bunny bites. why? and how to fix!

[binky777]

I’m fostering an adult bunny (age unknown).  She was in a pretty bad situation before being seized by animal control.  She was spayed last week.  She’s picked up litter training very well.  After a few nervous days she’s getting much more comfortable, but she’s started to bite and I’m not sure how to fix it, especially as I’m not sure what is causing it.  She’s not very aggressive as far as I can tell.  I’ll open the cage door and go sit down on the couch.  She’ll hop out after a few seconds and cautiously explore for a bit, then hop up to me tentatively and sniff once or twice.  Then most (not all) of the time she’ll bite me and then pull back a bit.  Often hard enough to leave a red mark though she hasn’t caused me to bleed yet.  I’m calm and not making any sudden movements before/after she bites.  If I put her up on the couch and let her explore, she’ll always bite within a few minutes–often digging in my lap right before.  She behaves the same way towards other people.

I’m confident she isn’t going to cause me serious injury, but obviously I’d like to stop the behavior.  What do I do??

Thanks!

[Sarita]

Spaying will help but it may not totally stop the behavior – it usually takes the hormones a good month to settle down after a spay or neuter too.

Alot will be a matter of you observing what might be causing this behavior. If she’s biting you when she hops on you, it is possible she is communicating something – like you are in the way – I know it doesn’t seem totally logical, but she is trying to tell you something.

I have a rabbit who is a biter and it’s taken a long time but he has gotten better. He is free range and that has helped alot – I think he’s extremely smart but I do know some of his past aggressions have come from not feeling well – he has dental problems. Sometimes medical problems can be the reason for this behavior too.

[binky777]

Posted By Sarita on 10/21/2010 01:32 PM
Spaying will help but it may not totally stop the behavior – it usually takes the hormones a good month to settle down after a spay or neuter too.

Alot will be a matter of you observing what might be causing this behavior. If she’s biting you when she hops on you, it is possible she is communicating something – like you are in the way – I know it doesn’t seem totally logical, but she is trying to tell you something.

I have a rabbit who is a biter and it’s taken a long time but he has gotten better. He is free range and that has helped alot – I think he’s extremely smart but I do know some of his past aggressions have come from not feeling well – he has dental problems. Sometimes medical problems can be the reason for this behavior too.

Thanks for the reply.  Like I said she was spayed before arriving but it’s only been ten days.  Heh, yeah it’s very hard for me to understand what she is trying to communicate when she is free to wander and chooses to hop up to me and bite! She was examined by a vet at the shelter and besides being a little underweight and in dire need of nail trimming–both since fixed–she seemed ok.  Could this be some sort of dominance thing?

[Sarita]

It could be a dominance thing. You may want to respond to her by petting her and telling her what a good rabbit she is when she does this – I know it seems counter intuitive but sometimes super affection reassures these types of rabbits.

[Elrohwen]

My female will dig at pants and then bite – she’s not aggressive in any other way and I’m confident that she doesn’t know there’s skin under those pants (she’ll dig at blankets in the same way). I don’t think your foster bun is trying to be aggressive either. She probably wants you to move out of the way, or maybe she just thinks it’s fun to dig and play on your clothes and doesn’t realize that there’s a person under there. I would make a high pitched sound when she does it to show that it has hurt you and is unacceptable. Just do it loud enough to make her stop and look at you, but not loud enough to freak her out and scare her away.

[lwayne]

yeah I agree with what other’s have said. She’s probably just trying to play with you (aka wants attention) or even try to ‘groom’ you! My rex still bites/nips all the time, I think she just wants attention and to play.

[nugget]

Agreed…..Oliver will sit with me for 10 minutes while I pet him, but as soon as I stop he gently nips me to let me know I’m not done yet.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Well I want to thank you on the bunnies behalf for fostering such a bunny who is in need!!!

You will not fix the biting overnight-it will take time.

I would strongly strongly suggest not using an aversives as punishment-like rattling a can, or a spray of water, or yelling no. I’m thinking she’s nervous, unconfident and trying to get you before you get her…

Now what you would do depends on the bite. If it’s her coming up to you kind of casually and gently nibbling it could be just grooming solicitation. (in which case ignore for a minute and then pet when she’s being appropriate)
Or if she’s coming up and nibbling your toes and running off, she might want you to chase her. (in which case if you don’t mind, you can chase her like a goof saying ‘I’m gonnnnnna get you!’)

But I suspect she’s doing more of a lunge bite that’s a real bite, and that’s why your concerned? For this, I wouldn’t react at all. If you react to jerk back-you are reinforcing her-I bite this scary person and they go away. And if you yell no or similar action-you are reinforcing her idea that you are scary and unpredicatable. So I would-as best as you can-ignore it. If you have to get welding gloves and snow pants but don’t give her a reaction and just be steady and dependable and only a source of treats, petting (if she likes this) and calmness. Let her take her time getting to trust you-and she will.

[RabbitPam]

I’m also thinking you could try beating her to the punch by noticing when she starts to dig, and then at that moment, pet her before she bites. If it is attention getting, and a desire to interact with you, she may have learned that it isn’t until she sets her teeth that her needs are met. So if you say hello immediately and begin petting, she might not progress to the point of a “Hey, you, I’m talkin’ to you!” bite. If that works, she’ll learn it is no longer needed and possibly taper off the frequency of the nips.

[Elrohwen]

K&K, I have to disagree that she’s lunging in a defensive mode – from the description it sounds more like attention getting or just trying to bite at clothing. If it were a lunge, I would think it would happen at other times, especially when binky777 puts her hand into the cage or something – not just during couch time. In my experience with this type of nipping, ignoring just encourages it – if I ignore Hannah when she digs at my pants and nips me, she doesn’t realize that she’s actually hurting me and she’ll do it over and over. If I’m wrong and it is a defensive lunge, then I agree with your suggestions.

[bunny-yawns]

Posted By Sarita on 10/21/2010 02:01 PM
It could be a dominance thing. You may want to respond to her by petting her and telling her what a good rabbit she is when she does this – I know it seems counter intuitive but sometimes super affection reassures these types of rabbits.

This works!!!  I’ve tried it with Maddie and it works.  She likes to play the tough guy, but once she realises that I’m going to pet her anyway she melts.   

[cactuspancake]

Tonight Franz was being mad cute and cuddling on the floor with me.. Then he was sitting on me and grabbed one of my beltloops and was full force trying to rip it off. I said no, diverted his head and then snuggled and then tried to rip my shirt off and bit a whole in my pants! He’s being a snuggle bunny and doesn’t bite but I think he is trying to play/ groom but it’s rough on my clothes. Also he eats my hair when he grooms it lol I hear munching

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

&K, I have to disagree that she’s lunging in a defensive mode – from the description it sounds more like attention getting or just trying to bite at clothing. If it were a lunge, I would think it would happen at other times, especially when binky777 puts her hand into the cage or something – not just during couch time. In my experience with this type of nipping, ignoring just encourages it – if I ignore Hannah when she digs at my pants and nips me, she doesn’t realize that she’s actually hurting me and she’ll do it over and over. If I’m wrong and it is a defensive lunge, then I agree with your suggestions

That’s why I tried to qualify my response with different biting ‘modes’ AS in, if this try this

But I do want to address what you brought up because it is important in applying learning theory to extinguishing behavior….

Ignoring a behavior and then responding just makes the behavior worse (i.e. more ingrained, reinforced, repeated etc.).

A behavior on a variable schedule will extinguish slower than a behavior on a fixed schedule. So in the case of you saying ignoring it encourages it…actually what’s needed is just ignoring it longer. Extinguishing behavior means not reinforcing it at all no matter what. Not giving in when it’s intolerable. An animal responding to a variable schedule will inevitably respond with an ‘extinction burst’ (i.e. doing what worked before but which isn’t working now…like biting and lunging only more so!!!) which is likely what you experienced and decided it wasn’t working-if you hold out past that burst-the behavior will in fact extinguish. In fact, any behavior that does not result in reward  (+ or -) for a long time will extinguish.

[jerseygirl]

ha. I think K&K, you may have just described some of my errors in correcting Jerseys peeing on the floor…
My need to ignore it longer.

An animal responding to a variable schedule will inevitably respond with an ‘extinction burst’

I think I’ve seen this “extinction burst”. But by “variable schedule” do you mean variable in response to the behaviour? Or variable in length of time of ignoring it? *confused*

[RabbitPam]

I think K&K means variable in terms of intermittent or periodic in the behavior, and subsequently the former response. As in, I always get a snack when I go to bed (fixed), vs. I sometimes get a yell and then a head pet when I chew on the coffee table like this (variable). The yell and the pet both need to stop and just ignore it completely, which makes the chew on coffee table behavior “extinguish.”

Timing is everything. I just picked up my big clicker behavior book that I bought after K&K recommended it, and it is so fascinating. I was just in the later chapters on combating the old punishment style of training, how long things take, what works, what works faster and why. It’s really cool. Especially the way you can train with positive reinforcement (clicker) until just one time you “contaminate” the training cue with a punishment, then it won’t work right after that. So cool.

[jerseygirl]

Thanks RabbitPam. The scenarios you gave helped alot.

I’m concerned about this chewing on the coffee table business though. Perhaps you need more fibre in your diet?

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

ha. I think K&K, you may have just described some of my errors in correcting Jerseys peeing on the floor…
My need to ignore it longer

LOL Trust me-it’s easier to say ignore the behavior then to actually do it

 

I think I’ve seen this “extinction burst”. But by “variable schedule” do you mean variable in response to the behaviour? Or variable in length of time of ignoring it? *confused*

 What an AWESOME question!!!!

There are four types of schedules…fixed and variable and those rely on either schedule of reinforcement(ratio) or schedule of time(interval). So you can go fixed time=reward, fixed response=reward, variable time=reward, variable response=reward. Each produces a different and distinct pattern of response!!!

 The most ingrained (i.e. produces the strongest result) is a variable ratio-you give a reward unpredictably for responding to the cue-(ie. not time, you have to respond-do the ‘thing’-a variable number of times to get a reward)-this is what is seen in gambling. There is no telling how much response (putting coins in the machine) will be required to be rewarded (winning) -and this schedule produces not only the strongest response (more doing of the ‘thing’) but also the hardest to extinguish. This is why trainers will often say use food reinforcement, but don’t give food every time they do what they should (i.e. tell the dog to roll over, dog rolls over-you give a treat sometimes every second roll over, sometimes every fifth etc.).

Check out the schedules here: (sorry troglodytee here-have to copy and paste this link!)

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.edpsycinteractive.org/topics/images/schrein.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.edpsycinteractive.org/topics/behsys/operant.html&usg=__IyJi1rbUIE70TOPnZbRQXUEn5es=&h=309&w=404&sz=8&hl=en&start=3&sig2=QoKOTIr5GsUVl5-sLGshxg&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=WoH3GKinJpkipM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dreinforcement%2Bschedules%2Bfixed%2Bvariable%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-ca:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7GZAZ_en%26biw%3D1099%26bih%3D554%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=CffMTNLDB86bnwfe26zLDw

 

Timing is everything

THAT Is worth screaming from rooftops!!! That’s sooo the key!

 

I just picked up my big clicker behavior book that I bought after K&K recommended it, and it is so fascinating. I was just in the later chapters on combating the old punishment style of training, how long things take, what works, what works faster and why. It’s really cool. Especially the way you can train with positive reinforcement (clicker) until just one time you “contaminate” the training cue with a punishment, then it won’t work right after that. So cool.

You are making me grin SO BIG!!! I’m guessing the book is Karen Pryor ‘clicker training-reaching the animal mind’ ?

[jerseygirl]

I’m sort of grasping bits of this. Mostly my understanding is “variable” shall we say? Actually, I don’t even understand what is supposedly ‘awesome” about my question!

I think I need to to some background reading on the basics. I find I pick up concepts better when I’m immersed in the language for a bit beforehand. I have a feeling that link you pasted is not beginners level?   I’m too scared to open it… hehe!

@ binky777, I’m very sorry. I believe I’ve hijacked your thread!

[Lintini]

Indy will nip at me and then dig, that is how he lets me know he wants to be pet. If I stop petting him before HE is done getting pet, then I get more digs, my finger tossed, or a nip on the hand. His routine is to hop on my bed in the middle of the night and do this. He’s just lucky he’s a doll and I would do anything for him, even it that means having a finger tossed at 3am to pet him.

[Elrohwen]

Posted By Kokaneeandkahlua on 10/30/2010 02:49 AM

&K, I have to disagree that she’s lunging in a defensive mode – from the description it sounds more like attention getting or just trying to bite at clothing. If it were a lunge, I would think it would happen at other times, especially when binky777 puts her hand into the cage or something – not just during couch time. In my experience with this type of nipping, ignoring just encourages it – if I ignore Hannah when she digs at my pants and nips me, she doesn’t realize that she’s actually hurting me and she’ll do it over and over. If I’m wrong and it is a defensive lunge, then I agree with your suggestions

That’s why I tried to qualify my response with different biting ‘modes’ AS in, if this try this

But I do want to address what you brought up because it is important in applying learning theory to extinguishing behavior….

Ignoring a behavior and then responding just makes the behavior worse (i.e. more ingrained, reinforced, repeated etc.).

A behavior on a variable schedule will extinguish slower than a behavior on a fixed schedule. So in the case of you saying ignoring it encourages it…actually what’s needed is just ignoring it longer. Extinguishing behavior means not reinforcing it at all no matter what. Not giving in when it’s intolerable. An animal responding to a variable schedule will inevitably respond with an ‘extinction burst’ (i.e. doing what worked before but which isn’t working now…like biting and lunging only more so!!!) which is likely what you experienced and decided it wasn’t working-if you hold out past that burst-the behavior will in fact extinguish. In fact, any behavior that does not result in reward  (+ or -) for a long time will extinguish.

I agree with the theory completely, but I also think that sometimes ignoring doesn’t work if the act of digging and nipping itself is fun and no reward is desired other than that The reward can just be allowing it to continue by ignoring. I guess I would qualify ignoring with whether you should get up and walk away while ignoring, or stay put and ignore. In this case, I think walking away works, or making the bunny get off the couch for a bit.

[Sarita]

I don’t think you should ignore a rabbit who is fearful. I think you need to respond in a positive nature. You need to soothe a fearful rabbit.

I think the textbook stuff is fine but it doesn’t tell someone a whole heck of alot in real life. Personal experience always trump textbook stuff. Okay, don’t tell my professor I said that :~)

[Denise12]

I’m also having a hard time w/Buster biting alot. She seems to always find my skin though…like if my shirt was riding up in the back and my lower back was showing…CHOMP. So hard too
Don’t know what to do except praise her w/a raisin when she’s good and actually is licking me or my pants

[Author]

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