Do sick bunnies Binky/ zoomie/ flop?

[M&MBunnies]

Hi everyone, brand new member from Australia 🙂

I have 1 very nervous and skittish bunny who is prone to gas/ stasis. Sometimes he acts more reserved than usual, doesn’t come out of his sleeping area to socialise, or sleeps a lot more or sleeps in an unusual spot. All of these generally indicate something is not right.

But then after a while, or if I let him play in the backyard he will either Binky, zoomie or flop.

He sends very mixed signals. I have pretty bad anxiety from all of the health issues he has had so I constantly monitor him so the mixed signals drive me a little mad!

So my question is do sick bunnies Binky/zoomie or flop?

[Wick & Fable]

A rabbit “prone to gas/stasis” is interesting and makes me wonder if changes in care may alleviate that, specifically diet changes. A rabbit simply being more nervous/skittish should not be experiencing significant gas frequently, as all rabbits are, to an extent, very nervous and skittish since they are prey animals owned by large human predators.

Yes, rabbits who are ill in one or many domains can absolutely still binky, flop, etc.. — as prey animals, they are programmed to mask illness as much as possible since acting/appearing ill makes them an unfortunately easy target for predators. How a rabbit expresses is not a reliable indicator for how healthy they are, with the exception that if a rabbit is indeed acting sick, then that is a huge red flag that something is definitely wrong.

What is your rabbit’s diet, both in what you provide and how much is given/eaten? Also, when you say “prone to gas/stasis”, what exactly does that mean? What do you see, what have vets said, etc?

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Bam]

I agree with Wick.

But if he has intermittent gas trouble, letting him out to play could perhaps help him pass gas? And that relief could be so great that that he binkies and flops.

[M&MBunnies]

I have 2 buns and they both have the same diet.

Oaten hay and bit of Timothy or meadow and rye hay mixed. They don’t eat too much of this. Oaten is their favourite.

A teaspoon of oxbow adult pellets.

A handful of buffalo and cat grass (like wheatgrass).

As treats ever other day they get a small piece of clover, rye and Oaten hay cube or Oxbow digestive tab.

I stopped giving fruits and veggies after the multiple gas episodes. For the past week I have been trialling no grass because a vet advised wet grass is not good for them and it’s been raining here a lot.

With 1 bun he retreats and reduces eating or hides away, denies pellets/treats. With my other bun I can hear squeaking stomach sounds and she stops eating completely.

I’ve had my buns for 12 months and have had to do 13 vet trips between the 2 of them. Had x-rays and blood tests done which showed nothing. I just get sent home with gut motility and pain medication and critical care. So it’s a bit mystery why they keep getting unwell. Even on such a strict diet. I’m definitely overwhelmed! And yes it’s the best 2 rabbit specialist vets in Sydney, Australia.

They are free roam bunnies. They usually get about 2 hours of free roam time in my huge backyard but recently there has been a lot of rain so they have been inside.

 

 

[DanaNM]

Hmmm, that must be so frustrating!  When they refuse food, how long does that usually last? Does it go along with other signs of discomfort (tooth grinding, squinting, sitting hunched)? And do you notice a pattern with time of day?

I know sometimes getting up and laying down repeatedly is a sign of discomfort, and flopping can also be an attempt from the bun to dislodge a gas bubble.

Movement in general can help with gut motility and gas, so it’s good that they still want to run around.

Have you been having issues with both bunnies, or mostly just 1? Are they related? I’m curious because it would be unusual for both bunnies to be having some chronic problems.

Have their teeth been checked? And do they generally eat a lot of hay when they are eating normally?

My only other thought is that some bunnies are really sensitive to certain pellet ingredients. Some buns do better on a pellet free diet, or on a different pellet.

Sorry this is a whole lot more questions, just trying to cover some possibilities!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[M&MBunnies]

Thanks I appreciate the questions because it helps me think.

Yes I’ve had issues with both my buns but different symptoms.

1 buns just reduces eating. But doesn’t completely stop. Other symptoms are that he lays down or rests in a different area, or doesn’t come out to the living room as much to sit and watch tv with me. Plus no binkies/zoomies. But is still alert and then will suddenly do a zoomie. Most of the time will still run for treats. When he is well he is a great hay eater. Will eat a variety of hay and munch away all day.

We did an x-ray of his teeth because he was showing signs of mouth discomfort. E.g. Not eating pellets and rubbing face, dropping hay. But nothing showed up. The vet just said maybe a seed or hay had gotten stuck in his teeth and was causing discomfort but vet didn’t find anything stick in there.

With my other bun, most of her early stasis episodes happened because she was going to the vet with my other bunny and that’s stressful. Other times it has been actual gas issues. This then led to early stasis and then from December 2021 I’ve been dealing with soft cecotropes most days and 5 instances of soft poo. Not diarreah because rest of her poop are great.

I’ve had the poop tested for bacteria and parasite everytime and it came back negative.

I’ve also tried Oxbow garden select pellets, Burgess indoor pellets and science selective pellets. They were still having issues.

My concern is that if I get rid of pellets too then all they are having is hay. No veggies, no pellets or grass. So the pellets are there to make up for lack of veggies.

[M&MBunnies]

also when he flops he flops down for a while. Not the laying down type and getting back up which I’ve seen him do once and took him to the vet.

The 2 buns are not related. But love at first sight so I am afraid to leave one when I go to the vet in case they become unbonded.

The longest I’ve let them go without food is probably 6 hours. If I’ve given the meds and a belly rub and offered Critical care (which they love) and a few hours later they don’t eat I take them to the vet.

I hate watching them suffer.

[DanaNM]

All good info! It sounds like you’ve covered a lot of possibilities.

With bun 2 (the one with the soft poops), you might try a probiotic. Bene-bac is pretty commonly used with rabbits and seems to help in a lot of cases.

With bun 1, that’s really tough. Some bunnies do just seem really prone to upsets. It’s good that he’s a great hay eater though. One thing you could ask your vet about (as a step you could take at home before rushing to the vet) is subcutaneous fluids. Dehydration is often part of the equation with GI issues, and giving a small amount of fluids is generally safe once you’ve been shown how to do it (even preferred to syringe feeding in some cases, because if a bun has a blockage then syringe feeding is not always recommended). One of my buns Myra sometimes has these little episodes and sub-q fluids seem to snap her out of them better than anything else.

You might try to keep a journal of when you notice these episodes, what time of day it is, whether they resolve at home or not, time since last meal, whether they are molting, or any other thing you can think of that could be related. A pattern could emerge that you couldn’t see before.

Also regarding the vet visits and the bond, bonds breaking after the vet is pretty rare, even when they don’t go together. So if bun 2 is getting overly stressed, then it may be best to keep her home. When you go to pick bun 1 up, you can bring her with you and have them ride home together in the carrier. It can also help to have them sit together in the carrier for 15-20 min once you get home but before letting them out.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[M&MBunnies]

Thank you. Those are great info around bonding. Bun 2 suffers so much because of these ever trips.

Unfortunately we don’t have benebac in Australia and all other probiotics are for cats and dogs so vets don’t recommend it for rabbits. I’ve been giving dried chicory roots as treats sometimes because I’ve heard it’s a good form of probiotic.

They are moulting at the moment and because of all the vet trips they hate being touched and don’t trust me. So I really struggle to brush them. Plus it’s been humid in Sydney most of summer so I think that’s making it worse. It could be that because I do find hair linked poop.

I keep a journal. Of their every move because I’m Work From Home! Haven’t found a commonality unfortunately so I’m taking stabs in the dark (e.g. removing grass because of all the rain on it).

[Bam]

From what I can find, Synbiotic D-C by Protexin is available in Australia and NZ. I have used that a lot for rabbits over the years, f ex last weekend when my bun had a bad bout of (hopefully moult-related) stasis. It contains enterococchus faecium is a bacterium that’s highly prevalent in the rabbit gut, it’s a component in many probiotics for dogs and it’s one of the components of Benebac. http://Synbiotic D-C – Products – Protexin Vet Lactobacilli are not considered helpful for rabbits, because they are not resistent to the very acid environment in the stomach, but they are considered harmless (they just perish in the gut). Many probiotics for cats and dogs contain flavors such as liver, so that might be why your vet recommends you don’t use them. As we all know, with rabbits, it’s important to closely read all ingredients lists – I never buy anything that doesn’t state exactly what it contains.

Chicory root is very good, but it’s a prebiotic, i e (important) food for gut microorgansisms

That said, probiotics are obviously not magic. Your case is puzzling. It seems you are doing everything right.

I think Dana’s advice on not taking the other bun to the vet is very wise. Some buns just don’t do well with travel. And if you can get the gear to do sub q fluids at home, that’d be great. It’s not difficult if your vet shows you how. Your vets must know you well by now and know that you’re concientious owners.

 

[DanaNM]

Build up of hair can definitely cause some gut issues. One of my buns hates being handled and touched, so when she is molting heavily I will put her on the table a do a really deep grooming once or twice a week, rather than constantly pestering her. She of course gets a special treat after and tends to forgive me pretty quickly.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[M&MBunnies]

Subcut fluid is administered by needle is that correct? There’s no way I’d get my bun to sit long/still enough to get a needle in him. Both buns will jump or run at the first chance.

Mine hate handling so much that the 3 times I groomed her on a table she went into stasis!!! Even though it was 20 minute max and I went as gentle as I could.

Ive actually got a groomer coming next week who has owned bunnies for 10 years and I’m hoping she has techniques to teach me. But I’m also now preparing for another GI episode. But I can’t not groom her because then she may get sick anyway 😭

[DanaNM]

Yes sub-cutaneous is with a needle. I usually either hold the bun on my lap on a chair, or burrito them in a towel on a table. The burrito method would probably work well for your buns.

If your buns are that sensitive to being handled, then you will need to work with them on being more accepting of it. As you know, it’s important that you are able to groom them and handle them when medically necessary.

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

Also, when you say that she went into stasis, can you clarify what you mean?

Rabbits do not eat 24 hours a day, and during the day they will often spend a lot of time sleeping and resting. It’s also normal for a bun to need a bit of time to recover after a stressful event. As a rule of thumb, a rabbit should spend around 4 hours per day eating hay, and most eat the most hay at night (or in the early morning or evening hours).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[M&MBunnies]

Just came back from the vet after another episode  with one of my buns. They were at the vet overnight. Did x-rays, bloodworks, teeth check and everything and it all came back fine. Which is great news on one hand but I’m still stumped why yesterday he was showing signs of pain and not taking food. I’m so exhausted and upset they are having to poked and prodded so many times.

The only other thing we are waiting on is a blood test to see if they have led poisoning but I’m pretty sure it will be negative because our house isn’t that old and we’ve repainted a few times and I’ve not seen any walls chewed.

How else can I get them used to handling? I sit with them for hours, like down on the floor, give them head and cheek rubs and stroke down their back. All of which they are ok with. But as soon as I touch their stomach they run off. They are also free roam in the house so they will run to the other room and hide if I follow them. They probably also associate picking up with all these vet trips. Everytime I get close to earning their trust another episode happens and back to the vet we go. So the trust and bond breaks.

When I say she goes into stasis I mean the next morning I’ll wake up and she will be hunched over and refusing food.

Right now it’s been half an hour since they’ve been back home. One bun had a bit of a nibble on hay and pooped. The other bun is lying down and shaking. She is the one who gets more stressed with handling.

A very broke, exhausted and upset bunny mum. But also grateful they are back home.

[Azerane]

I’m sorry to hear that your bunnies have been unwell for so long. It makes me wonder whether it could be something environmental. Something that they get into every so often, or not too much of that it only upsets them every now and then. Litter, bedding, chewed carpeting or furniture. Any house plants or plants/weeds in the garden that they may be nibbling on that can cause gut upset. Do they chew a lot of cardboard? Out of everything you feed the only thing that I would look at trialing is removing the every other day treat with the clover in it.

Another thought as mentioned with how one gets stressed with travelling and that can cause stasis episodes too, with all the pellet changes that can lead to stasis as well. I wouldn’t change their pellets again but you could trial removing them if you wanted. Since they are both adult rabbits, there is no harm in removing pellets from their diet for a month or so, just keep track of their weight to make sure they don’t lose too much. If you do remove the pellets, when you reintroduce them again do it in tiny amounts, like a couple of pellets each per day. I know you only feed a teaspoon as it is, but some buns can be super sensitive.

[M&MBunnies]

I’ve checked all their common hangout areas, nothing chewed up that I can see. They do lock the carpet a lot but I vaccume and steam clean once in a while.

They have rabbit chew toys which they chew and eat, that include a cardboard, water hyacinth and sea grass. I wouldn’t say they chew excessively but I also don’t really know what excessive is.

We are also a pretty quiet family, no kids or other pets. The only person that really touched them is me. My brother will give them little head rubs and my parents don’t touch them or interact with them at all.

Yep I’ve removed the Clover/rye/oaten hay cube. Although they were only getting a tiny bit.

So yeah, pretty lost about why it keeps happening.

[Author]

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