Cecals again

[sarahthegemini]

Hi guys, I’m dealing with excess cecals again. I usually only see one or two in the litter tray every couple of weeks or so, nothing major but over the last couple of weeks I’ve seen probably around 10 which seems like a huge increase. Four or five of those was in one night. I’m almost 100% certain that they’re Peanut’s. 

I’m not sure what to do. They get half a teaspoon of probiotic pellets in the morning, 2x fibafirst sticks in the evening and then one or two pieces of dried chicory root as a treat. They usually also get dandelion for our evening game and leaves and flowers on their hay before bed to forage. I’ve skipped the dandelion and other forage for a few days though and the chicory root to see if that settles things but no luck.

Of course they have hay 24/7. Oxbow Orchard and Oat hay. I was giving them Burns oat hay but have just switched to oat from timothyhay.co.uk which is much better quality. They don’t get veggies as it gives then awfully gurgly tummies. As you can see, they don’t have a diet that’s too rich so I’m a bit lost  

They had gurgling tummies yesterday afternoon, yesterday at about 5am and the morning before but it stopped on its own and both were pooping and eating and acting normal but it was a little concerning still. Not sure if that’s relevant?

Do you guys have any ideas?

[Bunny House]

Have you tried giving them celery or bell pepper as veggies? I know dark veggies usually can affect certain bunnies but lighter ones are okay.

Have they had a new change in their environment ? I know my buns always eat all of their cecals and i only see them laying around if they are sick or nervous.

I would take them to the vet because it could be something under the surface you don’t see, so it gives you a piece of mind

[sarahthegemini]

Nope, I’ve not tried celery or bell pepper. I don’t really see the point as most of their veggies need to be leafy greens so stuff like celery and whatnot needs to be limited anyway. I’m also nervous to add new veggies as Buttercup has a history of stasis

No change in environment. And as I said, behaviour is normal

I’m not really sure I need a vet visit for excess cecals?

[Bunny House]

I know for my buns who have teeth issues, I have to give them a lot of hard veggies so thats why i suggested it. I get that you are nervous, if you ever get the itch to try a veggie with them, you can give them a tiny bite(what you should always do when you introduce a new food) and see how they do. Two of my buns are in stasis right now so I get being scared of them going into it.

Its a personal opinion, you can go and see if anything is wrong or keep them at home and if anything changes then get them to a vet. I know usually extra cecals is from an excess in veggies but since you don’t really give them any, I don’t know what else to say. I hope they get better!

[Red]

Have you tried switching the food at all? I had one bunny that was really messy on oxbow. I think he might have had a sensitivity or something to the wheat or soy, because once I switched him to a soy and wheat free food (Sherwood) he cleared up.

[MountainBuns]

Maybe that could be it, nice thinking Red.

[sarahthegemini]

I’m a bit reluctant to change their food as they’ve been on the probiotic pellets and fibafirst sticks for quite a while now and I would have thought if those were the culprit, he’d have excess cecals all the time but what do you think?

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Bunny House on 5/26/2018 11:08 AM

I know for my buns who have teeth issues, I have to give them a lot of hard veggies so thats why i suggested it. I get that you are nervous, if you ever get the itch to try a veggie with them, you can give them a tiny bite(what you should always do when you introduce a new food) and see how they do. Two of my buns are in stasis right now so I get being scared of them going into it.

Its a personal opinion, you can go and see if anything is wrong or keep them at home and if anything changes then get them to a vet. I know usually extra cecals is from an excess in veggies but since you don’t really give them any, I don’t know what else to say. I hope they get better!

I remember the first time Buttercup had stasis. It was after giving her the tiniest bit of parsnip It scared me how poorly she was after such a small amount of something new. 

I’d definitely opt for a vet visit if there was other symptoms but so far,  it’s just the cecals and a little gurgling here and there. Could moulting have anything to do with it? Both bunnies are moulting at the moment. Well Buttercup is moulting constantly but you can see ‘moult lines’ now so I’m hoping it’s coming to an end. Peanut has started over the last couple of months. He’s got moult lines too now. So cute 

[Bunny House]

molting wouldn’t cause excess decals-usually only excess veggies cause them. But molting can make them very emotional and act like monsters haha. My lop always molts bad.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Bunny House on 5/26/2018 3:20 PM

molting wouldn’t cause excess decals-usually only excess veggies cause them. But molting can make them very emotional and act like monsters haha. My lop always molts bad.

I was thinking more about the moulting causing the gurgling 

[Bunny House]

Yes it could! trying to pass all that hair can cause some noises

[Azerane]

Sometimes an intolerance to something can happen in waves over time. For example if it’s the pellets affecting them, they might be alright for a little bit and then it builds up to a point where the excess cecals are produced, then things settle down again before building up and going in waves. I don’t know what pellets you’re using, just been having a look at the fibafirst sticks. It could be the alfalfa in them making things a bit rich as it’s the second ingredient Just speculation of course.

An elimination diet would probably sort things out but it would take quite a bit of time given the time frame of the excess cecals. Hay only for a week, then add the pellets back for 2 weeks, then the fibafirst sticks etc

[sarahthegemini]

Thanks Azerane. I’m a bit worried about stopping the probiotic pellets in case their tummies get worse or something. And will they not starve? I know technically if they’ve got hay, they won’t but I’m concerned anyway. I use Protexin by the way

Also, I use the fibafirst sticks as a grooming bribe. Any tips for getting them to keep still with no food to motivate them? Lol.

[Azerane]

I had my pair on hay only for about a month when I was trying to reset Luna’s system due to excess cecals from some pellets we tried. She did lose a little bit of weight, but they certainly didn’t starve.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Azerane on 5/29/2018 5:36 PM

I had my pair on hay only for about a month when I was trying to reset Luna’s system due to excess cecals from some pellets we tried. She did lose a little bit of weight, but they certainly didn’t starve.

That could work in my favour for Buttercup as she is a little overweight. Peanut is so tiny though. He’s apparently ideal weight so I don’t want him to lose any. 

Would stopping the fibafirst sticks leave them malnourished? 

[Bam]

I don’t think they’d be malnourished, but they’d get less calories. If Peanut is a hard keeper, maybe you could sneak him a Fibafirst stick when Buttercup isn’t looking?

Molting can affect the tummy. It’s so very common that bunnies get gas or even the beginnings of stasis when they start a big molt. Somehow molting affects their mood and it’s known that stress hormones can induce changes in the pH in the cecum.

Are the cecals well formed or are they mushy?

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By bam on 5/30/2018 10:01 AM

I don’t think they’d be malnourished, but they’d get less calories. If Peanut is a hard keeper, maybe you could sneak him a Fibafirst stick when Buttercup isn’t looking?

Molting can affect the tummy. It’s so very common that bunnies get gas or even the beginnings of stasis when they start a big molt. Somehow molting affects their mood and it’s known that stress hormones can induce changes in the pH in the cecum.

Are the cecals well formed or are they mushy?

I’d thought about that but Buttercup seems to have a 6th sense. I think I’d only be able to sneakily give Peanut a stick if I shut her in a different room. I’m also not quite 100% certain but I suspect the cecals are Peanut’s so that complicates things.

They’re not mushy but as well as a cluster of grapes, there’s ‘individual’ grapes that have come away if that makes sense. I don’t know whether that’s because they’ve been launched out the litter tray though 

I’ve not got much fur off of Peanut the last few days when I’ve groomed him so I’m hoping he’s coming to the end of his moult!

[Bam]

I just wrote in your gurgling thread and thought I must go check if P&B’s excess cecals are mushy or grape-like. That they are so very well formed strengthens my “suspicion” that this is not something bad.

I know what you mean about the 6th sense. Bam always knows when Effi is about to get a treat ?

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By bam on 5/30/2018 1:46 PM

I just wrote in your gurgling thread and thought I must go check if P&B’s excess cecals are mushy or grape-like. That they are so very well formed strengthens my “suspicion” that this is not something bad.

I know what you mean about the 6th sense. Bam always knows when Effi is about to get a treat ?

Thank you Bam Buttercup is a little treat ninja. At the slightest suspicion, she comes booming over  Can’t get anything past her 

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