Bunny Diagnosed with Pasteuellosis, E. Cunniculi and Blindness

[The Rabbit]

https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/115525/Default.aspx  In this thread i documented some of the neurological issues My Foster bun was going through.

 

We had extensive testing done, anf the vet found that not only is he blind (although they couldn’t find anything not working right in the eye, he’s just blind) He also tested Positive for E. Cunniculi, and Pasteurellosis. The Vet said the combination of the two bateria is causing his issues.

He is currently on panacur (been about a week since he started it).

I have several questions:

 

What issues can I expect to arise in the future?

 

How can i help my bun deal with his symptoms and his blindness?

 Is there anything I can add to his (and my other buns’) diets to build up the immune system?

Should I have him and my other two buns in the same room together? Could they catch the E. Cunniculi? I have heard it is passed through urine, and before he was neutured, my foster bun did spray on my other two buns. Should I be worried?

 

 

 

any help, tips and advice are greatly appreciated.

 

[kralspace]

omg, poor bunny! I have no advice or experience to give you, but others will be along I’m sure, it’s a bit slow on the forums on the weekend as everyone likes to try and get outside. I just wanted to send healing vibes for all of you.

I had a blind/deaf guinea pig and she got great comfort from having a companion helping her get around. She had a good life despite her disabilities.

[jerseygirl]

I think the Pasteurellosis is more the concern for cross infection. You’ll need to check with your vet about that. As for EC, I believe the spores in the urine are only present at the time of infection. (I also read they can be in environment up to a month – but need to recheck on that). But the symptoms of EC don’t usually present until well after the initial infection and the spores have left the body. i.e. rabbits might be exposed while young or even in the womb but symptoms don’t show til their well into adulthood. Apparently lots of rabbits are positive for having been exposed but never present any symptoms.

(((Vibes))) for you foster bun. What’s is his name?
You might want to look over some of KokanneeandKahlua’s threads about Chuck. He was blind and deaf. . He had some head tilt later in life that I think was due to EC. So there are some threads with pictures about how she help him with that.

  Do you know how long your foster bun has been blind at all?  Does he experience any eye issues or discomfort due to the blindness? If no discomfort in the eyes, you might actually find he copes quite well being blind. Now that you know for sure, keep it in mind when you approach him and have to handle him. You may already have been doing that.  You may have already seen that his other senses are well developed also, to compensate for his lack of vision.

I’m sure others experienced will be able to offer more specific advice of what issues to watch for. I’ll be interested to read as I’ve have a 3 month old blind rabbit here with me for a month so I’m learning.

[littlemissflip]

I’m so sorry–poor bun!

Captain Danger has been treated for EC–he had some eye problems last summer, had to see the vetrinary opthamologist, who discovered a cataract in his eye. Cataracts are pretty unusual in one-year-old bunnies, so we did further testing and he tested positive for EC. We treated him with fenbendazole (panacur) for six months (initially daily, then twice a week, then once a week, etc.) and flurbiprofen eye drops. He has now been off the fenbendazole for almost two months, and so far so good!

The thing with EC is that they test for it with antibody titers, which only tells you if the bunny has been exposed to EC at some point in its life. So it’s difificult to diagnose whether EC is really the cause of the symptoms in question–there’s a certain amount of ruling out other possible causes involved in coming to a confident diagnosis that EC is the problem. The other tricky thing is that, according to my vet, they believe that somthing like 80% of North American rabbits have been exposed to EC–so if you test almost any rabbit, they might come back with a positive result for EC, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the EC is causing any problems. Presumably most buns exposed to EC live out their lives without it ever causing problems, and my understanding is that they’re really not sure why EC suddenly causes problems in some buns and not others.

My personal hypothesis (and we don’t have any way to test this) is that Captain Danger’s immune system was compromised last summer because we were treating him for a variety of other problems (we adopted him from someone who must have gotten him from a bad breeder), and that the combination of depressed immpune system, various treatments, and a separate eye issue might have made him more susceptable to the EC infecting his eye and causing the cataract. I have no idea if that’s true or not, but it makes some sense to me.

Now that he’s off treatment, the three things that we watch carefully for as potential signs of a relapse:

1) Any changes in his eye –increased cloudiness, oozing, redness and irritation, etc. (indicates EC infection in the eye)
2) Any signs of head-tilt/paralysis – dizziness, difficulties moving around, falling over (indicates EC infection in the brain)
3) Sudden increase in water consumption (indicates EC infection in the kidneys)

Hope this helps! Good luck with everything!

[Tate]

As for building up an immune system- much like us, when we get any kind of infection or multiple infections at once, it’s a sign that something is off balance. Load up on veggies (organic if you can, as the vitamins are more readily usable) and consider adding in a probiotic supplement like Bene-Bac (a powder you can sprinkle over veggies) or Critter Be Better (comes in both powder and pellets). It’s debatable if these probiotics even do anything, as the microflora they contain don’t naturally exist in the rabbit gut, but I swear by them… They will combat any toxins that may be in your rabbit and thus, it frees up the immune system to move onto other things.

ETA: After doing some research (Hi, I’m Tate and I’m having some serious school separation anxiety and need to constantly and compulsively research things) I can add a few things. Pasteurella bacteria always live in the rabbit gut. Under stress (like another infection) they get out of control and take over the gut. It’s a similar relationship we have to e.coli. Once it gets under control, make sure to keep the litter box clean… you may have to clean it more often than you do now. Also, if you have a humidifier or would be willing to get one, keeping your rabbits in 50-60% humidity can keep Pasteurella bacteria in check. 

As for caring for a blind rabbit, these are tips from Kathy Smith, who wrote Rabbit Health in the 21st Century. 

1.) keep the cage/room as consistent as possible. Don’t move things around unless they pose some danger to the rabbit.

2.) If your blind bun has a buddy, the buddy will often act as a seeing eye rabbit, helping Blind Bun navigate. 

3.) Reduce clutter, re-route human traffic (ie, don’t put bunny’s living area next to the front door), and minimize sharp furniture corners. 

4.) If you have to move the bun’s habitat, try to keep the same layout.

5.) Reduce quick movements/loud noises around Blind Bunny. 

6.) Always talk to your rabbit and as a general rule, stimulate his other senses. Talk to him a lot in soothing tones and give lots of pets if he allows you to. Encourage him to smell… Get a 3 sided cardboard box and fill it with shredded newspaper and some hay. He’ll want to forage for the hay using his sense of smell. 

7.) Don’t pick him up unless necessary. 

8.) Try to be consistent in shampoos, lotions, etc that YOU use. Smell will be a significant way for him to identify you. 

[The Rabbit]

Posted By jerseygirl on 06/26/2011 02:58 AM

I think the Pasteurellosis is more the concern for cross infection. You’ll need to check with your vet about that. As for EC, I believe the spores in the urine are only present at the time of infection. (I also read they can be in environment up to a month – but need to recheck on that). But the symptoms of EC don’t usually present until well after the initial infection and the spores have left the body. i.e. rabbits might be exposed while young or even in the womb but symptoms don’t show til their well into adulthood. Apparently lots of rabbits are positive for having been exposed but never present any symptoms.

(((Vibes))) for you foster bun. What’s is his name?
You might want to look over some of KokanneeandKahlua’s threads about Chuck. He was blind and deaf. . He had some head tilt later in life that I think was due to EC. So there are some threads with pictures about how she help him with that.

  Do you know how long your foster bun has been blind at all?  Does he experience any eye issues or discomfort due to the blindness? If no discomfort in the eyes, you might actually find he copes quite well being blind. Now that you know for sure, keep it in mind when you approach him and have to handle him. You may already have been doing that.  You may have already seen that his other senses are well developed also, to compensate for his lack of vision.

I’m sure others experienced will be able to offer more specific advice of what issues to watch for. I’ll be interested to read as I’ve have a 3 month old blind rabbit here with me for a month so I’m learning.

 

 

His Name is Fiver, But I often Call him Niblett. He nibbles things to help him sense what they are. His eyes don’t seem to bother him, but the pupil will often switch back and forth prety rapidly from being quite large to quite small. His sense of smell is amazing. He can smell whatever it is i’m bringing him long before the other bunnies do.

 

Pixel, my bonded male, Had a case of the snuffles just a bit before we got Fiver. He was on meds for a few weeks. I’m pretty sure it was the pasteurella, so him and Zelda Bun should already have been exposed.

[The Rabbit]

Posted By littlemissflip on 06/26/2011 11:28 AM
I’m so sorry–poor bun!

Captain Danger has been treated for EC–he had some eye problems last summer, had to see the vetrinary opthamologist, who discovered a cataract in his eye. Cataracts are pretty unusual in one-year-old bunnies, so we did further testing and he tested positive for EC. We treated him with fenbendazole (panacur) for six months (initially daily, then twice a week, then once a week, etc.) and flurbiprofen eye drops. He has now been off the fenbendazole for almost two months, and so far so good!

The thing with EC is that they test for it with antibody titers, which only tells you if the bunny has been exposed to EC at some point in its life. So it’s difificult to diagnose whether EC is really the cause of the symptoms in question–there’s a certain amount of ruling out other possible causes involved in coming to a confident diagnosis that EC is the problem. The other tricky thing is that, according to my vet, they believe that somthing like 80% of North American rabbits have been exposed to EC–so if you test almost any rabbit, they might come back with a positive result for EC, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the EC is causing any problems. Presumably most buns exposed to EC live out their lives without it ever causing problems, and my understanding is that they’re really not sure why EC suddenly causes problems in some buns and not others.

My personal hypothesis (and we don’t have any way to test this) is that Captain Danger’s immune system was compromised last summer because we were treating him for a variety of other problems (we adopted him from someone who must have gotten him from a bad breeder), and that the combination of depressed immpune system, various treatments, and a separate eye issue might have made him more susceptable to the EC infecting his eye and causing the cataract. I have no idea if that’s true or not, but it makes some sense to me.

Now that he’s off treatment, the three things that we watch carefully for as potential signs of a relapse:

1) Any changes in his eye –increased cloudiness, oozing, redness and irritation, etc. (indicates EC infection in the eye)
2) Any signs of head-tilt/paralysis – dizziness, difficulties moving around, falling over (indicates EC infection in the brain)
3) Sudden increase in water consumption (indicates EC infection in the kidneys)

Hope this helps! Good luck with everything!

 

 

Poor Captain danger! (what a great name!) I didn’t even think about it until you mentioned it, but He drinks a lot more water than my other two. A lot. He’ll go through a regular sized bottle in a day/ day and a half. It slowed for awhile then started back up. Could that be a warning sign?

[The Rabbit]

Posted By Tate on 06/26/2011 11:43 AM

As for building up an immune system- much like us, when we get any kind of infection or multiple infections at once, it’s a sign that something is off balance. Load up on veggies (organic if you can, as the vitamins are more readily usable) and consider adding in a probiotic supplement like Bene-Bac (a powder you can sprinkle over veggies) or Critter Be Better (comes in both powder and pellets). It’s debatable if these probiotics even do anything, as the microflora they contain don’t naturally exist in the rabbit gut, but I swear by them… They will combat any toxins that may be in your rabbit and thus, it frees up the immune system to move onto other things.

ETA: After doing some research (Hi, I’m Tate and I’m having some serious school separation anxiety and need to constantly and compulsively research things) I can add a few things. Pasteurella bacteria always live in the rabbit gut. Under stress (like another infection) they get out of control and take over the gut. It’s a similar relationship we have to e.coli. Once it gets under control, make sure to keep the litter box clean… you may have to clean it more often than you do now. Also, if you have a humidifier or would be willing to get one, keeping your rabbits in 50-60% humidity can keep Pasteurella bacteria in check. 

As for caring for a blind rabbit, these are tips from Kathy Smith, who wrote Rabbit Health in the 21st Century. 

1.) keep the cage/room as consistent as possible. Don’t move things around unless they pose some danger to the rabbit.

2.) If your blind bun has a buddy, the buddy will often act as a seeing eye rabbit, helping Blind Bun navigate. 

3.) Reduce clutter, re-route human traffic (ie, don’t put bunny’s living area next to the front door), and minimize sharp furniture corners. 

4.) If you have to move the bun’s habitat, try to keep the same layout.

5.) Reduce quick movements/loud noises around Blind Bunny. 

6.) Always talk to your rabbit and as a general rule, stimulate his other senses. Talk to him a lot in soothing tones and give lots of pets if he allows you to. Encourage him to smell… Get a 3 sided cardboard box and fill it with shredded newspaper and some hay. He’ll want to forage for the hay using his sense of smell. 

7.) Don’t pick him up unless necessary. 

8.) Try to be consistent in shampoos, lotions, etc that YOU use. Smell will be a significant way for him to identify you. 

 

 

Wow. Thanks for all that advice! I’ll get him a 3 sided box right away, That’s a wonderful Idea! Do you think that should be his litter box from now on, or just as a helpful tool? He gets very scared when picked up or if i put his box back, and have to readjust it’s location.  I’ll have to remind my mom, not to use too much strange smelling lotion. I live with her (But the buns are in my room, and I pay for them) and she helps keep him steady when we have to give hi his meds.

 

also, a general note, his pee smells very very strong. I’ve never smelled anything quite like it. I had attributed it to the Hormones before he was neutured, but  now he’s still having it. Sometimes he’ll go and the whole room will fill up with the scent. Is that a sign of anything?

[littlemissflip]

Posted By The Rabbit on 06/26/2011 05:46 PM

Poor Captain danger! (what a great name!) I didn’t even think about it until you mentioned it, but He drinks a lot more water than my other two. A lot. He’ll go through a regular sized bottle in a day/ day and a half. It slowed for awhile then started back up. Could that be a warning sign?

 

It’s possible… if he had EC infection long-enough/advanced enough to cause blindness, it might be in his kidneys as well?  I think the treatment (panacur) would be the same, regardless, so it might be worth paying attention to whether he starts to drink a little less over the course of his treatment. And obviously it wouldn’t hurt to mention that to the vets…    I can’t really compare to Capt. Danger, because he’s not much of a water drinker to begin with… I guess if he suddenly starts drinking ANY water (as opposed to getting it from his veggies), we’ll start paying close attention to that!

Oh and thanks for the compliment on Capt. Danger’s name.  We proposed it as a joke and couldn’t stop giggling about it, so the name stuck

[KatnipCrzy]

I would recommend asking the vet these questions also- they might be able to provide more insight from a medical point of view. And once you combine that with the BB members personal experiences and research that should give you the best possible answers!

[Tate]

Posted By The Rabbit on 06/26/2011 05:53 PM

Wow. Thanks for all that advice! I’ll get him a 3 sided box right away, That’s a wonderful Idea! Do you think that should be his litter box from now on, or just as a helpful tool? He gets very scared when picked up or if i put his box back, and have to readjust it’s location.  I’ll have to remind my mom, not to use too much strange smelling lotion. I live with her (But the buns are in my room, and I pay for them) and she helps keep him steady when we have to give hi his meds.

 also, a general note, his pee smells very very strong. I’ve never smelled anything quite like it. I had attributed it to the Hormones before he was neutured, but  now he’s still having it. Sometimes he’ll go and the whole room will fill up with the scent. Is that a sign of anything?

I wouldn’t have the dig box as his litter box. I keep mine separate, that way you don’t have a big hay/shredded paper/pee mess. As for the urine smell, it’s hard to say… The smell would concern me, as sometimes it can mean a UTI. Could you get your vet to do a urinalysis? When I got one done for my rabbit, I just put much less litter in his litter box so the urine wasn’t soaked up all the way and I used a feeding syringe to suck it up. That way you only have to pay for the test, not the procedure to get the urine.

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