Dietary wellbeing

[GlennTheLionhead]

Hey.

I just have a couple questions regarding enriching Nellies diet with food that is helpful for digestion and high fiber intake.

Nellie had another GI slow down today but recovered on her own with no intervention, it seems that it happened early hours of the morning while we were sleeping but she gained her appetite back an hour after being given her breakfast. As we recently rescued her I am learning about her and I have a couple theories to the cause of the slow down.

(a) molt related as she’s a super long haired, double maned lionhead. (b) low hay intake, she is aged 5 and it seems that she spent her whole life pretty much just on pellets according to the rescue. She will eat grass much better than hay and I tried to wean her off grass and stopped giving it completely a couple days ago, just hay and redigrass (like an inbetween of grass and hay) so my other suspicion is that she’s only been picking her hay and not getting enough fiber caused a little slow down. (c) My last thought is stress, Nellie has had a type of separation anxiety since she was recused and separated from her 5 daughters, she’s extremely, extremely nervous and stress being a cause of slow downs would not surprise me.

So does anyone have any thoughts on how to tackle this on all fronts? Any fiber supplement or good effective supplement recommendations? Is it feasible to just continue to give her at least a handful of grass a day indefinitely to ensure she is eating fiber or could this be troublesome? should I try alfalfa and oat hay as supplementary hay? and finally is there ways to soothe her anxiety – we will be commencing pre bonding in a week, not sure if this will help or hinder her anxiety.

Just a side note- I am currently watching her poops carefully for signs of megacolon. She has the distinctive colouration of buns that suffer the condition and appears to be a lionhead x english spot. So far she has regular poops mostly but once or so daily will have some large oval poops and mis-shapen poops but these seem to be almost exclusively ones that are strung together with hair and the odd solo weird looking poop I will find maybe once every few days, so I am not sure if its just a fiber thing more than true megacolon. I would like to tackle this from a dietary standpoint first and see if that helps before another stressful vet trip as she has just been through too much in the last 5 weeks – rescue- separation- spay- 3 hr journey to new home- emergency 00h vet trip- emergency bur the next day- check up trip a few days later… So I’d like to avoid the vets unless there’s an emergency for now.

Thanks!

[pinkiemarie]

I have a few thoughts and I’m sure the members with more extensive rabbit experience will have great advice too. Firstly, no alfalfa. It’s fine for baby bunnies but not adults. It has too much protein and is a legume. She needs grass hay. That said, I don’t think a handful of grass a day is harmful. In the wild they would be eating more fresh greens and if she enjoys it then go for it. I think picky bunnies sometimes prefer orchard grass to Timothy hay but make sure it doesn’t have alfalfa mixed in as they like to sell them mixed for horses.

If you haven’t had bunnies before then you’ll need to get a little emergency kit together just in case. You’ll want baby simethicone/gas medication and critical care and a large syringe to feed it through. A lot of times they’ll be a little gassy and giving them the baby gas medication keeps them out of the ER.

As for the molting, she needs brushed. Many rabbits hate being brushed so you may have to hand brush her where you just remove as much hair as you possibly can by hand. I’ve been removing handfuls of hair from my Clover for 2 weeks and yesterday she left me a little bracelet of 7 poops strung together. It’s a neverending battle during molt season but you need to do as much as she’ll allow without causing her too much additional stress, especially with her long hair.

 

 

[DanaNM]

I agree on no alfalfa. But I think offering a variety of different grass hays would be great, and oat hay is great. My buns looooove the oat hay from BB. It’s my go-too whenever I want a bun to eat more hay, I give them a few handfuls a day when I have it. And I think giving fresh grass is also fine and good to do. Other really fibrous herbs are good to incorporate into salads (dandelion, fennel, mint, escarole). Wild forage such as plantain, mallow, and sow thistles are also really great, just introduce things slowly, as you would any new veggie, and be sure they are in a chemical-free zone and you are 100% sure on their ID.

Now that you know her teeth are in order, the other thing is to just slowly reduce her pellets. You do want to make sure she’s eating enough, so it’s important to do this gradually. She might also need less salad, depending on how much you feed.

There are also pellets that are 100% timothy, as well as some pellets that are formulate for buns that don’t eat enough hay. You could look into those as well.

Since she has normal poops most of the time, I think the larger ones you are seeing are most likely molting related. Megacolon buns almost never have normal poops regularly. Even in buns with that coloration megacolon is still very rare.

You may want to give her a bit more time to settle in before starting bonding. Even another week or two would help get past this big molt and her mouth would prob feel 100% better. I know it’s annoying, but since she’s having these little health issues I think it would be best to make sure you don’t add to her stress too much just yet.

Finally, just keep brushing her! With Bonnie (my nervous girl), I have to pick her up and put her on the table to do deep groomings every couple days during her bad molts. She hates being picked up but she gets a raisin after so she forgives me pretty quickly. Sometimes tough love is necessary!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bam]

You’ve gotten excellent advice from others already, I just want to chime in about the fresh grass. My bun Bam wouldn’t eat hay like he should, so his vet recommended daily fresh grass. He had the beginning of molar spurs, but the fresh grass took care of that, so he passed his next health check with flying colors.

[LBJ10]

Yes, there is no harm is feeding a bit of fresh grass. If you don’t have a good source year round, you could always grow your own. Wheatgrass is popular and easy to grow indoors. It’s often marketed as “cat grass”.

Offering a variety of hay is a good way to encourage hay eating. You can mix in some hay toppers to help entice your bunny. Toppers can be dried herbs, particularly fragrant ones.

Some bunnies are just prone to gas and digestive issues. It doesn’t mean they have megacolon. This article explains the condition a little better: http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Mega/mega_en.htm Hopefully that helps!

[GlennTheLionhead]

Thanks everyone for the advice! Everyone is super helpful and this has given me lots of ideas of how to improve her digestive health.

Thanks for clarifying alfalfa, I didn’t actually realise it was a legume, I have never really had experience with alfalfa so wasn’t really sure how much of a strict no it was. – Based off what people have said here, I have ordered some orcard hay along with some dried plantain for sprinkling and will be ordering some oat too… Is there such thing as too much oat hay or can I give this fairly liberally as an added hay?

Also very reassuring to know that it will be fine to continue giving her fresh grass 😊Luckily our garden is always beaming with weeds and flowers but im not really sure how to ID them… Perhaps I can plant some weeds in a herb patch for her.

I gave her a massive brush last night and really got in there but barely any hair came off her… When Glenn molts I use the finger pulling method with him and loads comes off several times a day, the same with our bridge bun Maggie. But with Nellie and also Bella (bridge bun) both white hair and neither seem to molt in chunks? Is that a breed thing or just a coincidence? Its kind frustrating because shes having stringy poops but no hair came off her when I groomed… She also barely lets me touch her so I had to handle her and put her on my lap for a deep groom… Perhaps shes just molted before she came to us and its just risidual fuzz.

Thanks everyone for the notes on megacolon too, based off the info she doesn’t fit the symptoms of megacolon which is a relief.

[DanaNM]

You can give oat hay liberally, but I like to give it in small portions so they don’t just dig through and find all the seeds.

Plantain is pretty easy to ID! the Genus name is Plantago, all the dif species with this genus are safe to feed. They have a very specific vein pattern on the leaves which makes them easy to recognize and hard to confuse with anything else.

As for brushing, you may need to experiment with the brush type. My buns coats are all so different, some combs work great on one bun but not on another. I often use a sticky lint roller and that works well on all my buns!

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Azerane]

Yes, oaten hay is perfectly fine to give in large amounts if you want, it’s the primary hay I feed since it’s usually the best quality and most readily available here in Australia.

Fresh grass can actually be a good substitute for hay if she is being picky. I mean it’s basically the same thing just not dried yet. For this reason a handful of fresh grass daily could actually be good for her because the increased moisture will help with keeping her gut moving along well. Daily brushing is also really important during a heavy moult. If I don’t brush Apollo daily during his moults he gets GI slowdowns and short stasis episodes too.

[GlennTheLionhead]

Thanks again for the advice all! I have been following it and she seems to be improving with her hay eating a little! She enjoys the meadow hay and so does Glenn, they are both enjoying fresh dandelion leaves daily too.

I have another question, a little different but diet related so I thought I would post it here as to not clog the feeds up.

So I know rabbits shouldn’t eat anything treated with pesticides etc, but what about synthetic plant fertilisers? One thing I have done is buy a load of seeds so I can plant fresh herbs and dandelions for ths buns all year round to help again with nutrient consumption. I went out and bought some compost, I don’t particularly know a lot about gardening so to be honest I just grabbed the first bag I saw that said all purpose without a second thought. I had fun repotting all my house plants but before planting seeds it occured to me that their could be synthetic fertiliser in the compost, and would that then make anything I plant inedible to the bunnies? I assume supermarkets must use all kinds of synthesis fertiliser on the veg and food I usually buy to feed to the bunnies anyway … But I dunno, should I buy more seperate organic soil for the for the buns to be safe? Or perhaps they are not sensitive to simple synthetic plant fertiliser?

If it helps anyone the brand I bought was Miracle gro all purpose compost.

[Bam]

I dont use pesticides, but I do use fertilizer, not all organic. I mostly use “natural” fertilizers aka manure, but it can’t be labled organic unless the animals that produce the manure (cows, horses and chickens in my case) live totally organic lives. I use some semi-organic fertilizer too.

I don’t think it matters as long as there isn’t actual fertilizer on the plants when served. All plants need some sort of nutrition from the soil (or growing medium). They can’t live and grow solely on water and light once the nutrition in the seed has been consumed.

That said, for sowing, it’s recommended that you use soil that’s low in nutrients. That’s just the best thing for successful growing from seeds. Seeds contain all the nutrients and energy they need to sprout. When the plants have a few leaves, they can be transplanted into richer soil.

[DanaNM]

I agree with Bam, they should be fine! And yes seeds won’t need any additional nutrients until they are ready to transplant. Plus, your bunnies are the best compost makers in all the land! Rabbit manure is really great for plants and is sought after by many gardeners! I often just chuck a handful of bunny poops in my potted plants. 🙂

In many places there isn’t a huge amount of organic produce available so buns eat commercially produced greens, all of which will have been grown with synthetic fertilizers (and prob sprayed with various other chemicals at dif points as well).

I think as long as the product is meant to be used for things we eat then it should be fine to use, I would just wash things well.

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[LBJ10]

Synthetic fertilizers won’t hurt anything as long as they aren’t on the plants when you serve them. Just be careful with what you’re buying. Sometimes fertilizers will come combined with other things like herbicides or pre-emergents, so make sure to read the label.

[GlennTheLionhead]

Hey! Sorry I have been offline for a little while but just wanted to say thanks for the tips and pointers about fertiliser and gardening, cant wait for things to starter growing!

I have also heard the bunny poop fertiliser thing before, seems like a cost effective way of getting great plants 😀

[prince dorian the bun]

You got a ton of good advice already, but I use some fertilizer, though often I just use rabbit manure… I  mean I have a never ending source. I do use a seaweed based fertilizer for more hungry plants like tomatoes or peppers, but the buns don’t get those. Most herbs and dandelions won’t want much if any fertilizer, they generally grow in poor soil naturally. It also makes them more fibrous.

If you are in an area where you can forage I recommend it. I  noticed much better poop health when I switched to about 75% foraged greens. I gather dandelion, false nettle, plantain, lemon balm, chickweed, grasses, clover (go easy on the flowers) and miners lettuce. I can’t do it year round,  but in spring it is pretty abundant. Do take care to avoid areas that spray pesticides, near heavy traffic and wash thoroughly. I rinse of dirt, then soak in a little lemon for a while, the rinse again. Understand that may not be possible depending where you live.

[Oliver The Bunny!]

First, you could brush her more often! I would suggest a hair buster comb! You could also try a blend of hays, orchard, western timothy, botanical, etc. You could try chewy.com, oxbow sells bundles of different varieties. Then she can pick through and get all the fiber and nutrients she needs! You could even sprinkle pellets or oats in the hay. She may not be eating that much if you just got her (because of stress like you said). She may just need time to get comfortable with her surroundings.

[GlennTheLionhead]

Hey Oliverthebunny! Thanks for replying and your advice 🙂

Just to update – I have been following all the advice and suggestions given by you all for a couple weeks now and Nellies poops are beautiful now! Perfect color, normal shape, nice and big and I have no concerns about megacolon symptom now. The wider variety of things really sparked her appetite and shes not as fussy now- shes runs up to us to get food now but touching her is still off limits for now, still progress!

Prince Dorian – I do love the idea of a diet relying heavily on foraged items! Unfortunately where I am there are little sources of wild plants that I would trust to be safe for feeding but I have been trying to forage what I can, mostly from our very wild and abundant garden and I did cheekily harvest some willow from a nature reserve lol

 

[DanaNM]

That’s great! Thanks for the update!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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