DIY Housing for 3 But Separate?

[secuono]

So I have 3 buns, one is ‘evil’ and the other two are new babies. I need to make them a cage to house Daisy & her two baby friends, Fudge & Caramel, but not together! Daisy hisses and claws, so I would love to find a metal screen with tiny holes so she can’t get to them, but still can eventually be close to them and chit chat. I want an easy clean bottom since they all suck at potty training, still working on it though, so a wire bottom would be great. I will add a plank of wood for them to still sit on something comfy and have a litter box, but the wire bottom will make it easy for me to brush the poos down and away for easy cleaning. I’d like for it to have 2 levels at least, 4ft deep and maybe 4-5ft across per section. So total of Length 10ft x 4ft Width x Height 3ft. Bottom wire would be over a solid bit of plywood a few inches above and detachable. I get that it would all be heavy, so only the bottom catch and back wall would be solid plywood. The top, short sides and front all wire screening. Would 2x2in wood be sturdy enough to hold it up? I was thinking the ‘stand’ would have legs for support every 2-3ft, and I only wanted the whole thing maybe a foot off the ground itself. I also wanted to attach hooks across the top frame on the side where there is only screening to put plywood on durring winter for added insulation. I’ll try to draw up what I’m planning, but any help would be great!

[secuono]

[Barbie]

That looks pretty good, and the different levels are great for enrichment – some bunnies really love sitting up high! Make sure they have plenty of toys and run time outside the cage too! Can I offer a few suggestions?

Are you planning on having this hutch inside? On this site, we advocate house rabbits – there really are too many dangers outside for a rabbit (weather, predators, etc). 

Also, if you need to keep the rabbits seperate, I’d recommend making sure that there is a couple inch gap between the two sides.  If it’s just one sheet of the wire, the rabbits will be able to get at each other through the fence and may still hurt each other.   You can just put up two walls (out of the wire fencing), a couple inches apart, that way they can still see and hear each other.

I really am not a fan of wire flooring – I adopted my bunny and when I got him he had calluses on the bottom of his back feet on his hocks – the condition is known as “sore hocks” and is generally caused by sitting on wire flooring and/or having long nails (which force the rabbit to shift his weight back to his hocks).  If allowed to progress, the rabbit can get large open infected wounds on his hocks, which are very painful and very hard to treat.  I know you’re struggling with potty training (if they’re not already, spaying/neutering will help that issue infinitely, also check out the potty training tips on this site) and want something easy to clean, so what about a solid floor covered in some linoleum (you can get scraps at a hardware/home improvement store).  That way you can just wipe it down with some vinegar/water and a cloth.

[secuono]

They get along every now and then, but sometimes, Daisy gets fed up randomly.
Yes, indoors, otherwise, why have a pet at all.
Like I said, potty training is very slow, so they need the wire, otherwise they will sit in pee and poo all day. They will have the other levels if they get sick of the wire floor.

[Beka27]

I’m not a fan of wooden enclosures. The issue is if they miss the litterbox (like you said, they are not 100% with littertraining yet) the pee will soak into the wood and no amount of cleaning is going to get the smell out. You might not be able to smell it, but the bunnies will so they will always associate that area with where their toilet is supposed to be. Having a wire bottom is not going to matter because bunnies can actually lift their bottom and pee sideways… or they can spray urine, and this will go all over the wood back.

Have you looked into building a NIC condo similar to what you planned out? NIC panels can be cleaned if necessary.

[secuono]

Yea I did, but my mini babies can squeeze out easily and they cost a lot more than their worth. Out of the pack, 1/3 are small enough holes and are usable, rest is just junk really…
I was thinking of putting a sealant over the wood or linoleum. But since they dig at times, even that wont be much good. Either way, they will be in the garage, no cars in there just a live fish tank and things in storage.

[Barbie]

I’d be careful with the sealant… they might be tempted to chew on the wood and it wouldn’t be good for them be eating (or even inhaling) the chemicals…

[Monkeybun]

The problem as well with open sides and front is no protection from weather… might want to build something with more of an enclosure.

[Elrohwen]

If you live near a Bed Bath & Beyond you can get NICs that are all the small grids for $14.99 a package. I can’t imagine they’d be able to squeeze out of the smallest grids, especially once they grow a little bit (baby buns grow so fast!)

I’m also with Barbie in that sealant would probably be toxic if the buns chewed (which they definitely will) so I’d avoid that. Covering surfaces with linoleum should make them pretty pee proof, but I guess you can’t cover all wooden surfaces with lino very easily.

[secuono]

I would use fish safe sealant which is safe for all life.
And mini buns even full grown can get through a 1.5-2in hole easy.
My last bun used to jump up and catch onto the ceiling and squeeze through then jump down 2ft.
Like I said, garage, not out in the elements as well as it would have wood panels that attach when it’s winter.
PLEASE READ MY WHOLE POST BEFORE RESPONDING - 
They don’t chew on wood, just metal and the random toys I give them.

[secuono]

That is Fluff and the grids behind her are the big ones she, and the new buns, can get through.

[Elrohwen]

I understand that little buns can get through the big grids, but it is possible to buy packages with only the small grids at BB&B. There’s no way even the smallest bun would fit through them (I have a small bun and he can’t even get his nose through the small grids, even when he was only 2lbs).

We’re just trying to help answer you post and give you some ideas. You can still build to whatever plan you want if you don’t like our ideas.

[secuono]

The bb&b here doesn’t have them, only Target. But they only sell ones with a few tiny grids, rest too large to be usefull and $18 for 6 grids is ridiculous.

[Elrohwen]

That’s a shame, my BB&B always has a ton of them and they’re pretty reasonable (and all small grids). Too bad all the other stores stopped selling the small grid ones.

[secuono]

Yea, it would be a heck of a lot easier and cheaper with grids if we had the right ones.
We have 2ft + of snow here! ^.^

[rosalie68]

sorry to butt in, we have those same nic cubes at the target here and they have pretty big grids that are for the backing of the cubes. my dwarf could definately squeeze through. anyways i was wondering if they dont have the cubes at bed bath and beyond do you know of a website that sells them. im making a nic cage in february and was kind of bummed at the target cubes.

i think the linoleum floor would be awesome. usually bunnies pick a special corner to pee in so im guessing they would start to use a litter box as they get older. they also may not chew wood as of now but might start to do that later on. i do like the design of your cage. is your garage heated? what kind of fishtank do you have out there? just curious bc im a fish keeper myself ;o)

kim

[Elrohwen]

Rosalie, I would definitely check your own BB&B. I’ve always found them at mine, so there’s a good chance that yours would have them as well.

[rosalie68]

thanks elrohwen!!! i never even thought to look there. i’ll be checking that out after the holidays. getting crazy to go anywhere with xmas so close!

[BinkyBunny]

Posted By secuono on 12/18/2009 12:53 PM I will add a plank of wood for them to still sit on something comfy and have a litter box, but the wire bottom will make it easy for me to brush the poos down and away for easy cleaning. I’d like for it to have 2 levels at least, 4ft deep and maybe 4-5ft across per section. So total of Length 10ft x 4ft Width x Height 3ft. Bottom wire would be over a solid bit of plywood a few inches above and detachable. I get that it would all be heavy, so only the bottom catch and back wall would be solid plywood. The top, short sides and front all wire screening. Would 2x2in wood be sturdy enough to hold it up? I was thinking the ‘stand’ would have legs for support every 2-3ft, and I only wanted the whole thing maybe a foot off the ground itself. I also wanted to attach hooks across the top frame on the side where there is only screening to put plywood on durring winter for added insulation. I’ll try to draw up what I’m planning, but any help would be great!

 

That will be a good size and Wow, that will be quite the project! You must be handy with this kind of thing. I just ran this by my husband because I know zip about what’s needed for supports etc and he’s an expert at this so these are his suggestions

1. Use 2×4 and on the corners  and you should carry those up to the top (create box  type skeleton with the 2 x 4s)

2. Create supports (not legs) but 2×4 that span the width every few feet. (it would end up looking sort of like a ladder underneath.

3. Use Melamine wood below the wiring – that will keep it water-proof.  Some of those don’t have melamine on the edges so you’d have to cover or figure something out. 

4. You’ll need some sort of support for the wire flooring at that size as well and that will be tricky. because you can put a support board in, but they can urinate over that, and melamine would be recommended as they could chew on the edges. So that’s still a “hmmmmmm??? What to do, what to do.”

I am so bummed that the “organize it” type wire cubing are harder to find in the smaller grid size. There are some places you can buy online, but I imagine the shipping would be outrageous. The other option is to use an xpens and put wire netting around them. That way they can sniff each other but not bite. Of course this only works if you figure out something that works besides the wire flooring.

Posted By secuono on 12/18/2009 12:53 PM

So I have 3 buns, one is ‘evil’ and the other two are new babies….they all suck at potty training, still working on it though, so a wire bottom would be great.

 

Only ONE evil bunny at this age…oh…just wait….juuust you wait! (evil laugh here) No really, from your profile, it shows you have an 8 month, and two 3 month olds. And all females, so territorial issues of marking and aggression are not uncommon. You may even have troubles with the two female lionheads getting along in another month or two. But let’s keep our fingers crossed they stay great friends.

It’s no wonder you are having litterbox challenges. Between the first female getting two new friends, plus with them being young and reaching sexual maturity, you have a real WOW urine and poo factor going on here.   Are you planning on spaying them as this may really help with marking. However if they do not bond, they may always do some territorial marking regardless, but at least it may help cut down the extreme aspect of it. In the meantime, you do have some challenges.

Wire flooring can be tough on bunny feet and though they have levels up above, you don’t want to force them to spend their time there. They should be able to run around on the other floors too, and they may decide to do that but if they do they could have foot issues to be aware of. Sore hocks are not easy to get rid of once they get started. But at the same time you don’t want them to be sitting in their own urine either as that can cause irritation not only on their feet, but in their eyes/nose. Both issues can cause health problems and possible need for vet care down the line.

So what do you do???? One of the things that I’ve suggested before was using washable fabric that you can replace daily. A cheap way to do this is go to fabric store and get enough yards of fleece that you could always have a dry one in, a dirty one in the wash and one waiting to replace the dirty one while one is in the wash or in the dirty hamper.  (of course, you still have to have a water proof bottom – sheet vinyl is a good option)

[jerseygirl]

On the sheet vinyl – maybe you can use that to line all of the wood surfaces for easy cleaning? i.e., line all the wood before putting the enclosure together. Fluff was super cute. I read in your other thread you lost her recently. I’m very sorry for your loss, especially of one so young. Binky Free Fluff!

[secuono]

Fluff & Daisy never fought, even though Daisy was old enough to start that.
I’ve read in a lot of different places that wire floors are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Daisy lived on a wire floor her whole life before I got her and she had no feet issues at all.
As for potty training again, Daisy always sucked at it. Fluff only went potty in her cage, outside in the house she was an angel and I never had to teach her. Same thing with the new bunnies, they only potty in the cage and refuse to use their litter box no matter what.
I used to do the towel thing, but I went through 5 thick bath towels every 2 days, if not sooner. I had to limit their water since they peed like mad!

[BinkyBunny]

Isn’t Daisy only 8 months old? Am I reading the age on your profile correctly? Just double checking this before i answer.

[secuono]

Ok, some people say she’s old enough to fight, others say not. Idk either way.
She is 8mo. or so, I don’t remember 100%, maybe 9mo now.

[BinkyBunny]

 No worries. It was just the way you spoke about her that made me think I was mistaken about how old she was. As far as the wire bottom, I was just wondering how long she had really been on that kind of floor as this is not something that would happen over night. It does take time.

We are just giving you tips and concerns about what we’ve seen and experienced. Most of us do have our bunnies on solid floors as most of our rabbit-savvy vets do not recommend wire flooring, but even on solid floors, clean surfaces, etc sore hocks can still happen occasionally, but the wire flooring does put them more at risk from what I’ve seen. So that’s the advice that some of us can offer.

As with anything, you will find pretty much anything you want to support or contradict whatever you want to achieve, so it comes down to hearing our experiences, reading about it from both sides, and then from all of the differing views, you will have to decide what is best for your bunnies. I personally discourage wire flooring because of what I have seen at rescues when they get in bunnies that have that kind of flooring, but if you decide to use wire flooring anyway, then just regularly check their feet so you know they are comfortable and so you don’t have to deal with vet bills later down the line.

Daisy is definitely old enough to display her divatude as you know first hand.  As far as fighting, (though I think you will have just as many problems with marking right now), it really has to due with the individual personality of the bunny and so each one, pair, trio etc will be unique. One pair may get along, while another will fight. The same bunny may love one bunny, but hate another. 

Normally the deciding factor whether bunnies are going to get along or not it is more about a hierarchy that they establish. So, if there are two dominant bunnies they may be more aggressive or bossy with each other and other bunnies. Where a more dominant bunny may get along better with a less dominant or passive friend. Or two passive bunnies with each other may get along better. (there are a bunch of subtle signs that can cue you in to this heirarchy behavior) But their true adult personalities really begin to form after a few months so that is why it can be hard to predict for sure what is going to happen this early…but things should get interesting soon – the two lionheads could stay best buddies, especially since you are not seeing ANY aggression at this point, but this is also the time where they may be working through their own heirarchy and so I’ll keep my fingers crossed they work it out without incident. Keeping However, Daisy is now old enough to have her personality established, and she definitely seems to proclaim herself as the top bunny with the newbies right off. 

I’m sorry Daisy lost her friend fluffy who she did get along with.   The fact that Fluffy used her box better than Daisy could be due to the fact that Daisy seems to be a rather dominant gal, and so she may be more prone to marking. (I was just thinking too, I hope she doesn’t have a UTI but from the sounds of it, she just might be marking up the place because she is a “Queen” personality. 

Which is why littertraining can be challenging at their age and within this situation.  If that can somehow get under control, you may be able to find solutions to make cleaning easier and the smell better.  (as well as spaying should help tone this down a bit)

Good Luck!  I know at this time you are just mulling this all over,  so let us know what solution ends up working best for your situation. 

P.S – I am also so sorry for your loss of Fluffy!    Binky Free Fluffy!

[secuono]

Her name is Fluff, not fluffy or fluffly.

Daisy is quite violent with the new buns, even tearing out chunks of fur. Caramel wanted to make friends, Fudge is a very passive bun and likes people.
Daisy pees in one corner when I let her out, poops all over but not as bad as it was. She rubs her chin all over everything.
I saw Caramel grooming Fudge today, something Daisy did to Fluff all the time w/o Fluff doing it back to her. They seem to be very similar. I’m sure the babies will be best friends since Fudge submits to everyone and Caramel dotes on her.
The whole ‘sore hocks’ thing is very similar to what big thin dogs get. My dobie got them even though he had very soft and comfy places to sleep. Took months to heal, by then he was on hard floors and they still healed. My point is that it’s unpredictable and you don’t really know why it’s happening.
Daisy lives in her own cage right next to the babies since she can be too aggressive and I don’t want the babies freaking out because of her.

[BinkyBunny]

Oh, my mistake!!      === I am sorry for your loss of Fluff. Binky Free Fluff

Unlike dogs, rabbits do not have those thick pads and so they can be even more susceptible. But I am getting the feeling you have your mind made up about this aspect so I will move on.

Good luck.

[Elrohwen]

I wanted to second BB and say that many times baby buns who got along perfectly grow up (around 5-8 months) and begin to fight. I hope yours will remain best of friends, but two females can be the most difficult to bond and I’d hate to see them hurt each other. Hopefully you have an extra cage or something to separate them if they decide to become territorial.

And it sounds like Daisy is definitely marking her territory with all the chinning. It’s good to hear that she’s not marking too bad! Sorry she lost her friend, Fluff.

[secuono]

No, not the paws….anywhere on the body where there is just skin and bone. Like elbows, side knee, ankle, etc.

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Hey you said that they only peed in their cages? SO maybe you could get them a wire bottemed cage and attach a pen to it, so they would pee in their cage but still have room to run in and hopefully they won’t pee in the pen. Just and Idea.

[Boysclub]

what about building a wooden frame and then using chicken wire to keep them inclosed? there is no way they can squeeze thru the smalles holes of chicken wire for it is also used to keep chics in their areas and they are very small. i use chicken wire for my buns and they have no problems with it at all!

[shlbysmom]

i really hope your garage is heated because i have a garage thats not (my bunnys isnt out there shes in the house with me ) but it gets COLD out there and HOT in the summer so i really hope u are prepared to keep them cool and warm so they dont get sick or worse … but good luck with it all and i hope u keep ur bunnys safe

[secuono]

The babies only potty in their cage, I’m not sure if these new ones would go back into the cage to go potty. Fluff used to escape and run around the house, then go back in her cage to eat/drink/potty.
Daisy is set in not going to be potty trained. She doesn’t pick a spot, just poos everywhere no matter what.
Babies seem to have picked spots they go more so, but still messy.

[Elrohwen]

I think spaying would greatly help with their potty habits as Daisy is probably pooing everywhere to mark her territory against the babies. I saw you started a thread about finding a cheap place – any luck?

[secuono]

Daisy poos all over in her cage. Outside her cage she poos around the babies cage and that’s usually it.
Nah, no luck finding a new place or roommates.
If you know anyone needing a room to rent in VA, let me know!

[secuono]

Daisy found a new home with a great animal lover couple!

Fudge & Caramel love eachother and do EVERYTHING together. Just too cute!

 

New plans for indoor/living room cage/hutch.

Top will be painted or faux marble linoleum tile so it will look like real furniture and can be used to put a lamp on, books, etc.

The cage will be either 6ft long or 8ft long. 2.5ft deep and 2ft tall. Posts will be 2×3 & 1×1 for the center/only door.

Center door will be either 2ft or 4ft wide by 2ft tall and will either swing up or to the side.

Flooring will be linoleum tile or long pliable sheet with 4-6in upturned sides to keep any mess contained.

Wire will be the tiny mesh for small animals, since my buns can easily pop through anything bigger than 1.5in.

Should cost less than $100 if all goes well!

 

[secuono]

[rosalie68]

ooh i like that! how do u make the floor plans on the computer? do u have some program that does it for u?

[secuono]

Nah, plain ‘ol MS Paint.

[BinkyBunny]

That concept looks really great! Your idea reminds me of a really nice one in our cool habitats section that also looks like a piece of furniture in the house.  Can’t wait to see your new cage when it is finished. 

Am I understanding the height correctly? Only 2 feet high total ? That seems like the two shelves on the each side may be a little tight. It’s different than the wire cubes because you don’t have to subtract the depth of the lumber for the top, bottom and shelving. So for this habitat masterpiece you are building maybe  2 1/2 feet may be better ????

You also may already be planning on doing this at the corners where 3 pieces come together – but L brackets (either face or support underneath) will help keep it sturdy (especially if it expands to 8 feet)

Anyway, it does look like a really great way to have your bunnies habitat be part of your home habitat. Very cool.

Oh, I forgot to ask – what kind of wood will you be using?

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

Wow, you did all that on Paint? You have more patience than I do! Haha. Looking forward to seeing how all this comes together :]

[Author]

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