’t let you forget it!  If you reach down to pet her, feed her, do ANYTHING on her 2 x 3 foot piece of carpet, she’ll huff and box and then turn her back.  (And that STILL happens even after two years.)    So I just know, she likes to be completely alone there, and I sure understand that.  I need my alone time too sometimes.  I just love bunnies with strong opinions and big characters.  Even if they can be challenging. 

Back to your bunny –Has he ever shown aggression before? It is normal for bunnies to be bossy about certain things. I just was wondering if this was more out of the norm, and if it is, then you might want to just keep an eye on him to make sure that nothing medically is making him a bit more grumpy.

[Roxygirl]

Oh no Petie!

Heffie gets rather anxious when I clean his litterbox. He puts his paws up on my leg or my back and he’ll jump in while I’m cleaning it, but he’s always let me clean around him. Sometimes I leave a few pills under the litter so their smell and markings aren’t totally removed. I don’t know if it really even helps or not. I think Heff gets upset because he doesn’t like me rearranging after he’s gotten everything the way he wants it! He always rearranges the litter when I change it and he pees right away to make sure I know that box is still his.

Maybe Petie just really likes his interior decorating? 😉

[lashkay]

Thank you, BB, good to see your posts again.! I appreciate your valuable suggestion to wear gloves and ignore any bites on them. (Although if I know Petie, and I am getting to, he will chew on the gloves to make a weak spot where he can access my flesh! lol) Anyway, I hadn’t thought of that, and if it’s worked for you, I’m willing to give it a try. I have a pair of beaver hide leather gloves that seem pretty thick. Thank you for writing a lot, i’m going to go over and over it until I get every part of your posting down pat. Once I was rearranging the “bedspread” on Dustor’s hidensleep bed. He came up and lunged a little at my hand but I still didn’t get it, he saw, (I didn’t cease and go away) so when I persisted doing what I wanted to with it, he nipped me between my thumb and forefinger. It didn’t draw blood, but it stung. I let out a shrill shreik and involuntarily slapped him on the rear and he ran off to hide in his hidey house. I felt bad and apologetically, minutes after the incident, I shook his diced papaya bag near his gate and he ran over to take some from my fingers. I think he was as relieved to “make up’ as I was. Petie growls at me occasionally, he has a very quick temper as I guess most bunnies do and can decdie in an instant if he doesn’t like something i’m doing. Usually I say “It’s Okay, Petie! Nothing’s happening!” and I think the sound of my voice reassures him. He does seem to like to be petted, but that doesn’t mean he can get annoyed in a hurry. For now, I don’t notice that anything medical might be up with him making him grumpy. Except, I think I smell his anal glands giving off scent, and it’s time to take him to the vet and have them cleaned out. He wouldn’t tolerate me doing anything with them. My first bunny was fine with it, but not Petie nor I think Dustor either.

[lashkay]

Roxygirl, it’s good to know Heffie too is adamant about having the litter his own way. Usually, Petie lets me clean around him too, so I was startled that he would bite. Although I felt uneasy all the while I was doing the task, I was trying to hurry up and be done and wanted to get out of there more than he did, that’s why I took offense when he drew blood.

Michelle&Lolli, I think you hit the nail on the head, I startled him and he didn’t want to be interrupted during potty time. To make matters worse, I MOPPED UP HIS URINE after he pottied in the empty corner of his box. The supreme insult! LOL

[Beka27]

I clean out the boxes in another area of the house, so I’ve never had this issue. Can you do cleaning when the bun is out playing, that seems to make the most sense to me.

[Isabelle]

Dutchess is an interesting case (as always). To change her litterbox I remove it from her habitat to dump and rinse, then refill and add back to her habitat, takes about three minutes. If I try to change her litterbox while she is in her habit, she will do one of three things. The first thing is to just look at me with a ear turned all fluffed up in a ball. The second is she’ll run down quick and put her front paws in her litterbox while I’m lifting it out, as if to say “bring that back!” and she might give a little grunt, then she’ll put her feet back down. The third thing she’ll do is either one of the first too, then while I’m gone she’ll go pee in the corner x.x Sometimes poop too, so that when I get back I have to clean it up first. She looks at me smugly when I have to do that, lol. So lately unless I forget and have to do it late at night, I change her litterbox while she is out scampering somewhere. She usually sees me carrying her litterbox to change it, and it sometimes is of great interest to her (i.e. she follows me to watch), other times she flops and goes to sleep.

I think you got some great reasons and ideas from the above people (I learned something too!), so I have nothing else to add in that way

[RabbitPam]

I think it’s made worse by coming up from behind him to fill the litter pan while he’s doing some business. It probably is one of the most vulnerable positions, and instinct says he could be grabbed by the predator from the back while in the middle of a squat, so quick, bite em.

I agree with Beka. It would be simplest to remove the litter pan entirely after you’ve let him out to play. If he asks to be let out, then he’s probably already used the box enough for the next half hour or so. Remove, clean and refill the box away from the habitat entirely, then replace it. Toss a couple of poos back into it for a familiar scent.

If he pees in the empty corner, just sigh, scoop litter on it to soak it up, toss that into the fresh pan, and put it back in the usual spot. He may be complaining, but once you back away from the litter pan, he’ll prefer it.

[Michelle&Lolli]

Wanted to add that I smacked Eddie on the bottom a couple of times too. So it happens. And like you, it was always after he’d bite me especially hard and I always felt bad afterwards.

[Queensbun]

You’re not alone – my boy likes to “oversee” the job to make sure I’m doing it right and will occasionally nudge or even nip me. I will do it when he’s in the other room but more often than not, he will come running back in to “help”. Now that I think about it, after reading some of the other posts, there were never any issues when I removed the entire littlebox from the area (to wash out the box) so that’s an excellent tip!

[lashkay]

Petie’s corner litterbox is attached by little hooks on the litterbox to locks that are secured to the pen wall so I will have to go to all the trouble to unhook the litterbox which takes a few moments – giving him still plenty of time to bite me.

Thanks, Beka – sounds like you’ve got a good idea!

Isabelle, you had a LOT to add, thanks. I had to chuckle at your description of Dutchess looking at you “smugly” when you come back to find she’s peed in the empty corner while you’ve been cleaning the box. Bunnies ARE so calculating, I could believe she IS smug! lol

I agree, Rabbitpam, it wasn’t wise to continue tending to the box while he was wetting and rooting around in there. I had an uneasy feeling something bad was going to happen all the while he was in there, if I kept it up, but against my better judgment I just wanted to take the few more seconds to finish the job.

Thanks, Michelle, it’s good to know I wasn’t the only one in the position of having smacked a rump after a savage bite. Good to know I’m not alone, thanks!

Thanks, Queensbun, for the confirmation that you find removing the box from the area is the way to go, too. Makes sense!

I agree, with Isabelle. You all have posted very appreciated personal accounts of your experiences around litterbox changing time and a lot of new ideas and experiences I never heard before. There will be some very emphatic changes to more than just Petie’s litterbox when it’s time for the next change! LOL
Thanks so much!

[Michelle&Lolli]

I should probably clarify that I never hit Eddie hard. I’d want to smack him hard, but end up only tapping him. With him looking at me like “what?” if he looked at me at all. So yes, smacking was completely ineffectual which is why it only happen when he’d bite me really really hard. And the second I’d tap him, I’d feel bad.

[lashkay]

Awwww, we know you wouldn’t really have hurt Eddie, Michelle. Don’t feel bad. I too, only “tapped’ Petie but that was more because he moved his fanny so quickly away. It was an involuntary reaction and it seemed to make a point although I, too, never smack my bunny unless it bites me savagely. For the rest of the day, he was nervous around accepting treats from me and I too felt bad. But I think with all the petting and massaging we do of our buns, it reinforces the good times and the bad are kept at a bare minimum and far outweighed by the good times, thankfully.

[Michelle&Lolli]

I just reread what I wrote and was like…”uhhh…that sounds bad”. LOL When I tapped Eddie, it seriously didn’t ever phase him. He didn’t know what the tapping meant and didn’t know why I was gushing all over afterwards. Mine was an involuntary reaction too. I’ve also gotten into “arguments” with each of them. Me yelling at them and them thumping back at me, sometimes even growling too. LOL Ahhh…gotten love the little stinkers!

[lashkay]

I didn’t think you sounded “bad” at any time, but thanks for your additional thoughts. It’s just as well that it was just a ‘tap” because as Binkybunny pointed out, perceived punishment can lead to more aggressiive responses in the bunny and an undesirable catch-22… It’s certainly hard not to love the little stinkers!

[Elrohwen]

Some great suggestions! I wouldn’t have thought of the digging/aggression miscommunication either.

Neither of mine bite and they aren’t territorial. Otto doesn’t like if I mess with him while he’s in the litter box, but he doesn’t like to be touched most of the time so I don’t think it’s specific to the litter box. Hannah always has to “help” me change the litter and is very curious, but not aggressive. I can pet her while she’s in the litter box and she flattens right out.

[lashkay]

Thanks for sharing, Elrohwen. I’ll try petting Petie the next time he’s in the litterbox when I’m there. Were that he’ll let me! It might give him the message though, that I don’t mean him any harm, only trying to make it clean for him. (he won’t get THAT, but he might that I don’t mean him any harm.)

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