Choking!

[mrmac]

I think he is ok now but has anyone ahd any experience with this? I read Mimz’s old thread about Mimzy possibly choking. I gave Dennis a papaya tablet and it seemed like part of it got stuck or something. He was like gagging and making weird noises almost coughing, sticking his tounge out trying to move whatever was in the way. I grabbed hima nd put my finger in his mouth to see if I could feel anything and tried to force some water down him. those little gaggy squeaks did not sound good. He looked like he was almost sneezing but not. He isn’t doing it anymore but I am still keeping an eye on him.

[Elrohwen]

Hmm. It’s possible it got stuck in his teeth or something too. That sounds scary though! I don’t really have any advice, but I hope it was just a one time thing.

[mrmac]

I gave him some fresh hay and he went and ate so I think he is ok but still had a little moment of panic.

[MimzMum]

Poor Den! Yes, watching a bunny try to forcibly bring something up when we know they do not vomit is terrifying! Hugs to you! I’m glad to see he seems to be okay now. This is why I never leave my buns with any treats to chew by themselves, or things that are of a certain size, like the tablets. I never know when something is going to go down the wrong tube.

I had one experience I don’t want to repeat with a cookie-like ‘bunny bite’ that Mimz got turned the wrong way and he almost didn’t get it down. Luckily the whole episode was over in a few seconds and I didn’t even have time to react before he got the item back in his mouth, chewed and swallowed.
Perhaps a piece just broke away and got caught in a fold in his throat…have you ever had something like that happen? Usually happens to me when eating popcorn, one of the husks will get stuck part of the way and you practically cough up a lung trying to get it out.
There IS a Heimlich maneuver for bunnies, but it is similar to ones used for babies where you put the bun on your arm and hold him securely while swinging your arms towards the floor, but I’ve never seen it done and would be too scared to try it myself without generous instruction beforehand.
There is a link floating around in the ethers of BB.com to this technique. I think it was a YouTube video. Posted WAY back though.

[mrmac]

That is interesting, a bunny heimlich?! I will have to ask my vet about that, I am trying to get them all in soon. It was scary! he will still get the tablets but they have to be broken up from now on! When he took it from my hand it looked like it went in vertically instead of flat. He was laying later in the day, almost on his back fast asleep, eyes completely shut. I made the kissy noise which means treats, and he didn’t move, I poked him, nothing…poked again and he finally snapped out of his coma sleep! If he had not had the choking episode this morning I wouldn’t have been so freaked out by it. He was out like a light!

[jerseygirl]

This is the info I have saved on the maneuver. One of Dana Krempels replies on all.experts I think. First time I heard of it was on BB, I think it was DallasDelight who mentioned it when one of hers had a choking episode. Scary! Glad to hear Dennis managed to move the offending piece!
 

A choking rabbit is always a terrifying emergency, and one must act quickly if the airway is completely blocked. If the airway is NOT completely blocked, and the rabbit is coughing, then it may be best to let the bunny cough up the offending particle.

If the bunny is extremely distressed, you can help him cough up the particle with a modified Heimlich maneuver: while carefully supporting the back and neck, hold bunny so the nose is pointing towards the ground, and firmly (but gently) press upwards against the diaphragm. This can help expel air from the lungs and dislodge anything stuck in the trachea.

In extreme cases, when it’s life or death, I have actually stabilized a bunny very firmly between my forearms so that the back and neck are absolutely immobile, and then *swung* the bunny from a horizontal position to one where the bunny’s nose is pointing downward. The shifting weight of the internal organs that results from this rapid motion pushes hard against the diaphragm, and can force air out of the lungs to dislodge a stuck particle.

I hope you never have to use this technique, as it’s not without risk (if you lose your grip or drop the bunny, it could be disastrous). But if there is no other choice, it can save a life.

Hope this helps.

Dana

Edit: Source^ http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-…king-1.htm    Tada!

[mrmac]

I am having a hard time getting a mental picture of this!

[jerseygirl]

Yeah, I know. I’m not really liking the “swing” part. I reckon I would try first just holding them head facing downward and pray gravity do it’s thing.

[mrmac]

I will have to ask my vet to show me just for future reference too.

[BinkyBunny]

I learned the swing part in a recent HRS Seminar. It doesn’t look as bad as it sounds, but with that said…it is hard to imagine. I know that the HRS now sells videos of their seminars and the first one “Enhanced Rabbit Health” should have that technique in there since they did discuss it the day I was there at that particular seminar.

mrmac — Yikes, how scary! Kkeep a close eye on your bunny as there is a risk of pneumonia developing when a bunny aspirates. (Your bunny I’m sure will be fine, but I just want to let you know so you can keep an extra eye out for this)

Also, if this happens again, I would avoid forcing water down as they could make it worse — that’s where a bunny really could aspirate.

Anyway, I’m sorry you had to go through that and I am very glad all is well now. Whew!

[RabbitPam]

I think jersey may have just quoted this, but here is the link BB provided in response to MM’s prior post. Haven’t found the video of it yet, however.

en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/pet…Rabbit.htm

[jerseygirl]

Thanks RP. You’ve covered my butt! I was too lazy earlier to chase down the actual reference.

edit: Gosh darn it! Not the same one. Now I’ll have to be a good girl and find the reference and add it to my original post.

[skibunny8503]

I had an experience with this with Mickey. He was eating the pellets with the junky food in it (this was before I found BB) and there was dried carrots in it and he had eaten one and it must have gotten stuck but he didn’t exhibit any of the choking signs, I think it was more or less just caught in his throat. He kept moving his mouth like there was something in it and I got a flashlight to see why he was doing that and saw a big piece of carrot in his throat. We couldn’t get to it with fingers so I took him to the vet. Apparently he swallowed a big piece which got stuck and kept getting bigger when it got wet. It was a good thing we saw that and took him to the vet because she said he was starting to turn blue and got it out. I hope he’s ok, just keep an eye on him.

[Deleted User]

Maybe dried papaya pieces are safer to give. Glad he was fine. How scary. It is always Dennis, isn’t it?

[Deleted User]

Also, this would be a good test question to see if a vet is rabbit-savvy:”can you show me how to do the Heimlich on a bunny”?

[Dee]

That’s a good idea, Petzy! Only a vet that really knows rabbits would be able to answer that one. Omg, I would be terrified if one of my buns was choking. I like to think that I would keep my composure and quickly do the right thing and save them, but I can’t even bring myself to trim their toenails! I’m such a wimp with them… and it’s weird cuz with my kids, I’m all matter-of-fact and calm with emergencies.

I’m gonna cut their papaya chunks up into tiny pieces now- the way they gulp them down is just an accident waiting to happen. I’m glad to hear that everyone’s bunny made it through their choking experiences- what a horrible thing to have to go through (for you guys and the bunnies!).

[mrmac]

Yes it is always Dennis! It happened again with just a quarter of one so I have decided to just stick with the dried fruit pieces! Hopefully my vet will be able to show me how to do it properly!

[BinkyBunny]

Oh, no…happened again? How scary. Has he ever shown any signs of tooth issues before? I know Rucy’s tooth spurs would sometimes catch food food up in her gum area, and though she never choked, she would move her mouth around as if to get something out of her teeth, and then she’d start munching on whatever it was that came loose.

Many times spurs can go unnoticed until there is a problem and spurs can eventually make it painful or difficult to chew. It’s not the only reason for choking of course, but it is the first place I think of.

[Sarita]

I agree with BB, have him checked for molar spurs.

[jerseygirl]

Poor Dennis! You think he’d be afraid of the papaya tabs now. Ditto on the teeth. Also, are the those tablets really dry (like chalk)? You know when you put something dry in your mouth and it gets stuck real quick to the palate or side of your mouth? Maybe it’s something like that too… how does he go with his pellets?

[mrmac]

He scarfs his pellets, loves them. He has never made any movements like it is hard for him to chew or something was stuck, just with the tablets. He loves his hay, loves his veggies. The tablets being so dry was my first thought. The second time it happened was not nearly as bad as the first. Before we adopted him I asked about his teeth since his old owner had him on a pellet only diet and the rescue lady said that his teeth had checked out by the vet.

[BinkyBunny]

Sometimes spurs can develop later- How long ago did the vet check his teeth? I know with Rucy, she could still eat – It really depends on where the spurs are, how they are angled and how much they have grown. Again, I’m not saying your bunny has spurs, it’s just that the fact a bunny still eats doesn’t mean spurs are not developing. I think if it happens again, you may want to have him checked out anyway to try and figure out why this is happening to prevent a serious episode. Hopefully it is just a Papaya Tablet Fluke thing

[mrmac]

I will have the vet check, I am trying to get them all in in the next month or so. We have only had him since June.

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