Change in urination habits, health issue?

[Ellie from The Netherlands]

Breintje is a 4-year old neutered Netherland dwarf. He has been on a weight-loss regimen for the last year, including more leafy greens and less pellets. He gets 35 g of pellets in the morning and the tops of 3-4 carrots and some extra greens in the evening. It has worked quite well, he slimmed down from 1600 g to 1200 g in a little over a year. His weight is now stable.

Over the last two weeks we’ve noticed some changes in his urination habits, my BF and me talked about it and we noticed some things:

– His peeing has become louder over the last two weeks (not noticeable immediately, but it sounds more and more like a water pistol being squirted).

– His pee is suddenly clearer, nearly the colour of water or only slightly yellow. The volume has increased as well, it’s not as concentrated as before.

– There was no increase or decrease in his drinking habits.

– Yesterday and today he peed all over his cage in a big splash twice now, both in the evening about 1,5 hours after his leafy greens. Both times he sat in his litter box with his rear over the side, and let it goooo

 

Otherwise there were no changes: he’s active, eating well, cuddly and begging for treats as usual. I’m concerned, but my BF says that it may be due to the vegetables (he compares it to humans also get clearer urine when we get more fluids).

Is this a cause for a vet visit, or are there things we should check or change first?

[LittlePuffyTail]

If his veggie amount/type has not changed but his urine habits have changed I would suggest a vet visit. Impossible to say without a vet whether it could be the beginnings of a UTI or bladder issue.

Crossing my fingers it’s nothing!

[vanessa]

Id get him checked. Your vet can manually express his bladder for a urinalysis. You said he peed all over his cage. Did u mean he peed outside his normal pee-spot?

[Ellie from The Netherlands]

Thank you for your advice LPT and vanessa. I’ve called the vet immediately this morning and they wanted to see him today. Appointment is in 1,5 hours. He’ll be soooo delighted.

Vanessa: yes, he peed outside of his normal spot. Normally he does it in his litterbox in the back of the cage, but his time he squirted his pee all over the cage in a loud stream. Two days ago it was completely clear like water, and yesterday there was a little colour but still very light and a lot of volume.

[jerseygirl]

Best of luck at the vet! I hope you can get some answers.

[Ellie from The Netherlands]

There was a new vet in the office. Breintje, of course, was delighted to make her acquaintance… You’re going to put what???Where????On our first date??AAAAGH! O.O

She inspected him thoroughly and she couldn’t find a problem. He is healthy, active, and not dehydrated. We have to check on him regularly to see if he doesn’t start to drink a lot. If that happens we need to get back ASAP. Also, if the problem persists we have to take a urine sample for testing.

[Q8bunny]

The fact that he pees over the side of his box makes me think that he might be trying to press his bladder to relieve discomfort that’s not otherwise obvious.

It’s great that he seems ok to the vet but a urinalysis might not be a bad idea anyways

[vanessa]

Forceful peeing like that could mean different things. I don’t have enough experience to comment on the color change. I agree with Q8bunny about trying to relieve discomfort. It could also be a knee-jerk reaction to a full bladder from an inability to pee normally. Does he pee les often or more volume? I know that cloudy pee “can” be part of a UTI. But not in every bunny. Lancelot’s pee is normally clear. My other bunny’s pee is normally cloudy. Is his pee more stinky than usual?I’d do the urinalysis.

[Ellie from The Netherlands]

Thank you for the advice everyone We’ll monitor him closely and if he doesn’t do better in 2-3 days, then we’ll do the analysis.
I cleaned his litter box today and I saw different kinds of pee. The freshest one was clear and as dark as usual, still not fully absorbed by the wood pellets. There were several spots where he had peed yesterday, and they were lighter. I did give him less greens yesterday night. Oh dear, I hope we haven’t been overfeeding him with his bunny salads :/

[Ellie from The Netherlands]

After a week of observation we noticed the following things:

– He has very light pee in the evening about 1,5 hours after eating his greens and herbs.
– The rest of the day his pee is its usual darker colour.
– For some reason he pees a lot more when he has had parsley.
– His drinking remains normal.
– There were no more accidents with him peeing over the side of the litter box.
– We didn’t hear him strain or the stream make a lot of noise while peeing.

We have stopped giving him parsley just out of safety. It seems to have an effect. Is parsley a known diuretic for bunnies?

We’re also keeping his amount of veggies a bit lower for a while, to see if feeding it all at once is a problem.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Parsley is a pretty strong diuretic in humans so I don’t see why it would be any different for bunnies.

[Azerane]

I was not aware of that fact about parsley, definitely something to keep in mind, thanks

[vanessa]

That all sounds perfectly normal. Sometimes bunnies hang their butts over the edge of their litterboxes and pee over the side by accident. Different color pee at different times of the day reflects their eating patterns, as certain veggies produce darker urine. I notice that Lancelot pees darkly after eating. But first thing in the mornign, after drinking 2 cups of water at night, his pee is very clear. As long as the location of the pee normalizes, it sounds normal to me.

[Q8bunny]

Parsley infusion is often prescribed for elderly folk suffering from edema (swollen ankles, for example) so it makes sense.

[LBJ10]

Yes, parsley is a diuretic. The pattern being described makes sense. I think it’s probably normal. Perhaps he’s just holding his pee too long? He’s probably not expecting to have to pee that bad after eating the parsley and then it’s a gusher when he finally does go.

[Azerane]

Posted By Q8bunny on 10/16/2016 9:46 PM

Parsley infusion is often prescribed for elderly folk suffering from edema (swollen ankles, for example) so it makes sense.

Well I can’t be expected to know that since I’m not an elderly folk

The gushing pee could just be from it being held too long. Luna did one of those, I couldn’t believe how much pee there was, then 1 minute later she peed again!

[Ellie from The Netherlands]

I think we found the culprit then It was hard to pin down, because we always make a mix of herbs and veg. He loves parsley, and we occasionally mix it in with his greens. I never thought that could lead to problems like these.

Of course we’ll keep monitoring Breintje over the next weeks, see if he continues to do well.

[Q8bunny]

Az: I know you’re a sprightly whippersnapper. Was just imparting trivia in case anyone out there has elderly relatives or swollen ankles or both

[Ellie from The Netherlands]

Hmmm, if only it was a simple problem… The symptoms were not noticeable for some days, but reemerged today. Breintje did 3 wees outside of his litterbox, one gigantic wee all over our leather couch, and he drank 200 mL in 12 hours today. Urine is clear again. He has  also been ravenous the last couple of days, stealing everything from our hands: crackers, fruit, biscuits, anything…

Back to the vet with you mister… I’m going to try and collect a sample from his urine. My BF and I are discussing whether this is an absolute emergency or if it can wait until monday. What do you all think?

Pfff, why do buns always have to get ill on friday evenings?? I’m alone this weekend because Bas is out LARP-ing, I have trouble walking and I have no way to transport Breintje to a vet.

 

Update: I managed to get a urine sample by cleaning out his litter tray and keeping him in his cage with the empty tray in. I caught him drinking his own urine, something that I’ve seen him do more often over the last few weeks. The urine was very light in colour, with a tiny bit of white powder sediment on the bottom.

[vanessa]

Bladder sludge? Perhaps a sonogram or an x-ray of his urinary tract?

[Q8bunny]

I’m sorry he’s symptomatic again, Ellie.
As long as he is acting like himself in the eating/poo department, I would think it can wait until Monday. But ultimately, you know your little guy best: what do your instincts tell you?
Strange pees are usually either hormone or UTI/kidney related, and at least one of those things doesn’t apply to Breintje. Your doc can probably run some tests to check on the other. Vets can also press on the bun’s tum a certain way to get fresh pee so no worries about that.
I’m almost wondering if it’s something diet or environment related… could he have developed a sensitivity to something he’s nibbling on either legally or illegally?

[Ellie from The Netherlands]

He’s eating fine, and being his hyperactive self. I talked to my BF over the phone this morning and we’ll wait until monday, unless Breintje gets worse. He hasn’t been overdoing his drinking today. He kept me up last night because of his worrying peeing, so I refilled his water crock at 03:00 to measure his drinking. Now at 18:00 he’s drank approx. 35% of the water. This is 70 mL in 15 hours, which is pretty normal for him.

I’m putting him back on strictly hay, pellets and water. No more fruit, veg, treats or herbs until we have more clarity. Or less clarity (regarding the pee)…

[Ellie from The Netherlands]

We just returned from the vet, she did a urinalysis and a very thorough belly exam. She was just as baffled as I: there are no indications that anything is wrong. Urinalysis was normal, no blood, no signs of infection, no sugar (diabetes-test), and the urine clarity was in the normal range according to all charts. The only things she found were some crystals, but that happens more often in rabbit urine. She asked if he has a saltlick in his cage, which he doesn’t. He doesn’t get a lot of crazy food either. Occasionally he steals a small nibble from a biscuit, but that shouldn’t upset his salt balance.

Belly exam revealed no sensitive points in bladder or kidneys, so chances are low that it’s kidney stones or a UTI. She said that so many things can cause a bunny to drink more: changes in temperature, stress, minor belly aches. It’s true that the temperature in the house has changed: the heater is on again, because my rheumatism is acting up fiercely. She adviced us to keep him on the hay and pellets alone, and to see if there are changes. If the problems persist or get worse they’ll take him in for a day to do some major tests like bloodworks, parasite checks and x-rays.

My little fluff was so upset about going to the vet, he just wouldn’t be calmed. What made matters worse is the new transport cage my BF bought. It’s much larger and heavier, and more difficult to balance on the luggage carrier of the bicycle. Because it’s so large Breintje has more room to run aroundin it, making it difficult to balance. I held it there with one hand and walked next to my bike, but it slid off despite the luggage sling I used. Luckily it only was a 20 minute walk, but it was very stressful for him. Sorry :'(

In the vets office he kept jumping up on me, and he jumped so hard onto my shoulder that he hit my jaw and rattled my teeth together. Eventually I zippered him up in my vest, and tied my shawl tightly underneath him, like those slings they use to carry a baby. He sat there calmly for the rest of the visit. The vets assistants were totally in love and mooning over him. On my way home, and I walked with my bike in one hand and the other hand protectively around my bun in my vest. The empty cage kept slipping off the luggage carrier, but luckily a friendly old man had some tie-wraps with him. We tied the blasted thing down, and I couldn’t thank him enough. The rest of the walk was a breeze, and Breintje sat calmly in my vest with his head poking out, enjoying the fresh autumn air. It seems we found a new way to transport him ^_^

[LBJ10]

Aww, poor baby. Well, at least there isn’t anything obviously wrong. This is a mystery though.

[LittlePuffyTail]

I’m glad there is nothing obviously wrong but can understand the frustration at not having any answers.

[Author]

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