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The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.
After a year of being a single Bun family, I went to the SPCA and signed up to foster ( and hopefully adopt) a male rabbit named Jackson. He is being neutered on Friday and I am picking him up at the end of the day.
He is a sweet grey guy who has been there since July when he and another male rabbit were found dumped in a box. In Montreal, July 1 is the moving day, so pets tend to get dumped on or around July 1st. The staff don’t think he and the other male were bonded. They weren’t fighting but they didn’t seem overly fond of one another either.
I held him for awhile, and he chinned me a bit – then he went back to the safety of his litter box.
He is going to live in my daughters room while he recovers – to allow Coco to remain Queen Bee of her domain in my bedroom, and introduce them in a neutral space.
I let Coco smell me when I got back. She was both offended then fascinated. I took of the shirt I wore and let her sniff, sniff, sniff it. Then she started grooming it – which I took as a somewhat positive sign.
I am going to start reading through the archives here as we start this adventure with Coco. I know we will have to let Jackson heal from his neuter and get used to his very new surroundings.
Wish us good luck and strong bunny bond vibes!
That’s wonderful!
{{{{{{{Bunny Luuuuuvvvvvv vibes}}}}}}}}}}
Well, three days into Having Jackson we saw Coco’s opening move.
He is VERY interested in her – which I suspect is the hormones ( he as neutered on Friday) He stands at the gate of my daughters room Staring out into the hall, hoping against hope that she is coming over.
She is free roam, so she can choose to come out and hop over to the gate and see him. My thought was that this was a way for them to check each other out over the next few weeks while he heals and his hormones calm down ( he is a honking maniac)
Coco came over and mocked him – openly. She sits out in the hall and demands to be groomed by Us. She will look up at him, then turn her back and demand more grooming. Ok. Not bad I think.
He honks and stares hopefully. She ignores.
Later she hopped over and there was a nose to nose meet. He tries to chin her through the NIC cube, she backs up and hops to another side. He follows. He turns…she nips at his bum. Like I was sitting RIGHT there monitoring them and she was super fast. She only took a tiny bit of hair- not even a “clump” and I shooed her away.
Now I am worried that this is a sign of things to come. I was hoping against hope that I would have an easy bonding ( I know, right – I don’t know why I thought that) And I was hoping that this “being able to see each other and smell each other” would allow them to acclimate to one another
Am I expecting too much? Should I block off sight to him as well as access? Am I looking at a pair for stress bonding?
Well…The boy just gave Coco and I quite a fright.
They have been getting along ( within the bounds) just fine. She wanders over twice a day – usually in the morning and later afternoon to visit with him. She chooses the time, entirely, as she is not a Bun to be forced into anything.
Jackson continues to heal from his neuter on Friday. Some minor swelling in the left side, but not anything terrible. Eating great – his hay intake is way up as evidenced by his much better looking poops, and I am limiting his pellets to the “before bed” meal that it is for Coco. He was having unlimited pellets in the shelter, and as he is a good hay eater I would prefer that he just adjust to the change now. He is still a bit “skunky” – and I did check his anal glands when I was checking the sutures. They look clean, just a bit skunky. Again, I blame the hormones.
No nipping between them in the last couple of gate visits. Coco presents nose for grooming, Jackson looks hopeful ( and thank you Jenn for the videos with Jack – Jackson has the same hopeful ears forward, tail up “Hey Baby, wanna roll in the hay?” stance that Jack had when staring at Vivian) Jackson doesn’t groom. Coco leaves. Jackson dances around and Coco comes back. Offers her nose, he stares intensely. Rinse, Repeat.
Eventually Coco gets sick of him and goes back to the bedroom.
Except today Jackson didn’t want to take No thanks for an answer, apparently. They had their evening visit. I gave them each banana and lots of praise. Coco hops back to her room. Jackson stays in his room.
Coco and I are in the bedroom – chilling out. The fans are all on as it has been ridiculously humid in Montreal. I hear a noise. Hmm. Thats funny. Maybe Jackson is playing in his room ( where my daughter is out cold). Hear the noise again. Sitting up in time to see Jackson CHARGING into the bedroom – Hopeful stance. Coco is horrified and runs for her maze haven. I jump up and herd him back out into the hall towards his space. There is NO WAY I want him in her space yet.
Jackson had pulled the X-Pen gate back, away from the door frame in order to give him enough space to get over the side so he can make his break for it. I got him back in the room and had to wedge the broom handle into the gate to keep it from moving while I reassured Coco and then got them both their bedtime pellets
He was pulling the gate with his TEETH. He wasn’t aggressive to her when he got in here, just that same frantic “I LOVE YOU” look. She wanted nothing to do with him.
I assume this is hormones? Driving him crazy? I did give him a stunt double to hump – he started to and then abandoned it.
Coco is such a subtle bun – her movements are small and exact. He is a lumbering galloof. I lay with him in his room in the morning and afternoon and try to figure him out. Doesn’t like having nose rubs , will bump your hand, then try to nip if you respond by rubbing. Not bite hard, but a nip for sure.
Today he was definitely crabby – and at one point he stretched out his nose, I responded by extending my hand and he gave me the two paw scratch, nip move.
Any thoughts? Is seeing her even a little just TOO much for him until his hormones calm?
Jacksons hormones are clearly dying down – much less honking now. He also seems to be slowly “getting it”that she wants snuggles, not mounting. This morning she chose to visit him ( She will hop out into the hall and present her self at the gate to the room he is in and wait) I let her in and sat with them. Generally, she stays for about 30 minutes, then she just can’t bear it anymore and leaves.
This morning he was enthusiastic, but less frantic. She presents the nose for grooming. He will now rest his chin on top of her nose. She will wait.
If he starts to move as if he is going to try to head mount, she takes off, but as long as he stays still, she will stay nose to nose. Today he let me pet him while they were nose touching. I praised him for being gentle with her, and when he started to move to mount, I held him back. This gives her time to pop up, recoup and move without being so startled and getting the aggressive bun stance.
I almost thought I saw some preliminary grooming by him to her the other day…until he tried to mount her head and she fled.
Yesterday was the first day he really allowed me to give him a head/nose rub. He seems suspicious of it – and will start to relax into the rub…then suddenly come to with a little Box at my hands.This is followed by a nip..which I am not sure if he is asking for more…but doesn’t quite know how yet.
Anyways – she chooses to visit him twice a day pretty faithfully, so I am hopeful of a good bond in several weeks.
We are seeing progress. They are both actively engaged in the tandem – but about 2 feet apart stretch out of the
“I am more relaxed than you” stage. They are also choosing to eat together – I place out their food At the same time in each of their respective rooms. They start out eating at their spots, then hop between the two rooms and will eat a couple of pieces together.
I’ve still seen no active Grooming, but she did “invite” him into her space in my bedroom today. This is where they did the tandem kick out.
He still gets a bit hopeful around her, but she is incredibly both patient AND not interested in allowing him to mount at ALL. She just runs circles around him and keeps moving – hasn’t gotten nippy, just a firm “No thanks” to his hopeful advances.
They still have their own “rooms” and have to hop down the hall to see one another. Its been going well, so I took down the gate today for the full day. Only once did I have to send him back to his room because she looked exhausted and fed up. After and hour or so apart, she chose to go and see him again. In fact, she just hopped down the hall to see where he was.
No more Honking from Him – and his “need” to mount is diminished – no interest in his stunt double.
They still maintain separate sleeping quarters, and that is the only time he is caged.
Its not love at first sight, but in the rabbit world, its been pretty darn close.
Maybe those hormones are starting to diminish. That is so novel how they can go and visit one another!
The eating/sharing is a good sign as eating is a social activity. Thing look like they’re on track.
Does Jackson settle ok if you pet him on the forehead? Sometimes Jersey will paw at me if my hand goes directly in front of her nose. If I pet on top of her head then next stroke, nose up to forehead, she’s fine. I think sometimes if my hand approached from that blind spot they have – it freaks her.
Thats a good question Jersey – He is still a bit flighty overall. He is calming down and actually seems to be getting “it” that when I tap the floor, I am requesting to groom him – but he is still wary of where my hands are – If I move when he is approaching, he will bolt.
Of course, aside from being a shelter bun, I have no idea what his conditions were previously, and I suspect he wasn’t a free roam bun the way we allow him to be. At this stage, Coco barely looks at us when we walk right next to her, so his jumpiness still startles US.
This morning, he came galloping in to see her and she was not prepared for him, she tried to maneuver around him and knocked something over. He bolted for under the bed and THUMPED. It was the first time I have heard his thump – its thunderous. Coco was staring at Me – I am staring at the thumping bed….Comedy of errors.
They only do the full fledged poop wars in my daughters room, so every time they have been in there, it is a poop extravaganza. Also, today they added urine to their war of the bodily secretions, so I spent my afternoon scrubbing the edges of the rabbit rugs with vinegar and thyme oil.
He doesn’t mark my bedroom – which i seems odd to me, as this is Cocos prime territory. But the other room is where HIS litter box is, so maybe it is because of that (?)
Today is nearly day three of them being uncaged and visiting back and forth, and there has been no aggression ( aside from the urine/poop wars). Right now, he is under the bed in my room – and she is in His room – Just came hopping on back into the bedroom and is looking around for him.
In a week of two, I plan on moving him into my bedroom full time and seeing how they do with that change. The rugs will remain out so they can escape into the other bedroom if need be, but I am hopeful that this is going smoothly and without much drama.
Oh I know that scenario! Jersey I think ‘forgets’ that Rumball is about and sometimes if he appears at a chair she’s snoozing behind, she startles and is like a bat outta hell. And he always left looking confused. I can usually hear him coming so don’t know why she doesn’t with her ears. Think the tune out house sounds but when something enters their vision – look out!
I’ve had Rumball since April and he is still wary of hands. You can reach out a foot and pet him no worries but hands are another story. I find it hard to get used to as well, as like Coco, Jersey is pretty well unfazed by me. I have found I can pet Rumball with an item (usually my slipper) and then after a while start using my hand. He’s slowly becoming better. You may find you won’t personally get the same bond with Jackson that you have with Coco. For him Coco will be the no. 1 girl.
Another day, another Day.
So Jackson had to be put in his room for awhile. He was relentless with Coco and she began to get annoyed – she showed this by doing that tail wag thing as she was fleeing his non-stop advances. I am all DUDE – you need to warm her up before you can just expect to Mount her! Running her down like a lion does a gazelle does not endearment make.
So he went back to his room and the gate went back up. She rested. Gratefully.
He was annoyed – grabbing the gate with his teeth and pulling it back. Quite the persistent suitor.
Now Coco has been fairly generous with her space with him. She hasn’t been terribly protective of Her space and doesn’t even flinch when he hops in her cage to snack on her hay. I take all of these are really good signs – she clearly Wants to get along with him and even when he got put back into his room, she hopped out and touched noses with him through the gate. She seeks him out But his Incessant Chasing really ticks her off.
So, after a good break I decided to do a quick car ride with them.
It was a good thing – they snuggled together and while he clearly Wanted to mount her, but didn’t because he was too freaked out by the car ride. At one point, she even lay her head over his and he pushed himself further back into the carrier. Only 1 mounting attempt and I bumped the carrier which was enough for him to give it up for the duration.
We got home, opened the carrier – she hopped out went to the Maze Haven – He stayed put inside the carrier for quite a while.
When he came back out, he was Mr Chase and Pursue again. So back into his room he went.
She tried to visit him ( so she hopped up to the gate and I let her in the room where I was with them) but he just couldn’t stop chasing. So she left.
I am really hoping that as his hormones continue to die down he calms down around her. She clearly WANTS to hang with him. She lays down, feet splayed out, she eats….Only to jump up and run as Jackson the Love Machine gallops towards her.
He has a vet visit tomorrow – as a followup from the neuter and an overall Well Bunny visit.
Wow, it sounds like you’ve been pretty busy with those 2! It sounds to me like it’s going okay though. They clearly like each other, him maybe just a little too much, hehe. Plus, so soon after neuter, I think he’s probably still pretty hormonal!
You might let the chasing go on for a bit longer. I bonded my two using the “wear down” method. Just put them together straight away for 24 hrs/day. The first day there was a TON of running in circles and mounting. Ivy really really really wanted to mount Samson and would chase him lots and he wanted none of it. Since there wasnt any agression I just left them together like this watching them closely. After about 45 min of chasing one another the both settled down and were alright. They were in a smallish bonding area 4X3 so the chasing was just in circles in there and they really couldn’t escape one another but EVENTUALLY they stopped the chasing and would just lay there. The second morning there was more of this chasing going on but it only lasted about 30 min. That night around 11pm lots of chasing for 45min-1hr (right around the 1 hr mark the chasing got more agressive (grabbing onto fur while chasing) so I seperated them for an hour so they both could rest). By the third day they chased for 20 min and then a short time again at night maybe for 20-30 min. And now at the 1 week mark there is still some chasing/mounting at night for maybe 5 min or so at a time. But it is so so so much better. Maybe you have to let the chasing/mounting work its self out….. I know its hard to watch them chase one another but I forced myself to not break it up unless the buns looked like they were going to start nipping. I also would occassionally just talk to them and they would stop it then I would push them next to eachother and give lots of pets. But maybe if you set them up in a smaller area and just let them be for a few hours they would work out their “differences”.
Sorry for the ages between updates, friends. This will be a longish update.
Jackson has healed beautifully from his neuter – he went to the vet a week ago on Thursday and had a great check up – we have to visit again in 6 months for a teeth check – his licking reflex was so strong the vet had a hard time getting a god look at the left side of his mouth – we may have one tooth slightly longer than another – but we will go in for the re-check. A Nice and healthy boy – Young. Most likely younger than we originally thought. A Gray Chinchillia rabbit…leaning towards the “Giant” variety. He’s most likely going to be a BIG boy when he stops growing. A funny match for my 4 pound Dutch girl!
So – I had them mostly separate in rooms with limited visitation – Until I went to Maine for a week on Aug 22nd. I left my husband with instructions. I showed him how to clean the litter boxes ( because he had NEVER done it before)
Oh dear me. Deary deary me. The phone calls from the MAN were insane. By Wednesday morning, he calls me from Montreal in Maine and tells me that he thinks Coco is vomiting – so I flip out – I start calling the vet from Maine to prepare them for Coco to arrive ASAP and be checked out, because of course – all my Rabbit Mom fears are coming true…But this isn’t all – he has called me EVERY DAY TWICE A DAY to tell me in graphic and horrified detail of the urine and poop wars.
Well – The vet talks to my husband – Its half chewed food the rabbits decided they hated and spit out. I calm down. I tell him AGAIN to keep them apart – Keep Jackson in his room and Coco in her room and they won’t have the poop and urine wars.
He ignores me – lets them have free run, 100% whenever they like visitation. They proceed to pee ALL OVER THE HOUSE. He calls me to complain about the urine Wars. Thank god I was drinking heavily for the week.
So – as I drive home from Maine to Montreal, I stop and buy new litterboxes for the two of them because I have a plan. When I get home, my bedroom will be vinegared and completely disinfected – every rug washed and dried to destroy Coco’s smell. New boxes – Fresh rugs – and they get side by side litterboxes.
Bam. WE are going Whole hog here. And we have. I got home at 2 p.m. today – Everything is cleaned and washed. The new litterboxes are in residence. Each of them has picked one ( with the hay trough in the middle). I lay a plastic tablecloth over the top of the rugs and have my spray bottle at the ready. And we have been in the same room since about 4 p.m.
I’ve seen Coco present twice ( full down) for grooms. But Jackson hasn’t reciprocated. She hasn’t groomed him either. But they have eaten together – side by side in litter box munching hay.
She isn’t being possessive, so I think that the disinfection worked. But yeah. I decided that since we have not seen any overt aggression ( and they seem to be seeking each other out frequently – even though they had the pee wars) I was going to let it roll. They seem to tolerate each other – while not in love yet.
He is in the Maze and she is mid room having a good self groom. I am not ready to call them bonded – but they aren’t at it hammer and tongs so I am just going to wear them down.
So this is the new way I set up their litter – They seem to do well with it – I have seen them switiching sides of their own volition. I disinfected and descented everything – bought brand new litterboxes for each of them, moved it to a new side of the room and tried to make it as neutral space as I could.
Plus the tasty hay is RIGHT in the middle.
So tonight, I watched them hop around each other …and then jackson hopped over, started to look “Mount” hopeful….then just flopped down.
I am not ready to call them fully bonded, but I think we are darn close….
Oh they look sweet! I think you’re on the home straight. There’s a point where you just trust them to sort out any differences themselves without fear of it escalating into a full on fight.
I thought the hay/litter setup sounded good when you said before. Now I can see it. Thanks! It’s looks a good idea – I might try that. Though I know both bunnies will put their butts in the hay space between anyway!
Coco likes to sit her little behind in the hay trough – Jackson is too big and lumbering to fit in there, but I have no doubt that he would do it if he could.
I knew I wanted them to share the big cage bottom, and Coco had a Giant Corner litter pan before – But I figured that in order to for them to give ground I had to make them separate and equal in the litter pans – Also those large pans ( for 3 bucks each!) can give them the “I am eating next to you, while still not invading my space” and they are super easy to clean – I pop one out, rinse it, dry it, put the YN back in and pop it back in, then do the other one. I use the leftover hay in the middle to spread on top and then refresh the hay.
But the Key for these two was completely de-scenting the room. Washed all the rugs, the floor underneath with vinegar and that “Pet Enzyme” stuff, then the bottom pan with vinegar and HOT water with baking soda. Once they entered into the room on equal scent terms with those litter pans, I have seen Zero Poop wars and No more peeing all over the place on the rugs.
I think we are on a home stretch too!
And because I had to open my big mouth and say there were no more poop or urine wars, I was CURSED.
This Morning, in full Glory, In Front of the Litter box a ton of Jackson poos…
The best I can figure out is that SHE is the pee’er and HE is the Pooper – She pees in a spot ( usually the edge of a rug) and he goes crazy trying to cover it up with his poop.
So I grabbed all the affected rugs up to be washed, re-washed down the floor with the vinegar/hot water/pet enzyme thing, cleaned out both their litter boxes ( which I am doing nearly every day right now to keep them on equal terms) and set them up again.
A small step backward, but not the end of the world.
I was so tickled to see them even quasi-snuggling last night, I am willing to go on Pee/Poop duty at 7:30 in the morning!
Just wanted to say that I enjoyed your story here, I’m going through the bonding process myself with 2 sets of 2 (same name as the title of my story) and found alot of similarities with one of my pairs and your two bunnies! I definately know the frantic “LOVE ME!” look! I see it quite often in my apartment! Benny, our albino male, is relentless with the mounting. Our female, Flo, is getting pretty sick of it. She will present herself for grooming and Benny interprets that as “go ahead and mount me!” Well, just wanted to say good luck with the poo and urine wars as I am in the trenches too! If you find a “solution” for that, please post!! Keep us posted!!!!
Yes that is a good story and I enjoyed reading it step by step! Glad things are working out for Jackson and Coco That is a great litter box set up too.
An Update here too. I wrote a bit about the poo and urine wars that broke out in earnest here in the behavior thread:
https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aff/3/aft/106892/afv/topic/afpgj/1/Default.aspx#130728
As to their bond – well. It is hard to say. They live together. They tolerate one another. Sometimes they even lay side by side.
Coco has now lost her fear of the hardwood floor in her occasional quest to GET AWAY from Jackson. We found her in the living room behind the couch this morning. Previously, if there wasn’t a rug down, she wouldn’t walk on it. Not anymore. Shes gotten MUCH bolder since Jackson.
They are now caged at night and I kind of hope that it is helping them figure out the hierarchy. He still tries to mount her a couple of times a day – but not super aggressively the way he was after his neuter. She dodges and runs.
She presents for grooming and he gets all hopeful so he vaguely pretends to start grooming her ( sniffing mostly) and then tries to sneak in a head mount. She leaves him and he stands there looking a bit dashed.
On the up side, he is less skittish with me – doesn’t bolt so much when I give him rubs. I even had a nice nose rub session with both of them blissed out. It was the first time he truly let me touch him for longer than a few seconds.
She is molting – Big Time, so I spend lots of floor time, nose rubbing and plucking her loose fur. I have noticed that he gets a bit “jealous” when I am rubbing her for too long and will sneak up and try to mount her when she is all zen like that. I won’t let him and he boxes at me with his paws. He threw in a few nip attempts this morning – not hard bites, but nips for sure and the front digging paws motion. I turned him away with my hand and blocked her out of sight. Maybe i am inhibiting their bond, but I feel like she has done a really good job sharing her space and some uninterrupted grooming with no one sneaking up and jumping on you only seems fair.
I know it is silly but I keep thinking “If I was at the salon having my head massaged and shampooed and suddenly my not quite kinda boyfriend jumped on my head and starting humping away – I would be PISSED”
As to the Poo and urine wars – Caging at night seems to be the answer for the moment.They war it up in the confines of the box and then seem satisfied. I also switched back to the YN litter because I just could not take a litter protest on top of everything else. I just couldn’t.
I suspect that neither of them is willing to thrown in their dominant claim and they are just going to have to come to some Bunny agreement over time. I also suspect that I will need to give Coco some “Only Her” space where Jackson can’t jump in and take over. She seems to really have that need of a “room of her own.”
Bonding Bunnies is really hard work.
LOL! That HAS to be the line of the week on BB.com. You know the one I’m talking about!!!
I was looking at the pictures you added again and you know what?……Coco reminds me of Elizabeth the First. Fair, ‘red’ hair and a big white ruff.
Gah!
I think you are right.
Same attitude and everything…..
And who did I bring home? Francis Bacon? Nope. Shakespeare? Nope.
I bring home the Forrest Gump of rabbits with less manners ( see his head humping attempts with NO grooming offers, what gal could resist?)
I just read the whole thread! Whew! Very interestingHow’s the bonding going now??
Well, I am no expert, But I am going to call them Pretty well bonded. There is no aggression between them and some companionship, but it doesn’t seem to be full out Sparkley Rabbit Love.
All in all, they stil seem to be working out their roles with each other. Coco is infinately patient and Jackson seems to have figured out that the head hump attempt is a sure way to get abandoned by Coco Super fast. He remains skittish and still somewhat food obsessed ( but that is getting better slowly with regular feedings)
The poo wars stopped – then started again, then stopped, then started again. Caging them at night seems to make their litter skills perfect during the day. I tried a few days ago to let them go free roam during the night after two VERY LOUD nights of clanging and carrying on in the cage. Night One, no problem with the pee/poop. Night 2 – a few poops, but by no means shocking – Night Three, the war is ON! I may just have to get earplugs and suffer through the cacophany of rabbit disapproval.
On the up side, Jackson is allowing ME to groom him now, with much less boxing at my hand. I even started getting tooth purrs this week when he finally relaxed enough to allow a full on nose, cheek and behind ear scratch. When I would stop, he would binky from a laying down position, regain his composure and come back shyly to ask for more. But he is by no means the affectionate bun Coco has remained. Perhaps slowly, but he is still observing and deciding if he can fully trust us.
He does seem somewhat terratorial of HER – and if we are on the floor and she is laying with us, he MUST come and stick his nose into what is going on. Again, she was the lone Bun for a good year, so she remains on different terms with us. He will get mad and foot flick us and she will just stare at him like he is crazy.
They do Lay together Much more frequently. I have still seen very little grooming behaviors, although Coco asks, constantly. She does not groom him. She will now tolerate him sneaking up behind her – where he will lay his head on her bum instead of making a mount attempt. If he does get too familiar, she flicks him off with the tail flutter of annoyance and a small foot flick.
All in all, it goes well. They are still acclimating to one another. I wonder if she would have chosen differently and assume that she would have if she had been allowed to more freely choose ( and had that been an option for us) – But they seem companionable and really, I am happy with that.
But I must say, one the of the most amusing things is seeing such a different play style between them. He is a tosser and a thrower. She, a chewer and problem solver.
In conclusion, we went and finished the paperwork today at the SPCA for his adoption. I found out a bit more about where he was found – he had been abandoned in an apartment complex – he and another male. They were very very hungry when found as it had been a good two weeks since the previous human set them free. This explains some of his food panic.
We were “officially” fostering him during the bonding and have now finalized his paperwork. We are his forever home. Many of the rabbits who I visited today were new, nearly all of Jacksons “cohort” had been succesfully adopted – but there were many new faces. A Mom and her five baby buns had just been dropped off the day before! Lets continue to remind folks to go Rescue!
They sound like they are enjoying eachother! My trio still has their moments where they get annoyed with one another. Congrats on him “finally” being yours!!! Yay for Coco and Jackson!
Congrats on being his official forever parent It sounds like they are doing really well. Laying next to each other, and him coming to investigate whenever when you are petting HIS girl is really cute!
When you cage them at night, are they caged separately or together? Where in the cage are the poop and pee wars going on? Is there any way you could put another litterbox in that area? Maybe that would stop them from pooping and peeing so much there.