Conan & Xena: Next Step (Long)

[Troller]

I’m the loving keeper of two Flemish Giants, Conan the Bunbarian and Xena Bunnier Princess. They we’re fixed in February and bonding began in March. For two months the dates went well, both rabbits mostly ignoring each other or occasionally relaxing or grooming themselves at a distance from each other.

Things were going well, but generally a stalemate with neither anything positive or negative happening in the progress of bonding. One day I decided to have a date on their shared run area by the their enclosures and that’s when they pulled fur and fought. I separated them and thought nothing too bad came out of it but I noticed the next day Conan had a cut on his eyelid. Took him to the Vet and she said he’s okay, no stitches required just some heal time.

I took a 2 week break from bonding, started again for two weeks and then was forced to take another 2 week break because I went traveling. When I got back I called a rabbit society member for advice to help me figure out these two buns. He came over and saw them in neutral territory and thought they were extremely friendly and suggested we expand the area to their shared run to see what happened. Bad news, they went at each other again in a big fight and the bonding expert got bit trying to separate them.

So the expert didn’t know what to make out of this so he contacted an even more knowledgable expert on the matter while telling me to continue the normal bonding in neutral territory. The regular bonding dates were going normal, no real fighting, the rabbits eating and relaxing together. The 2nd expert did get back to me but said because I didn’t let Conan choose his own bunny mate (I couldn’t) that a bond was unlikely to work.

Since then it’s been a month and I was still bonding them. Last week there was a break through with Conan grooming Xena once, and this week Xena’s been grooming Conan nearly all week for several minutes at a time for 5 dates in a row. In their neutral territory they relax, eat and loaf together for up to an hour per daily date without much incident, and even in the living room which is sort of shared (though its not the pet room which is definitely their territory) there was some jockeying and aggression but gets quickly settled with a spray or sharp command. If I’m suspicious about anything its that Conan has claimed a spot in the neutral territory and gets a bit aggressive but again they can be there for an hour and more without fighting.

Well…during the course of the day today, during the span of near 9 hours when we were sleeping and then when I went out to do errands, apparently Conan’s cage was either loose and he escaped or not locked at all. It was while Xena was having her run time so she was out. When I got in to check on them in the pet room I find fur everywhere, Conan in Xena’s pen loafing and Xena herself outside her pen also loafing. It looked like Conan couldn’t get back in his cage after squeezing out so he took her’s, so I guess he won but then it was his fur that was predominately all over the place. Did a thorough check and both seemed well, intact and no visible injuries.

I wasn’t going to have a bonding date but I wanted to again thoroughly check them with my wife assisting. Since the best light was in the kitchen we did it one by one there, and since we were already there and that’s the neutral territory that I use for dates I decided to do a short 20min date to see how they behaved. I was fully ready to separate and put them away with no hesitation.

Turns out they were well behaved. No aggression to be seen, and Xena groomed Conan for a bit. So I’m really not sure where I stand on the bonding as of now, wether to take another break or continue. I’ve been following the steps outlined here at Binky Bunny, also the Rabbit Society Network and the Cottontail Rescue when it comes to bonding, and any other resource I find. So any insight or just general advice would be appreciated and thanks for sticking through this really long post.

[MoveDiagonally]

 First, I would make sure both cages are completely secure. It’s not only dangerous for them to fight it can negatively affect bonding. I’m sure you know all that already though  

 

“The 2nd expert did get back to me but said because I didn’t let Conan choose his own bunny mate (I couldn’t) that a bond was unlikely to work. “

 

I bonded a pair and trio without having them choose their own mates. Letting them choose their own mates can make bonding easier but it’s not a requirement. I think it’s very likely that you’ll get them bonded. They’re doing really well! They only seem to have serious fights in territorial areas and that’s normal. 

 

Onto bonding advice! Well… If it were me, I would move forward rather aggressively.

1. Since they did so well in their long semi-neutral area session I would make up a temporary habitat there with litter boxes, toys, feed them together, etc until they get along for 24+ hours without seriously fighting / you’re comfortable with their behavior there together. They should be confined to a pen during this not free range.

2. Deep clean their room and make it as “like new” as possible and set up their joint habitat. 

3. Move them into their shared habitat and keep them there until they get along without fighting for 48+ hours / again when you’re comfortable with their behavior. 

4. Call them bonded and maybe throw in an extra day of supervision for piece of mind.  

 

This is a constant long session without any breaks and they would need to be supervised constantly as they would with any other bonding. I slept next to them so I would wake up for fights and such. It’s a very exhausting process but it’s how I cemented my trio.

Here’s a link to my thread about it if you’re interested:

https://www.binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/a…fault.aspx

End of page 4 & 5 are when I did the long term cementing. 

 

A less aggressive route would be:

1. Doing sessions in semi neutral until they get along consistently. 

2. Cleaning the territorial room and doing sessions in there until they get along consistently.

3. Clean again, making the area as much like new as possible and setting it up as it will be when they live together. 

4. Move them into their shared habitat and supervise for 24-48+/until you’re comfortable calling them bonded. 

 

This would be slower process and at some point, for me, shorter sessions just stopped working. At that point I  did longer sessions but those didn’t result in much progress.  So I took the “plunge” and went the “I’m going to keep them together until their bonded” route. Another big piece of advice I would impart on you is not to separate when they fight. Ending on bad notes can encourage aggression in later sessions. Instead I would stress bond them and continue a session until they got along well enough to end it. 

 

Wow! I didn’t mean to write a novel! I hope I was at least a little bit helpful.  

 

 

[Troller]

So I figured I’d attempt to do an intense 48 hour marathon try of bonding them this weekend when I’m off. In preperation I decided to run a date in the semi-neutral place in the living room.

That was a disaster. They first ate together no problem, then they started to lunge. I figured I’d give them a little lee way to settle it themselves but instead they went full on fight mode. I stopped it, sat them down and petted them side-by-side to calm them down and then back into their carriers. This took about 30min.

Instead of returning them to their enclosures I decided to test a theory. I put them in the kitchen, their neutral space, to see what would happen. There was some initial brief lunging but then they both settled down and kicked their feet out to relax. Their mood was so calm I could actually leave them alone to qucikly vaccuum the livng room of the fur. While in the kitchen Xena even groomed Conan, which to me signaled a good point to end the date. This lasted about 30min as well.

So now I’m a bit at odds. Do I try the marathon bonding in the neutral area and clean out the pet room thoroughly and hope they bond and things go well, or do I give it more time before I make the final push?

[MoveDiagonally]

Hm… What about starting off in a neutral area for a few hours and then, keeping them together, move them to the semi neutral and see if that helps with the fighting at all?

[Troller]

Thanks for the input and insight MoveDiagonally. I finished reading your thread on your trio and it cheered and disheartened me. Seems like it took you maybe 2 months to bond a trio? A trio!

Here I am going into my 4th month, and whats worse when I first started I was doing two dates a day. I have a blog about it on another rabbit site where Iike you I make a notation of each date (to keep track of things) and by this point I’m nearly up to a 100 dates. And I’m only bonding two! And it started out with them being freindly/indifferent, not haterul or fighting. Good job on your part and I’m completely impressed.

Your posts gave me some inspiration. I think tomorrow I’m going to try a long date, up to 10 hours in the neutral territory. When you did it did I guess you had all the stuff, litterbox, food bowl, waterbottle etc.? Was it new stuff that none of your trio sver used? When you mention scuffles during said long dates, and even when you we’re cementing the bonding what do you mean? Was there fur pulling, kicking, humping, what?

Is it strange thay my two never hump, not at all? Their dominance plays center around presenting but never humping?

Thanks for any help, and for giving me hope because if trios, quads, quintuplets and more are possible surely my two can bond damn it

[MoveDiagonally]

I started bonding my trio on 5/24 and ended on 6/25 but I still watched them overnight for two extra days just to make sure everything was fine.

I began putting in litter boxes, water bottles, ect… when I started doing longer sessions. I had tried it a few times before that in shorter sessions and had to take the litter box away a few times when one of them would get a little territorial over it. The box itself was one that had been used by the bunnies but I cleaned it and wiped it down with vinegar. You want it to be a neutral litter box.

The scuffles were generally chasing or fur pulling. Towards the end of bonding, while I was cementing, it was pretty much all chasing issues. Mine didn’t hump until much later in the bonding process. Generally with humping I would let them do it for a few seconds and then gently push them off.  This lets the dominant bunny feel like their the boss without it escalating into a chase or fight.

Definitely keep us posted about how things are going! I love good bonding stories and I think yours will get there

[Troller]

Well I’m giving the buns the night off. I’m going to groom them and clip their nails in preparation for tomorrow’s marathon date.

[Troller]

Just did an 8 hour date extravaganza…and I’m not sure it did any good. In fact it might have set things back. I set up everything for the long haul; a water bottle, food bowl and jumbo litterbox. The first ten minutes was exploring, then some eating and then on to the the fighting over the litterbox. Now this isn’t the first time they’ve had a litterbox at their date. When I first put a box in there was some fighting but that eventually went away. The difference was that was a smaller box, this one is a jumbo sized one (the one they’re going to share when and if they ever bond) and I guess it was new cause for territorial fighting. Obviously since even the new food dish, bottle and other things didn’t set them off. The fighting wasn’t the worst but it was bad. I almost ended the date very early but decided it would be better to soldier on.

There were long swaths of bunnies relaxing and then intense burst fighting. No chasing, just lunging, leaping and lying on the side to kick at each other. Not sure they would have resolved it without intervention. Two times I put them in the stress box (cramped quarters) to calm them down. The first time it didn’t work, the second time calmed them down and after that they chose to avoid each other. However I could have sworn I saw Xena actually groom Conan in the box but that could have been wishful thinking. The date ended in the last hour and a half with ying around loafing at opposite ends of the kitchen. So I guess that was as high a good point I could use to end the date.

Why I fear I might have set things back is only once did they actually lay a few inches apart, most of their time was spent at a distance. Well, when they weren’t fighting over the litterbox. I tried to swap them so they’d take turns in it, I tried to put them in it both and pet them so they’d be together and calm in the litterbox but nothing worked. Or maybe it did at the end because they both sat outside the litterbox. To say I’m a bit disappointed is an understatement, but not because the date is a failure, I just question whether it’s wise to keep continuing. Conan seems to be getting the worst of the confrontations of late, missing a lot of fur and I notice some scratches on him but not Xena. Xena has gotten it too, but not for a while. I might be letting my ego get the better of me and not thinking about their welfare. It’s just at some moments you see a spark with them, like they can get along. Even when they fight no matter how bad it is they never seem to carry animosity like I’ve read other fighting rabbits maintain. Anyway I’ll sleep on it. At most I may have a normal bunny date tomorrow to see how things are and see in two weeks if I try another marathon date.

[MoveDiagonally]

I would definitely remove the box if they’re fighting over it. I had to remove it a few times when I bonded.

Do you take breaks in their bonding frequently or do you do sessions daily? A break after a big fight can be a good thing but frequent breaks of 24 hours or more can set them backwards in their bond. If you prefer short sessions and/or you think they’re not ready for long ones I would do multiple short ones in a day, everyday.

[Troller]

I only recently took a one day break on Thursday to let them rest after their unintentional day together and fight. Normally I date daily, now up to one hour, When I first started it was twice a day that increased up to 40 minutes until I had to cut it off due to injury.

I did a bond date today that lasted an hour. In the space there was nothing but the rabbits. No fighting, Xena approached Conan a few times but Conan just hopped away, sometimes in haste. I think these last few dates have caused Conan to be a little scared of Xena. Not only does he run away, but he laid down next to me a couple of times, a thing he doesn’t do. Poor little guy he’s been getting the bad end of these fights. But the good news is the date was calm and neither wanted a fight. Xena kept on coming to Conan to sniff him and I think just be around him. She came off friendly while Conan was skittish. So not sure this is progress, but I guess its a good enough sign to continue dates at least.

[Troller]

Went through another date today. The first hour was them avoiding each other but lambchopped out. Conan stayed close to me again. I decided in the last few minutes to sit down next to Xena, so Conan followed and laid down next to both of us. Xena started to groom Conan and I thought maybe the strained relations had passed.

I also played another hunch. Since I started at 7pm and didnt have to go to work until 10pm, I figured why not leave them there together, figuring if anything happened I would seperate them and call an end. In the kitchen I’m actually able to leave them by themselves with me within earshot. I trust them as long as nothing new is present. I did have the small litterbox in there and a plate of greens, but those are standard. Now without me physically there they didnt really remain close, not like before, but they didn’t scuffle either. At some points I could hear and see Xena chase Conan off or Conan run off on his own, but both did lie down and sit around. So 3 hours and it was a little tense but no fighting.

[Troller]

Left them again today for 3 hours. Partly because I had to clean their cage and partly because it went so well yesterday it figured lets try it again. In the beginning they were lying next to each other, eating over one another and Xena groomed Conan. Towards the end however, pretty much in the last 20min Xena started chasing off Conan, or maybe Conan started running off. I’m not entirely sure because I stayed in earshot but not there though I did check often. They did end with a solid 10min time of just laying around which to me was a good sign to end it.

Seems in some cases that everything my rabbits do, they do far more slowly then other bonding rabbits I’ve read about. It took Conan two months into it to start marking. Now 4 months into it Xena has started chasing Conan. Usually Conan used to stand his ground but now he runs away. No fighting which is great, though its weird seeing Conan running but being the one getting groomed.

[Troller]

Double Post, but here’s a pic

[Troller]

A successful 3 hour date tonight, along with some never before seen oddities. For the most part the buns were pretty chill, however they have both found a favorite spot and there’s some jockeying for it. Conan takes to running from aggression now or maybe its Xena takes to chasing him off. Either way besides one incident of fur pull from Xena the rabbits were cordial with each other.

The first oddity came before the day date during the day. My wife tells me they were grooming each other between the cages. Forgot to ask her who, but this sure beats the infrequent occasions when they try to fight between cages and is a first for them that we’ve witnessed. The second oddity comes during the date. Xena spent much of her time planting herself in front of Conan wither her rump to his nose. First time she’s done such a thing consistently and on purpose. Conan then took to either grooming her feet and nether regions or nipping her. I couldn’t quite tell but since Xena’s reactions were rather mild I think it was the former.

Towards the end they got a little squirrely, or I guess more aptly rabbity and a bit more chasing was done. At times I thought a full on fight was about to happen when Conan would rush Xena (I think she thought so to) but all he would do is slide into the contested spot and hunker his head and body down looking like he both captured the spot and wanted grooming at the same time. Xena just stood her ground and both huddled together in a ball looking rather uncomfortable until one of them scampered off. So again, i think this date went well.

I’ll probably continue dating until I do another marathon date on Friday unless a set back occurs. I’m still considering putting an end to bonding for now but since both aren’t harming each other I guess I should give them a chance. Or me a chance, whichever.

[MoveDiagonally]

It sounds like your making progress slowly but surely.

If the’re getting a bit territorial of the semi-neutral space I might clean the area/trouble spots to try and tone down their feeling of ownership in those areas.

[Troller]

So this marathon date went fantastic! 9 hours and so many good things occurred. For one, both Conan and Xena took turns grooming each other. They would also lambchopp side by side and in other ways bonded bunnies would relax together. Best of all, no fighting! Sure there was chasing off and such, but Conan has stopped standing his ground. It seems like he’s the submissive one and is making strides in accepting that.

My plan is to definitely continue bonding, and going forward to keep dates as long I can until I have a spare weekend in the next few weeks to cement a bond. The trick though is they are behaving well in neutral territory, eventually I’m going to have to try a shared area and I’m afraid that they’re just too territorial for that to go smoothly. Anyway I shouldn’t dwell on that and should just enjoy that things went so swimmingly.

[Troller]

What a downer. Had a bad day so this was to be a pick me up of sorts. Put the buns together and of course the begin to squabble from the get go. The chasing off is ok but now Conan has begun lunging which was a thing he didnt do (guess he’s learning from Xena). They seem to be fighting over a spot, and when I take even that spot away they still fight over something.

That and they’ve begun peeing. 4 months of bonding and that has never happened. Oh it started once last night but I took it as an abberation, tonight twice and i know Conan for sure did it but I can’t be positive that Xena didnt do it as well. And we we’re making such progress. Two days before it was a perfect 9 hour date followed by yesterdays bickering 3 hour and now this one.

Before I ended the hour long date I decided to stress them by putting them together in a single carrier for 10min. Tomorrow i might enlist the bathtub. Either way i’m disappointed but the point has been truly hit home that bonding takes patience.

[Troller]

It started with Conan grooming Xena, then a scuffle went on at the middle point of the date, then they just generally ignored each other. So it seemed promising but overall was a very flat date. The only positive was that it was 3 hours long. Oh, but at the middle point I was forced to stress them by putting them in a single carrier together as punishment for the scuffle that looked like it was brewing to be a full on fight.

I’m not sure where I’m at with this bond. They took some promising steps but have also had quite a few setbacks. What’s more, I ‘m just not sure how they will react in shared territory if things aren’t going standardly friendly in neutral. Oh well, tomorrow another day to do it all again.

[flemish giant]

what I did with peeta and Polly was I put them in the back seat of my car in a plastic tub. I had my sister watch them with a broom pan and I drove. They cuddled the entitre time. So I put them in a neutral pen in the living room for several hours only putting them up at night.

When I put them in non neutral territory they would fight so Ive been keeping them downstairs in neutral territory for several days. They’ve been doing great no fighting or anything. I’m going to steam clean the whole room that they’ll stay in and I assume they’ll be fine. I consider them bonded BC they’ve been together downstairs for a week or so 24 hours a day but I haven’t moved them to my room BC I have yet to get the steam cleaning liquid. Hopefully this can help you some.

[Troller]

Well I’m completely discouraged. I think I’m done bonding. 3 hours together and they spent it avoiding each other. The scuffled at one point, and Xena groomed him at one point so that was a wash. Things we’re tense so I decided to put them in the tub to stress them. There Xena again groomed Conan so I thought it was working but then they decided to rumble pretty hard. Add to this I feel an old scab near Xena’s eye, a small one but there. Conan has scratches all over his back and fur missing. I mean I just don’t see the point in pushing them and they keep getting hurt. It truly stuns me that they can be together for hours no problem, groom each other, but then turn around and fight anyways. I guess I’m living with two separate rabbits which isn’t a problem, just a shame.

[flemish giant]

Being in a tub isn’t really stressful IMO. Try putting them in a plastic tub in a car ride or on top of the washer.

[Deleted User]

Since I don’t have personal experience I have been reluctant to add my two cents. But at this point I would really like to point out that compared to EVERYTHING I’ve read you really have not “stress” bonded them. I’ve read suggestions that range from the popular car ride to a laundry basket on top of the washer, dragging a laundry basket around the room, or giving them a ride in a shopping (grocery style) cart. Point is they need to be doing something that completely occupies their attention, and makes them tense and nervous enough to seek comfort in closeness. A confined space like a bath tub or carrier may force them to be closer to each other but it doesn’t provide the element of threat that the unfamiliar situations offer.

I remember one member describing how she likes to put them side by side facing the same way in a laundry basket on the washer (this is a washing machine that is running) and then stand behind them grooming both of them (one with each hand) at the same time.

These sort of sessions don’t have to be (and I believe should not be) very long, but they could be very useful.

If either or preferably both are nervous of the vacuum turning it on and off during periods when they look like they may be about to quarrel is another way of stressing them. But the upset factor is a vital part of the “Stress Bonding”!

Move diagonally describes how she put them in a cube and jiggled them about, … point is I really think you need more “Stress” in the stress bonding. They do spend so much time together either peacefully ignoring each other or companionably, seems a real pity to give up on them, … but it does sound like you need to give them a push to help them make it into that next level.

[flemish giant]

I think the car ride was the best thing I’ve done I drove around for 10-15 mins and after that they’ve been unsepperable.

[Troller]

Well to my benifit I’ve put them in a single carrier and shook them. It seems to calm them a bit. I guess I could give a car ride another go. Single carrier or seperate carriers facing each other for best results? I’m by myself so I can’t quite watch them but I’m notn worried about them fighting in that circumstance.

[flemish giant]

Same carrier

[Deleted User]

Its the ability to litterally cling together and get comfort from Each Other that you want to induce. And sorry to be blunt but you want them, one together so they can do that; and two, unnerved enough that they need too. So any stressing done with them separated is not advancing your cause.

I can appreciate the problem if no one can help you in the car, so what about some of the other solutions, like those utilizing a washing machine. If you don’t have one where you live you really can’t get more neutrel then one in someone else’s home or a public facility.

I suspect that if you look at the methods that most people say they like and are effective they have two major elements, motion and Noise. To someone not used to it a car or a washing machine makes an unknown, continuous sound, … can be very unerving for no precise reason. A shopping cart generally also rattles and is loud as it is pushed.

When you are not given control over your own body sound and motion can feel very threatening even when it isn’t violent or jarring. Combine that with a lack of knowledge as to your current wareabouts, the length of time this will last and not knowing why it is happening and you can quite see why someone in exactly the same position is going to become your best friend very quickly.

[Troller]

On suggestion I used an actual stresser for my rabbits and put them in a single carrier and went for a drive. It was as I feared, while there was less aggression from both it was still there and the car ride didn’t really phase them too bad. I’d call it an inconveniance. Though maybe it wasn’t all bad, no fighting occured over the course of 3 hours, just a lot of jostling.

Maybe it’s my mindset. I’ve been having a really rough week so I’m not as jolly. My wife tells me when she came in today the rabbits we’re binkying in tandem in their cages and grooming each other between bars…ughh. I’m just fried for now.

[Troller]

For lack of creative thinking I put the buns together again today because I had to clean their cages and no longer liked the idea of keeping them in their carriers like I used to. So it had all the hallmarks of a date though I’m loath to call it that.

Whats to say. It started with grooming and ended with a lot of scuffles and a fight. I was almost done cleaning when the worst of it was going on so I decided to rely on my usual stress technique which is to put them together in a very confined space, a single carrier and shake it from time to time. They decided to surprise me and fight in said carrier, amazing because they barely have room in there to turn around much less tussle. So now two of my usual stressing methods have failed (the bathtub being the other) and I’m leery to try another car ride because that didn’t seem to stress them all that much. I don’t need an immunity built up to that too.

The only good point was that when I let them out of the carrier they quietly relaxed a distance apart from each other. I let it go for 10min to finish tidying up and then felt this was a positive enough ending to put them away.

I think it’s time to take a break from bonding, if for anything to give them a chance to recover fur and heal up some minor scratches. I’ll still try to let them out together when I clean but if that also continues to he a mess then I’ll go back to my old methods of cleaning.

In two weeks I have some time and was thinking to try what I see a lot of people in the UK do and just stick them together in a neutral spot until they bond or they can’t. I just wonder can you go from slow bonding and then change tactics to fast bonding. Then again I might wuss out, I’m musing is all.

[Troller]

Not sure on what’s my strategy or if I’m even continuing bonding hut since today was clean up day and its been a few days since the buns have been together I put them in the neutral territory while I cleaned the enclosures. At first the buns took turns grooming each other. Then after a while they just relaxed away from each other. Finally towards the end they decide to get aggressive and lunge and nip at one another.

The smart move would have been to put them back in their enclosures after I finished cleaning but I thought they were getting along so well why not leave them. Another smart move would have been relaxing them ones tensions started to rise then put them back on a happy note. Unfortunately I did nothing bright. Oh well. Went three hours long and half good half not so good.

[MoveDiagonally]

I noticed stress method becoming less effective over time. They get used to them. The NIC cube was my favorite because it was versatile. I could shake it, put it in the car, take them outside, suspend it, etc… I also put pennies in a can and taped up the end. I would shake it which added noise. While GreyDove is correct that stressing them separately doesn’t help their bond I did pre-stress them on their own and then put them together to continue stress on occasion. I found this helpful when they were really keen on fighting.

I think your idea of taking a break is not a bad one. Perhaps take some time off and try again later. Bonding is stressful on the humans too and if you’re feeling worn out I suspect they pick up on that. When/if you start again you’ll likely be starting “over” in a way but that’s not always a bad thing.

[Troller]

Well lucky for me I’m not too stressed over it all. I guess i’m a little callous that way, I just don’t want them hurting each other because of my stubborness.

I’m sort of taking a break, about two weeks. I plan to try bonding them the way I see they do it in the UK. Putting the buns together in a neutral place until their bonded or you give up. I’ll see though because 48 hours probably isn’t enough but I can dedicate any more full time until October so we’ll have to see how it goes for that period, if it goes.

[Troller]

Today I made a bone headed mistake. While feeding the rabbits and switching their run times I let Xena out and forgot to put the locks on Conan’s cage and went promptly to sleep. I heard wrestling but I swear it sounded like my neighbors and not next room.

I managed to shake my stupor and realize what might be going on but luckily my wife who was moments from hoping into the shower also heard the commotion and separated them. A great personal feat for her because she’s kind of scared of getting in the mix and…well in her birthday suit all the more intimidating to try.

I checks both rabbits and while Conan had a lot of fur pulled they physically looked well. However, Conan seemed shell shocked the rest of the day. He didn’t want to go to his cage, he kept smearing poop on things and ate less then usual. At the end of the day though things were better, his poops all right and he was eating normal.

This weekend I’m putting them in a new neutral place to try to bond them. I plan to leave them there through the weekend with me right there observing. If things don’t go well in the meantime I’ll be building a permanent cage to house both of them separately. I’m not saying I’m giving up bonding them forever, just for now.

[Troller]

It’s amazing how much we’ll put out for these lil critters. Today I lost sleep, spent money and dedicated time to creating a temporary pen and neutral territory all for the chance to bond my buns.

The plan is to put Conan and Xena in the new 8 by 4 pen and wait them out the weekend. I plan to sleep next to them and hope for the very best while prepare for the intensely disappointing and dread the terrible worst. I’m ready to put a barrier in said pen if they fight way too hard. They’ll have to stay in this pen while I work on making and cleaning the permanent residence with an optional divider. If they play well then their new combined home will he ready. Play badly and well their 7 by 4 two floor condo becomes their 4 by 3 two floor dwelling. The smaller digs will suck for them but they generally get 12 hours out in the pet room and 5 of those hours throughout the apartment.

First snag. The Iris pens while nice and easy to clean and assemble, are very floppy assembling straight lined. This sucks because I’m very obsessive about measurements and on paper the set up fit to a T. Now I got a wobbly pen that stands up straight only when you set it up zig zagging, which further blows because it goes over the temp flooring I set up and onto the carpet. I got all night to figure that lil issue out so hopefully a better solution comes to me.

Well I got some work ahead of me so wish us luck. I’ll probably be updating this thing since I’ll he indoors the whole time.

[MoveDiagonally]

How did things go?

[Troller]

Thanks for inquiring MoveDiagonally. I wonder if it’s okay to plug another rabbit site since that’s where I’ve had my running blog on my 5 month bonding journey. If anyone is interested in my tribulations you can see it here

Shorthand though. First 24 hours was long stretches of peace with break outs of scuffles. The first 15 minutes I had to seperate them which made me almost stop the whole thing right there. I persevered and for 10hours things were quite. Another two scuffles occured an hour apart so I took them for a stress car ride. This did the trick for the first time and kept them relatively calm but i decided 8 hours later to take another car ride to cement it. From then on the next roughly 30 hours we’re quiet with no scuffles.

But it felt off. They could co-exist in a sense but Conan would run off every time Xena approached. Sometimes I swear Xena would goad Conan and come at him a little aggressive but again there was no fighting; they ate, pooped, drank and loafed around for a day and a half. I was disheartened and since to go to work I had a hard decision to make. 1) leave them in the date pen and hope nothing happens. 2) put them in the new cage in the newly sanatized and rearranged pet room together without dividers even though it’s meant for bonded rabbits. 3) divide the new cage and when the time comes sanatize once again (i mean I thoroughly cleaned the room top to bottom taking me two days). I chose option 3 as the safest even though it crushed me because i felt I would have to do it all over again and that my rabbits gave me nothing conclusive. If they fought bad I could have ended bonding entirely but that didn’t happen yet neither did they seem bonded.

Yesterday I get home from work and decide to experment and let both rabbits out at the same tims in the pet room which is their shared territory. Pleasantly surprised they acted the same as they did during the marathon, which they never did anything but attack each other in shared territory. Conan still ran, but they used each others things and toured each others cage section. At one point Xean and Conan were a foot apart in the same cage! So I was happy at that. Also ran a two hour date in the bond pen that went the same way. Well there was a moment of head to head lazing about, but Conan got spooked and ran. So now I’m cautiously optimistic that things just might be going well, however I’m also a little worried that it could be just stress from all the whirlwind changes and when things return to some normalacay so will their usual behavior.

[Troller]

Today 30 min in the shared and cage open area, 5 hours in the bond pen, and one 20 min drive. I was pleased to see Xena grooming Conan, and today Conan didn’t run away from her as much. But best of all we’ve had consecutive days (4 days) of multiple hours together and no scuffling. I feel that something is finally giving I just got to keep at it. Sadly though both my buns have plenty of little nicks and scratches to show for it and my wife questions if it isn’t a little abusive. Hell I question. I give them plenty of treats for their benifits and to assuage my guilt.

[Troller]

Today, or rather this weekend is a big one for me. I make what I feel is the last push in this bonding. Both rabbits have spent multiple hours, nearly days, with no fighting. They may not be cuddly but I can trust they can coexist without me physically being around and sleeping within earshot.

I started it with a drive. Last two times I did this you could tell Xena was spooked but as usual Conan was calm. So much in fact, and it may just be wishful thinking on my part, but I saw Conan grooming her and it seemed protecting her in the carrier. I truly don’t think I’m imagining it, but it is just a sense I got.

When I got back I put them in the cage (that i freshly sanitized again) with no divider and now I wait. Though its a bit cruel, I plan to keep them in the cage together with no out time until Sunday. Then I’ll let them out into the pet room, and a day or two later let them run the apartment and see what’s what.

[MoveDiagonally]

It doesn’t sound cruel that was I had to do when I cemented, keep them locked up together. Two in my trio weren’t super cuddly even after they were bonded but as time has gone on they’ve been getting closer and closer.

Best of luck!

[manic_muncher]

I don’t think it is cruel either. You know they will be much happier once they are bonded. It’s like raising a child, they might not like the rules you set, but you know what’s best for them and have to be the “bad guy” sometimes.

[Troller]

Hello folks. I believe i finally have bonded rabbits!

Now I shouldn’t jinx it, but they spent all weekend scuffle free in their cage and in the pet room. This after nearly two weeks being together almost non stop in neutral territory. Okay, there was one instance of a small amount of fur being pulled but that was either Friday or Saturday and might have been Xena’s patented get out of my way nip. Last night my wife told me there was a grooming war going on, with Xena chasing Conan to groom him, Conan grooming Xena and both grooming each other for long periods of time. Now they don’t seem like the cuddliest of bunnies but that may grow with time, or even if they’re never super affectionate as long as they don’t mind each others company and can live together freely. Tomorrow I may let them out into the living room and see how it goes but for now I just want to bask in the enjoyment of two rabbits chilling together in the same space.

Thank you all for your advice, your interest and most of all your positive thoughts that kept me going when I was almost ready to give up.
 

 

[MoveDiagonally]

Congrats Troller, Xena, and Conan!

[manic_muncher]

YAY! I’m so glad for you! Sounds like all your hard work has finally paid off. I hope things continue to go in the right direction!

[Author]

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